Kirilenko and big man updates

[fordronken]

http://blogs.eastvalleytribune.com/view.php?blogId=39

September 19, 2007
Skinner, Taylor audition
Jerry Brown
Ex-Buck Brian Skinner and veteran Maurice Taylor will join two other NBA veterans at US Airways Center Thursday as the Suns continue their auditions for free agent big men.

P.J. Brown is still the preferred answer and Vitaly Potapenko -- who like Taylor, languished on the Sacramento bench last season -- emerged as a leading candidate after his impressive workout here last week. But Skinner has a lot of the attributes the Suns are looking for (he averaged four points and six rebounds playing 22 minutes a game for Milwaukee last season). Taylor is a guy who is known more as a scorer but has a good body at 6-foot-9 and 260 pounds.

As far as the Shawn Marion-Anderi Kirilenko rumors go, here what I can tell you right now:

(1) The Suns do like Kirilenko, he only 26 and there are those in the organization that he would return to his All-Star form once released from that shackles of Jerry Sloan's system.

(2) The Suns know they can't (OK, won't) extend Marion after the 2008-09 season.

(3) This would never get done as a straight-up, player-for-player deal. The Suns need to dump a salary (guess who?) and get back another serviceable player, preferably a shooter (Gordan Giricek makes sense) for things to even get serious.

Having said all that, the chances of anything getting done, even after Kirilenko's poorly-timed trade demand, are very remote.

September 19, 2007
Andrei wants out
Jerry Brown
Is it just a conincidence, or does it make perfect sense that we now find out that Utah's Andrei Kirilenko told Jazz officials several weeks ago what he wrote (in Russian) in a blog for a Russian web site Tuesday -- that he wants to be traded before the season begins?

Here's the link to the Salt Lake Tribune story, just in case you've misplaced your Russian-English dictionary:

http://www.sltrib.com/jazz/ci_6934890

That would appear to dovetail perfectly with the timing of the Suns-Jazz trade talks involving Shawn Marion, which were confirmed but said to be short and sweet from the Phoenix side.

And it also makes sense that the initial phone call came from outside the 602 area code.

Of course, Marion hasn't done any blogging this season, so we'll have to wait for media day to find out whether he's upset enough about not getting a contract extension offer enough to ask for a change of address himself.

Kirilenko had a lousy season with the Jazz last season, but had a good summer -- leading Russia to the EuroBasket championship and earning MVP honors in the process -- which might make the $61 million left on his contract a little more palatable for someone.

But unless the Jazz sweeten the pot on both ends by taking another Phoenix contract (Marcus Banks) and adding a big man the Suns can bring off the bench, any deal is a non-starter.

 

[playstation]

so i guess this proves what we thought

the basis is banks + marion for AK + gordan + millsap

considering utah isn't willing to do that, talks never got off the ground.

makes sense, in upgrading from AK to marion, utah must take on banks contract, lose giriceks expiring deal, and lose a great young (and cheap) big.

if that's the deal, i do it. if not, i don't. simple as that.

 

[elindholm]

so i guess this proves what we thought

All it proves is that the author of the article thinks the same way we do. I wouldn't be surprised if he reads the board.

 

[playstation]

by the way, if some way utah decides to do that deal, i think both teams win. phoenix is deep enough to have a chance finally, utah is just plain scary.

nash
bell\barbosa
hill\giricek
amare\millsap
kirilenko\diaw

with tucker, strawberry, other crap

yes you read that right. you can be damn sure that if AK plays on this team, he's the 5. AND you're under the luxury tax.

Utah's cap number goes up by about $2M, but marion's contract is done just as deron's max deal would kick in, works as pretty good option value for them imo.

williams/hart
harpring/brewer
marion
boozer
okur/collins

with banks, fesenko, etc

 

[elindholm]

By the way, I don't think much of Giricek, but he is a career 37% three-point shooter. That's enough to keep defenses honest. With Barbosa and Bell the only true three-point threats now (Nash shoots them well but doesn't take many), the Suns could use another long-range gunner.

