King's #5 & #10 for Fox?

[JCSunsfan]

Who is PHI's man? They just came out and said they plan on starting Simmons at PG so they should have their choice of a wing (Jackson /Tatum).

They really need a SG who can shoot lights out. They don't have anyone to spread the floor for them. Monk is the logical choice, but so many mocks have Monk going 5-8 most fans don't believe he should be picked at the 3. Of course, that is silly. If he is the best player available for your team and right there with the others as the BPA, you pick 'em and to h with the mocks.

It's funny how, at this time of year, fans take mock drafts as some real valuation of a player's true draft value. Most of those mocks are based on some media person looking at other mocks. Its an exercise in groupthink.

 

[Matt L]

They really need a SG who can shoot lights out. They don't have anyone to spread the floor for them. Monk is the logical choice, but so many mocks have Monk going 5-8 most fans don't believe he should be picked at the 3. Of course, that is silly. If he is the best player available for your team and right there with the others as the BPA, you pick 'em and to h with the mocks.

It's funny how, at this time of year, fans take mock drafts as some real valuation of a player's true draft value. Most of those mocks are based on some media person looking at other mocks. Its an exercise in groupthink.

Monk makes sense for them and he could really flourish in Philadelphia.

 

[Raze]

Rumor has it today that that the Kings are "infatuated" with Fox and are willing to deal #5 and #10. It's interesting because one way or another this affects the Suns. If Philly deals the pick and Fox is selected then Jackson falls in our laps OR the suns deal #4 for #5 & #10.


I'd be interested in getting two top 10 picks for our #4...just sayin'

This is a no brainer. You have to take that deal. Fox is a good prospect, but he isn't THAT good.

First off, Ryan should start leaking information that they are "talking" to other teams about a trade back because those teams are interested in jumping Sac to take Fox. This will at least give the impression that he's a real option at #4 fueling the fire for Sac to trade. I'm not sure we should too much personal interest in Fox, because that will cause teams to want to jump us and trade with Philly. We need to do everything we can to sell the idea that Fox is going #4.

Assuming Fultz and Ball go first, then even if Fox goes #3, we get Jackson. That's still a win.

However, if all the stars align and neither Fox or Jackson go #3, then we call Sac, tell them we're taking Fox at #4, then trade them for #5 and #10. We might have to "sweeten" the pot a bit, so we offer them BK and #4. If they're dumb enough to trade for #4, then they're dumb enough to trade for BK. That gets rid of a headache and we get 2 great prospects.

At #5, we jump all over Jackson. A great fit and incredible prospect.
If he goes earlier, then we take Isaac.

At #10 we take Zach Collins at C (Very good prospect. A legit low post presence)
or Dennis Smith at PG (High risk, high reward)
or Justin Patton at C. (There's a lot to like with him. Shows good post presence.)

We trade Bledsoe. Seriously, I'd give him up for future picks right now. His value has probably peaked and we aren't winning anything with him. I'd even consider packaging up EB and #10 to move up in this draft AND get future picks. What is he really going to do for us now? And, will he stay injury free anyway? One more thing to consider, this team needs to be Booker's. It will never be his with EB on the team.

Say we land Smith, then we go into the season starting:

PG Smith
SG Booker
SF Jackson
PF Chriss
C Len

Our top subs are:

Warren
Ulis
Bender
Chandler
Dudley

That's an incredible nucleus of young talent with depth at each position.

 

[SirStefan32]

This is a no brainer. You have to take that deal. Fox is a good prospect, but he isn't THAT good.

First off, Ryan should start leaking information that they are "talking" to other teams about a trade back because those teams are interested in jumping Sac to take Fox. This will at least give the impression that he's a real option at #4 fueling the fire for Sac to trade. I'm not sure we should too much personal interest in Fox, because that will cause teams to want to jump us and trade with Philly. We need to do everything we can to sell the idea that Fox is going #4.

Assuming Fultz and Ball go first, then even if Fox goes #3, we get Jackson. That's still a win.

However, if all the stars align and neither Fox or Jackson go #3, then we call Sac, tell them we're taking Fox at #4, then trade them for #5 and #10. We might have to "sweeten" the pot a bit, so we offer them BK and #4. If they're dumb enough to trade for #4, then they're dumb enough to trade for BK. That gets rid of a headache and we get 2 great prospects.

At #5, we jump all over Jackson. A great fit and incredible prospect.
If he goes earlier, then we take Isaac.

