Knicks @ Suns Friday game thread 1-3-20

[GatorAZ]

Doncic is better than Ayton. Conceded. He will most likely be better than Ayton for his career. The Suns still made a very good choice with Ayton, not the best choice, but a good one. No team is going to get the best player at every position it drafts.

If the Bull had drafted Barkley instead of Jordan, should the Chicago fans spend the next 10 years ripping the ownership for the choice?

Hopefully, at some point, we will just be able to move on.

Barkley was an all time great.. As was Hakeem which is why Houston doesn’t get regret passing on the GOAT.

Now Luka will never come close to being the GOAT and Ayton will never come close to Hakeem so I’ve never been a fan of that analogy. Best case I see Luka as a 6’8” Nash with less efficiency and Ayton as a more offensively-limited Towns with potentially more defensive upside.

 

[leclerc]

They need to glue Saric to the bench and elevate Diallo over him in the rotation.

Yeah coach should say that the one who plays hardest in practice and games will get the minutes. Saric has been really good some games but they're too few and far between I'm afraid. Diallo has also shown some things, so PT should be earned between these two. The same for backup PG. Looks like Okobo has beaten Jerome for now. Carter can be used as defensive spark plug at SG when we're going small.

 

[leclerc]

BTW, Cam continues to be useless.

I think Cam can be good. He needs to put on some weight and get more experience, but he has a plenty of tools to contribute off the bench next year. Looks like Bridges has turned a corner also. His play has been positive the last couple of weeks. Good things usually happens when he's on the floor.

 

[leclerc]

That was a slick move by Ayton. Please, more of that and less 14 foot fadeaways.

Someone said to put him in pick and rolls and actually pass him the ball, at least in the beginning of games, so he can get touches and go to the rim. He's too passive when he's just inside the three point line or when he's settling for fade aways on the post. We need to get his FTA up to at least double the GP (games played). I think the ratio is around 1:1 now.

Later in games we (Booker) don't need to force it to him, as he can clean up the glass if the guard misses the drive. I think he's on the right track now. Hopefully he can match last year's averages by the All Star break.

 

[leclerc]

Kind of difficult to do without a single interior defender...

It's better on the inside now when we have Ayton back. A step up from Kaminsky and Saric! Great to have papa bear back.

 

[leclerc]

Here is the recap. Classic stats from the starters!

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The only minuses. Okobo with a -3 in 12:32 and Saric with a -9 in his 3:58.

That speaks for itself.

Wow, 6 FTAs for Ayton!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Wow, 6 FTAs for Ayton!

Don’t be conned. Four of those were intentional fouls with under 13 seconds remaining. Ayton didn’t create fouls. Only 2 FTs in the normal flow of the game, or just a shade over his season average of 1.7/game.

 

[leclerc]

Doncic can average 27/7/7 for his career, but if Ayton can give us 20/11 and solid interior presence throughout his career, I'd think the Suns made the right choice when we already have Booker. We'll see how it plays out over the years.

I think it would have been fun to watch Booker and Doncic together also, but done is done. Ayton has been good for us the last couple of wins (3 of 4 but who's counting?) -- let's hope he continues to improve on the glass, getting to the charity stripe, and especially inside on defense. His shot and touch is already good. Just got to build confidence through repetition so I hope Monty makes him play close to the basket and puts in a couple of plays for him. Sort of like Mark West. Get him involved early.

 

[leclerc]

right. he's totally not an MVP candidate already besides the numbers.

also, your stats argument undercuts a 20/11 Ayton impact as well.

Stats for guards are inflated. You can't touch them. You can do whatever you want with big men. If a big just jumps straight up when a guard comes running (at least a household name guard) the guard always gets the call.

 

[leclerc]

Goodness. Let him have fun. This locker room was a GD morgue this time last season. These dudes love each other and their coach

As long as they don't take a mini vacation now thinking they're world champions around town, coming out flat footed on the next game and losing too many of these important upcoming games. The time is now to make a push to get us close to the playoff hunt. If they fall too far back I'm afraid they start coasting and just look like last year with new faces.

 

[Carolinacacti]

I think Cam can be good. He needs to put on some weight and get more experience, but he has a plenty of tools to contribute off the bench next year. Looks like Bridges has turned a corner also. His play has been positive the last couple of weeks. Good things usually happens when he's on the floor.

Its easy to fine muscle not so easy to fine a pure shooter. I still wonder why Sun fans think the Mailman is knocking at the door and they just need to answer.

 

[leclerc]

Here is every shot by Booker in the game. His shot is pure.

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Yeah no question who our number 1 guy is any longer. Ayton and Oubre must be Horace Grant and Pippen.

 

[leclerc]

You do? That’s surprising. I don’t think he does. His few shots at the basket are either on breaks (rare) or in broken plays. Most if his points certainly seem to be coming from the 3-point line.

Ser Baynes sets amazing screens. He was better at it before he got injured though. I hope Rubio gets to gel with Baynes and Ayton now. We need them healthy to win some winnable games.