 

[playstation]

All it proves is that the author of the article thinks the same way we do. I wouldn't be surprised if he reads the board.

damn

ease up there cowboy

 

[elindholm]

If the Jazz decide they have to trade Kirilenko, they probably won't get a better deal than one based on Marion. It makes a lot more sense for them to want Marion than it did for the Timberwolves during the Garnett saga.

 

[jandaman]

I think Milsap will be very hard to add to the deal.

I say Brewer would be okay.


Marion + Banks + Piatkowski


For

Kirilenko + Brewer + Giricek + Collins

 

[fordronken]

I think Milsap will be very hard to add to the deal.

I say Brewer would be okay.


Marion + Banks + Piatkowski


For

Kirilenko + Brewer + Giricek + Collins

But Brewer doesn't address our problems. Millsap does. I'm guessing the Jazz want to give us Collins instead of Brewer, but Collins wouldn't play.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Utah looks mighty scary with Shawn on the floor.

 

[jandaman]

Jazz simply loves Milsap.... so I'm not sure how it can be done... third team?

 

[playstation]

I think Milsap will be very hard to add to the deal.

I say Brewer would be okay.


Marion + Banks + Piatkowski


For

Kirilenko + Brewer + Giricek + Collins

i think you're right in that utah probably won't want to include millsap. no collins either way though. you also have to look at total salary numbers here. the suns are taking on over $70M in salaries and giving back only about $40. that's a HUGE dump for the jazz. i think Utah also has a fair amount of picks stocked up, maybe even a couple from the googs trade...

 

[jandaman]

If I was Kerr/Sarver, force Jazz to give a 2009 No.1 pick.
Marion + Banks + Piatkowski

for

Kirilenko + Brewer + Giricek + 2009 No.1 pick.

and call it a day.

AK will be the main "4" for this team.

Brewer, Tucker and Strawberry potential Suns key players for the future.

Then sign any big body.

Diaw, Stoudemire, Kirilenko, Marks and another big body to cover the "4/5" spots.



The key now is to simply use a 9 man rotation, use the rookies/Brewer to get physical with Parker/Ginobili what ever... just use them!

 

[playstation]

why their 09 pick when you can get the NY pick we gave them back? that sucker is unprotected in '10, and i don't see the knicks getting much better soon.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I really dont think we can get that much for Marion. The entire league knows we will not extend him for anywhere near what he wants. That gives them some leverage.

Also, Don't you think he would put up a stink if we tried to trade him to Utah??? He didn't want to go to Boston, why do you think he would go to Salt Lake????

 

[azirish]

I really dont think we can get that much for Marion. The entire league knows we will not extend him for anywhere near what he wants. That gives them some leverage.

Also, Don't you think he would put up a stink if we tried to trade him to Utah??? He didn't want to go to Boston, why do you think he would go to Salt Lake????

The situation is different. The Boston deal was strictly a salary dump on the Suns part and Marion's agent found out how much (or little) they would give him in an extension. Boston wouldn't take him without it. (Yes the assets received were thought to be part of a KG deal, but it was still functionally separate).

The AK deal would be a salary dump by the Jazz and not really contingent on whether Marion extends. My read on it that he could gripe, bu couldn't veto it like the Boston situation.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

By the way, I don't think much of Giricek, but he is a career 37% three-point shooter. That's enough to keep defenses honest. With Barbosa and Bell the only true three-point threats now (Nash shoots them well but doesn't take many), the Suns could use another long-range gunner.

I think this was a much bigger problem last year than many thought. The fact that nobody could step up and hit wide open threes was a major issue, James Jones being the primary offender.

 

[elindholm]

I think this was a much bigger problem last year than many thought. The fact that nobody could step up and hit wide open threes was a major issue, James Jones being the primary offender.

If Jones's 38% three-point shooting last year wasn't good enough for you, then I guess Giricek's 37% probably won't cut it either.