At #10 we take Zach Collins at C (Very good prospect. A legit low post presence)
or Dennis Smith at PG (High risk, high reward)
or Justin Patton at C. (There's a lot to like with him. Shows good post presence.)

We trade Bledsoe. Seriously, I'd give him up for future picks right now. His value has probably peaked and we aren't winning anything with him. I'd even consider packaging up EB and #10 to move up in this draft AND get future picks. What is he really going to do for us now? And, will he stay injury free anyway? One more thing to consider, this team needs to be Booker's. It will never be his with EB on the team.

Say we land Smith, then we go into the season starting:

PG Smith
SG Booker
SF Jackson
PF Chriss
C Len

Our top subs are:

Warren
Ulis
Bender
Chandler
Dudley

That's an incredible nucleus of young talent with depth at each position.

That is not sweetening the pot. That's poisoning the well.

 

[Suns_fan69]

That is not sweetening the pot. That's poisoning the well.

My thoughts exactly. I can't imagine any team thinking Knight would be a positive addition at this stage.

 

[Chaplin]

My thoughts exactly. I can't imagine any team thinking Knight would be a positive addition at this stage.

And trading Bledsoe for future picks? You just don't do that with a player of his caliber.

 

[Mainstreet]

Who is PHI's man? They just came out and said they plan on starting Simmons at PG so they should have their choice of a wing (Jackson /Tatum).

If I knew who the 76ers want I would be making loads of money.

The 76ers have implied they are willing to trade the #3 pick. If the 76ers draft Jackson this makes sense. Also as JCSunsfan said, Monk makes sense as well.

Right now, a lot of bluffing is going on. I wouldn't be surprised if the 76ers drafted a PG. They are testing the market so who knows who they draft. We will find out if they do not trade the #3 pick.

 

[outcent13]

5 and 10 sounds good but what if Orlando comes with 6, 25 and 33 for 4?

An earlier poster stated that we have to play it right for the trade up but not oversell it(i know the point of this thread is 5&10 for 4) but maybe you really oversell the interest in fox to get someone to trade with Philadelphia if we really want Jackson in the first place.


Finally , if neither guy is your choice then why not trade down (unless you want a vet for the pick) and take the guy you want like Isaac or Tatum. Then you have options with a bunch of extra picks (draft and stash, veteran players, or trade back up for a player they covet) that Ryan can look into.

 

[Hoop Head]

5 and 10 sounds good but what if Orlando comes with 6, 25 and 33 for 4?

It's not even a debate, take the 5 and 10. I think you do the Orlando deal if Sac won't deal and/or the Suns are enamored with someone who will be in the late 1st.

 

[outcent13]

It's not even a debate, take the 5 and 10. I think you do the Orlando deal if Sac won't deal and/or the Suns are enamored with someone who will be in the late 1st.

My thought is definitely only if Orlando won't deal. My bad should have clarified that.

 

[Matt L]

My thought is definitely only if Orlando won't deal. My bad should have clarified that.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say but i think (5 & 10) > (6 & 25 & 33) and i hope the suns feel that way.

I highly doubt Sacramento would make this move but if they did i would pick the following

#5 - Jackson (Isaac would be my backup if Jackson is gone)
#10 - Markannen (Smith/Monk/Zack Collins would be my backups is Markannen is gone)

Top Ten Mock in this dream scenario:

#1 - Fultz - Boston
#2 - Ball - LA Lakers
#3 - Jackson - Philadelphia
#4 - Fox - Sacramento
#5 - Isaac - Phoenix
#6 - Tatum - Orlando
#7 - Monk - Timberwolves
#8 - Smith - NY Knicks
#9 - Markannen - Dallas
#10 - Zack Collins - Phoenix

 

[Raze]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say but i think (5 & 10) > (6 & 25 & 33) and i hope the suns feel that way.

I highly doubt Sacramento would make this move but if they did i would pick the following

#5 - Jackson (Isaac would be my backup if Jackson is gone)
#10 - Markannen (Smith/Monk/Zack Collins would be my backups is Markannen is gone)

Top Ten Mock in this dream scenario:

#1 - Fultz - Boston
#2 - Ball - LA Lakers
#3 - Jackson - Philadelphia
#4 - Fox - Sacramento
#5 - Isaac - Phoenix
#6 - Tatum - Orlando
#7 - Monk - Timberwolves
#8 - Smith - NY Knicks
#9 - Markannen - Dallas
#10 - Zack Collins - Phoenix

This is a solid way of looking at it. Our team is already loaded with young talent. We can afford to add two other top talent prospects at #5 and #10 in this deep draft. I'm not sure that #25 and #33 helps us all that much. I'm not saying it's a terrible trade, just not as good as 5 and 10.