 

[leclerc]

Don’t be conned. Four of those were intentional fouls with under 13 seconds remaining. Ayton didn’t create fouls. Only 2 FTs in the normal flow of the game, or just a shade over his season average of 1.7/game.

He'll get an actual six some day. Just you wait and see.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah I don’t really consider doncic at this point when thinking about Ayton. My frustrations and hopes for Ayton are mostly in a vacuum about Ayton. I just find myself responding about doncic when I see other people make, what I believe to be, silly arguments about him or comparisons to Ayton that seem stupid to me.

And I think this is absolutely fair. Compare Ayton to what he should/can be, rather than compare him to Doncic. Ayton just LOOKS bigger than anyone on the court. He has that incredible frame and skill set. Just add some aggressiveness or confidence and he could be so much more.

On a positive note. When he play pf on D he seems to engage more. He is going for more blocks lately, and getting some, along with some fouls which I do not mind. I almost hate to say it, but if he is going to play pf, extending his jumper to the three-point line will do worlds of good for his game. He will get more touches because he would be able to receive the ball anywhere on the court and be a threat.

 

[1Sun]

And I think this is absolutely fair. Compare Ayton to what he should/can be, rather than compare him to Doncic. Ayton just LOOKS bigger than anyone on the court. He has that incredible frame and skill set. Just add some aggressiveness or confidence and he could be so much more.

On a positive note. When he play pf on D he seems to engage more. He is going for more blocks lately, and getting some, along with some fouls which I do not mind. I almost hate to say it, but if he is going to play pf, extending his jumper to the three-point line will do worlds of good for his game. He will get more touches because he would be able to receive the ball anywhere on the court and be a threat.

But that will leave the lane entirely exposed defensively, as it will leave the likes of Baynes and Saric to protect the rim when opposing guards inevitably drive past Booker and Rubio (who do not have the lateral quickness to stay with their men in that capacity)...

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

A) he only plays against and thus should be compared against current players for mvp. And that’s really the only thing that matters. If he’s the best in this generation he’s the best. Doesn’t matter in the woulda coulda shoulda debates.

B) 2 points from the perimeter is 2 points from the interior. You’re trying to back outta your own argument is laughable.

You full well know that you can't make any contact on a jump shooter and you can quite often get away with murder on big men near the basket. That gives guys that shoot a lot from the perimeter a big advantage (of course that should be considered when determining who to draft). By not allowing hand checking and by calling any contact on jump shots to include landing in their landing area they have made it impossible to for instance guard a step back jumper (the shot that Luka and Harden thrive on) or to have any sort of contact with someone that is handling the ball on the perimeter because they can just go into a jump shot while you are making that contact and immediately get the foul call.

Also the first comment that I replied to suggested that those are All Time Great numbers and that is where the comparison across eras came into the discussion.

 

[Bufalay]

Stats for guards are inflated. You can't touch them. You can do whatever you want with big men. If a big just jumps straight up when a guard comes running (at least a household name guard) the guard always gets the call.

That’s why the suns should’ve drafted a guard.

 

[BC867]

Maybe but he’s too good to just be Ayton’s backup.
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We'd all love to see Baynes as a starting Twin Tower for the rest of the season or even in a solid
3-way rotation at C & PF. But being 'too good' some of the time, then tiring for stretches, is only
a fraction of being 'too good'. Sadly, that has been the reality.

We need a younger, skilled starting Power Forward. And, hopefully Baynes would be able to stay
healthy as backup Center for the rest of the season, relieving the young Ayton as he develops.

At best, Baynes can backup Ayton at Center and whichever the best matchup is near the end of
a tight game would determine which one finishes. Or even the Twin Towers for a few minutes.

It is not what championship caliber teams would employ, but then, the Suns are hardly that.
They have to take what they can get. Especially with the failure of Saric at Power Forward.

 

[BC867]

It's better on the inside now when we have Ayton back. A step up from Kaminsky and Saric! Great to have papa bear back.

Papa bear or Baby bear?

 

[BC867]

Its easy to fine muscle not so easy to fine a pure shooter. I still wonder why Sun fans think the Mailman is knocking at the door and they just need to answer.

The Mailman retired.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Papa bear or Baby bear?

So far, teddy bear

 

[1Sun]

Its easy to fine muscle not so easy to fine a pure shooter.

Fine, but you still need both in the NBA, and James Jones has focused exclusively on the latter and completely disregarded the former...

 

[Bufalay]

At the start of the season the Suns seemed in control of every game mainly because of their defense. It seemed like they were very aggressive and fouled on almost every play. It resulted in a lot of foul trouble, but it looked like they were daring the refs to call fouls. They haven't been playing that way very often since Baynes' injury, but they seemed to get back to it in the 4th quarter last night.

 

[Yuma]

Ayton most reminds of Patrick Ewing. There were games Ewing would miss little flip shots 2 feet from the basket. It was like, throw that thing down Patrick! Ewing had more agression than Ayton to date.