 

[azirish]

If Jones's 38% three-point shooting last year wasn't good enough for you, then I guess Giricek's 37% probably won't cut it either.

Do the Jazz get wide open shots?

Seriously, the Jazz shot 47.4% overall but just 33.5% for three. Giricek led the Jazz in three point shooting at 42.6%, but took only 122 attempts (hit 52 of them). The entire Jazz squad shot only 1056 threes, compared to 1965 by the Suns.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

If Jones's 38% three-point shooting last year wasn't good enough for you, then I guess Giricek's 37% probably won't cut it either.

Giricek shot around 43% in the regular season from the three point line and almost 53% in the playoffs...not sure where you are getting your stats. I think it is safe to say that he would do at least as well in the Suns system which rewards good shooters with wide open shots consistently. If we can get AK47, Millsap and Giricek, the deal is a no brainer. Hopefully AK keeps bitching and forces Utah's hand.

 

[carey]

I must be the only guy that would hate to see Marion traded to a conference contender with the chance that we'd see him in the playoffs.

 

[arwillan]

I must be the only guy that would hate to see Marion traded to a conference contender with the chance that we'd see him in the playoffs.

i thought of this too. but really, who on the suns would he guard? nash? if parker ate him alive, then nash would do the same if not worse. and if parker can hide out on marion on defense, then nash could too. i dont think he is that good when he isnt in the run 'n' gun system

 

[elindholm]

Giricek shot around 43% in the regular season from the three point line and almost 53% in the playoffs...not sure where you are getting your stats.

Giricek's three-point percentage has fluctuated a lot from season to season, mainly because he doesn't get very many attempts, so I took his career number. There's no more reason to think that the Suns would get the 43% of last season than there is that they'd get the 31% of 05-06.

I think it is safe to say that he would do at least as well in the Suns system which rewards good shooters with wide open shots consistently.

Most three-point attempts are taken by players who are open, no matter what team they are on. Playing for the Suns generates more opportunities, but it doesn't improve three-point accuracy by more than a point or two.

If we can get AK47, Millsap and Giricek, the deal is a no brainer. Hopefully AK keeps bitching and forces Utah's hand.

I really think it all depends on what the Suns' medical staff thinks of Kirilenko and whether D'Antoni can bear to part with Marion. If a potential deal passes both of those tests, the other details can be ironed out.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I would be Happy with Marion/Banks for AK/Brewer/ and either Giricek or Utah '09 or '10. Millsap over brewer would be ideal though. Demanding young talent is key, and hopefully utah realizes they will have to move millsap or brewer due to AK's injury proneness.

I think brewer would be a great backup for Hill and although a bit redundant with Tucker, would challenge him to step up his game

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Giricek's three-point percentage has fluctuated a lot from season to season, mainly because he doesn't get very many attempts, so I took his career number. There's no more reason to think that the Suns would get the 43% of last season than there is that they'd get the 31% of 05-06.



Most three-point attempts are taken by players who are open, no matter what team they are on. Playing for the Suns generates more opportunities, but it doesn't improve three-point accuracy by more than a point or two.



I really think it all depends on what the Suns' medical staff thinks of Kirilenko and whether D'Antoni can bear to part with Marion. If a potential deal passes both of those tests, the other details can be ironed out.

I posted last years number because that is what you posted for James Jones. Consider that the majority of his career he has been a +35% three point shooter and the fact that he shot 43% last year, I can say with great confidence that he will shoot well enough, especially if he is on the Suns. With threats like Amare and Leandro, and distributors like Nash and Diaw I think that he would thrive in our system. Regardless, it is not like Giricek is the centerpiece of the deal, and anything he would contribute would be gravy.

If the Suns medical staff, who has an excellent reputation thinks that Kirilenko is worth the risk, I would definitely make the move. It is almost a lock that Marion will be gone in 2 years, and Kirilenko seems like a more valuable weapon against the Spurs than Marion, which is all that matters at this point anyway.