However, if we traded with Orlando we still might get Isaac. I'd then package up 25, 32, 33, and 54 to move up into the draft. The last thing we need is 4 more young players.

Getting Isaac and Collins would be a great haul. We would be EXTREMELY young in our front court, but potentially crazy talented.

 

[Matt L]

This is a solid way of looking at it. Our team is already loaded with young talent. We can afford to add two other top talent prospects at #5 and #10 in this deep draft. I'm not sure that #25 and #33 helps us all that much. I'm not saying it's a terrible trade, just not as good as 5 and 10.

However, if we traded with Orlando we still might get Isaac. I'd then package up 25, 32, 33, and 54 to move up into the draft. The last thing we need is 4 more young players.

Getting Isaac and Collins would be a great haul. We would be EXTREMELY young in our front court, but potentially crazy talented.

I would hope Collins/Isaac/Bender could soak up some knowledge on the defensive end from Chandler and then be a decent front court in 2 years.

 

[Raze]

I would hope Collins/Isaac/Bender could soak up some knowledge on the defensive end from Chandler and then be a decent front court in 2 years.

Ditto.

I would add Frank Ntilikina to the mix at #10. He's a great defender with a ton of game on O. I like players that come in to the game playing both ends of the floor. This kid has: great floor IQ, good natural passing skills, good form on his shot, good enough handles to probe and kick, great propensity for a lock down D at 1 and 2, is already 6-5, and can rise up and finish strong. He for sure has flaws, but he is a multi dimensional player that has amazing upside. If you asked me to tell you which players have superstar potential, he's one of them. I think he goes earlier than 10, but since you didn't have him taken yet, he should be considered.

 

[outcent13]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say but i think (5 & 10) > (6 & 25 & 33) and i hope the suns feel that way.

I highly doubt Sacramento would make this move but if they did i would pick the following

#5 - Jackson (Isaac would be my backup if Jackson is gone)
#10 - Markannen (Smith/Monk/Zack Collins would be my backups is Markannen is gone)

Top Ten Mock in this dream scenario:

#1 - Fultz - Boston
#2 - Ball - LA Lakers
#3 - Jackson - Philadelphia
#4 - Fox - Sacramento
#5 - Isaac - Phoenix
#6 - Tatum - Orlando
#7 - Monk - Timberwolves
#8 - Smith - NY Knicks
#9 - Markannen - Dallas
#10 - Zack Collins - Phoenix

That's what exactly what I mean .

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say but i think (5 & 10) > (6 & 25 & 33) and i hope the suns feel that way.

I highly doubt Sacramento would make this move but if they did i would pick the following

#5 - Jackson (Isaac would be my backup if Jackson is gone)
#10 - Markannen (Smith/Monk/Zack Collins would be my backups is Markannen is gone)

Top Ten Mock in this dream scenario:

#1 - Fultz - Boston
#2 - Ball - LA Lakers
#3 - Jackson - Philadelphia
#4 - Fox - Sacramento
#5 - Isaac - Phoenix
#6 - Tatum - Orlando
#7 - Monk - Timberwolves
#8 - Smith - NY Knicks
#9 - Markannen - Dallas
#10 - Zack Collins - Phoenix

You want to get the best possible player. To me, Fox is WAY better than Isaac. This is a lose scenario to me.

 

[Raze]

You want to get the best possible player. To me, Fox is WAY better than Isaac. This is a lose scenario to me.

Just to be clear I like Fox as a top 10 prospect, but how many 6-3 OGs have been successful? He hasn't really proven that he can pass or shoot. True, the guy can score and defend. In fact he's so good at those that many of us are willing to overlook how poor he is at other aspects of the game.

I don't like his comps. He doesn't have the natural passing ability of Wall or Rondo. He doesn't have the height or weight that you want in an OG that attacks the paint. He doesn't have the reach of Westbrook (7 inches longer at same height). I guess he comps best to Westbrook, but I absolutely hate his game. The guy is the king of ball hogs. His a/g is the biggest smoke and mirror stat of our time. I don't blame Durant one bit for bolting. The last guy on the planet I want next to Booker is another Westbrook.

Fox is most effective when he has the ball in his hands at the top of the key, lowers his shoulders in attack mode, and basically forgets that there are 4 other players on the team. One in ten times he looks to kick it out. Maybe he can learn to pass like Westbrook. Maybe. But even then I'm not a fan of that projection.

I'm saying all this with a strong suspicion that his stats are going to look really good. So yeah, maybe he's the best prospect in that he's going to make us look smart for drafting him. But I just don't think his game translates to championships, especially for the Suns. I'm okay with passing on him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And trading Bledsoe for future picks? You just don't do that with a player of his caliber.

why not? he's not an All-Star, we're not contending for at least 3 or 4 years and in 3 or 4 years, he'll be 32. Why not sell now to continue the rebuild while his value is at it's highest?

I mean, think about this... in 2 years, are you going to want to pay him 30 million per year, which is probably what he'll be able to get at age 30? I sure as hell don't. And if you don't, you're losing him for nothing... or if you try to trade him next year, he won't command as much now because he'll be a one-year rental.

Right now is the best time to trade him.

 

[Chaplin]

why not? he's not an All-Star, we're not contending for at least 3 or 4 years and in 3 or 4 years, he'll be 32. Why not sell now to continue the rebuild while his value is at it's highest?

I mean, think about this... in 2 years, are you going to want to pay him 30 million per year, which is probably what he'll be able to get at age 30? I sure as hell don't. And if you don't, you're losing him for nothing... or if you try to trade him next year, he won't command as much now because he'll be a one-year rental.

Right now is the best time to trade him.

I don't disagree about trading him. I disagree about the value people are putting on him on this board.

 

[overseascardfan]

I don't disagree about trading him. I disagree about the value people are putting on him on this board.

So in your opinion, what do you think is Bledsoe's value? Don't use the he's not an AS argument, no one is going to make the AS team as a PG in the West with Curry, Westbrook and Paul in the conference. Granted Bledsoe is an injury risk, he is a 20+ PPG, 6 APG, 5 RPG, 1.5 SPG player so I would say he is at least worth one Top 10 pick, maybe 2 in a weak draft and to be very honest this isn't that good of a draft. Aside from Fultz and Ball, non of the other prospects are viewed as potential franchise player types. So would Bledsoe be worth a Tatum & Zach Collins, IMO yes. You can say well picks a few years down the road could be better than Bledsoe but they also could be out of the league in a few years and Bledsoe will be in his 30's so yeah I would hope if some of these guys are still in the NBA that they would be living up to their draft status. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So in your opinion, what do you think is Bledsoe's value? Don't use the he's not an AS argument, no one is going to make the AS team as a PG in the West with Curry, Westbrook and Paul in the conference. Granted Bledsoe is an injury risk, he is a 20+ PPG, 6 APG, 5 RPG, 1.5 SPG player so I would say he is at least worth one Top 10 pick, maybe 2 in a weak draft and to be very honest this isn't that good of a draft. Aside from Fultz and Ball, non of the other prospects are viewed as potential franchise player types. So would Bledsoe be worth a Tatum & Zach Collins, IMO yes. You can say well picks a few years down the road could be better than Bledsoe but they also could be out of the league in a few years and Bledsoe will be in his 30's so yeah I would hope if some of these guys are still in the NBA that they would be living up to their draft status. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

I think he's probably worth a top 10 pick. But that's about it. And I'd make that deal now if there was a team who wanted him. Not sure who that would be, but if the chance arose, I'd jump at it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't disagree about trading him. I disagree about the value people are putting on him on this board.

Where you place his value in terms of draft pick(s) and/or current player(s)?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'd trade him for a top 10 pick IF we would be guaranteed of fox or smith at one of our two top 10 selections. In other words I don't want to trade Bledsoe if we don't have a viable, more appropriate aged, replacement (and I want to keep Ulis in a backup role).

 

[Chaplin]

Where you place his value in terms of draft pick(s) and/or current player(s)?

I think he's worth a top 10 pick THIS year and MAYBE a good role player. Also worth a future lottery pick + a good player.

But in no way do I think he is worth only future picks -- first of all, protection is the key, and no team is willing to give up picks without protection. The Miami picks are a great example--this board was so enamored by those picks, but since the Bosh situation was resolved, what happened? Those Miami picks are nowhere near as popular on this board. Given what we know today, would we have taken that trade back then? Not sure we would. I liked Dragic, but I think Bledsoe is a better player, even when taking his health into question.

 

[GatorAZ]

I think Philly would love to come away with Jackson and Monk but neither will obviously be there at #10 so then trading with Sacramento wouldn't help.

What if Philly takes JJ at 3 and offers their own 2018 pick (unprotected) and the Laker pick (unprotected) for #4? Too risky given we just blatantly tanked and don't come away with a player?