Kobe is a bad man

[Cheesebeef]

I'm just saying that saying something in the heat of the moment is understandable.

so, in the heat of the moment, it's okay to call someone a ****** then? ********, you use that word and you've got issues.

 

[Mulli]

********. I'd NEVER use the word ****** when insulting someone... but unfortunately, have been guilty of using the word ****** before. been trying to curb the way I talk though lately, as I don't see the difference between the words. they're both used to denote someone of a lesser class. arguing otherwise is pretty stupid.

and the idea that Kobe's "owning" this... yet APPEALING the fine is ludicrous. if you own what you did, why appeal the punishment? Owning something means you take responsibility for your actions and the consequences that come with them.

Disagree. Kobe could reasonably appeal the amount of the fine, based on similar incidents have lesser fines imposed.
See Martin, Kenyon post below.


And I question you are trying to curb anything based on your posting the N-word, b-sheet, and fuggoosh in the same post.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Reach? Not in the least bit. ****** is a derogatory term towards homosexuals and the context behind it is not only trying to be antagonistic, but also implying that homosexuals are beneath you and I as straight guys, even if the term is used towards a heterosexual in the heat of an argument. The only difference is in society, we have allowed this term to become a traditional put down towards anyone and everyone.

As for the term "cornholio," it is not directed towards any demographic, but simply common profanity. Like if someone cut you off while driving, your reaction is to utter something along those lines about that particular driver. Happens all of the time. Completely benign when compared to a derogatory term towards any specific group of people, unarguably.

this puts my thoughts into words pretty well.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

so, in the heat of the moment, it's okay to call someone a ****** then? ********, you use that word and you've got issues.

I thought I covered this; but again, I'm not arguing that it is okay to say ****** or ****** or whatever.

I can understand why people would say things that they may not mean in the heat of the moment.

 

[Mulli]

I thought I covered this; but again, I'm not arguing that it is okay to say ****** or ****** or whatever.

I can understand why people would say things that they may not mean in the heat of the moment.

winna winna chicken dinna.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I thought I covered this; but again, I'm not arguing that it is okay to say ****** or ****** or whatever.

I can understand why people would say things that they may not mean in the heat of the moment.

i understand why people say those things too... it's because they have prejudices against the people the name is linked to.

 

[Mulli]

i understand why people say those things too... it's because they have prejudices against the people the name is linked to.

Yep, Kobe has prejudices against this ref. The video clearly states that.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

i understand why people say those things too... it's because they have prejudices against the people the name is linked to.

Rationally and logically thinking, yes. People saying things when they are angry are rarely rational or logical.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Rationally and logically thinking, yes. People saying things when they are angry are rarely rational or logical.

and in moments of anger, a lot of the time, people's true colors come out because they're not thinking about their filter.

I just wonder if black players would be so forgiving of a white player calling a ref a ******. I'm betting NOT A CHANCE IN HELL.

 

[D-Dogg]

I could not disagree with you more Donald. In my world "******" is a hurtful term - and it does not mean "jerk". If it meant "jerk" in todays society do you think Kobe would be fined $100,000?

I think you are seeing the beginnings of recognizing it as NOT a good word to use as a replacement for jerk. You see a huge fine a) because a ref was involved and b) because its a superstar and c) because it is a notification to NOT use that word to mean jerk because of the other connotations. Again, Kenyon Martin two years ago droped it audibly on Mark Cuban with NO repurcussions.

This shows an opening to acknowledging the sensitivity of the word and the ultimate elimination of its use in that context, which IMO is a very good thing (which you probably wouldn't have guessed by my side of the debate).

It is more akin to the N word.

Not yet. Not even remotely close. Eventually it will be, but right now it may BE as offensive, but that is NOT remotely the perception of it. The primary perception of it is "jerk." That's not a statement of right or wrong - just what is.

And for the record, when I said "wimp" I did not mean "limp wristed nancy boy".

I didn't say you did - only that those are the stereotypes originally associated with the slur that have combined to equate it to "puhsee" instead of "bad gay person." Just noting the evolution.

I meant meek, mild mannered and not standing up for oneself which has nothing to do with being gay

And neither does "limp wristed nancy boy."

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think you are seeing the beginnings of recognizing it as NOT a good word to use as a replacement for jerk. You see a huge fine a) because a ref was involved and b) because its a superstar and c) because it is a notification to NOT use that word to mean jerk because of the other connotations. Again, Kenyon Martin two years ago droped it audibly on Mark Cuban with NO repurcussions.

really I think we're seeing this because a) it was a super-super star... the league's biggest AND it was caught on National TV and even the commentators made mention of it. If this was just a game broadcast on Fox Sports West, a) the cameras would have probably never shown it, b) it would have been a story, but it wouldn't have blown up to a ridiculous degree like it has.

 

[D-Dogg]

so if someone called Donald a ******, would that be not unreasonable?

The word has not adopted that level of credibility as an offensive term in society yet.

Not to say it won't (it will) and not to say it shouldn't (it should) but walk into any room in any place in the nation and drop both words outside of the context of talking to someone black or talking to someone gay (ie, not a deliberate, targeted slur) and the reaction will be INCREDIBLY different.

 

[Mulli]

The word has not adopted that level of credibility as an offensive term in society yet.

Not to say it won't (it will) and not to say it shouldn't (it should) but walk into any room in any place in the nation and drop both words outside of the context of talking to someone black or talking to someone gay (ie, not a deliberate, targeted slur) and the reaction will be INCREDIBLY different.

Isn't it possible that the NBA is once again trying to market to people who wouldn't otherwise pay attention to the NBA?

First you blow up the statement so more people know about it. Then he apologizes so it stays on the front burner longer. This way more people get mad at Kobe so they watch to see him lose. That way you get the Kobelovers and the Kobehaters.

 

[D-Dogg]

really I think we're seeing this because a) it was a super-super star... the league's biggest AND it was caught on National TV and even the commentators made mention of it. If this was just a game broadcast on Fox Sports West, a) the cameras would have probably never shown it, b) it would have been a story, but it wouldn't have blown up to a ridiculous degree like it has.

KMarts was on national TV, and it was commented on by announcers.

Kmart is a uberdouche though, and should be fined for living.

I think there has to be an element of the current progressive trend for acceptance of gays in the huge fine here compared to eye-blinking at Kmart.

 

[D-Dogg]

Isn't it possible that the NBA is once again trying to market to people who wouldn't otherwise pay attention to the NBA?

First you blow up the statement so more people know about it. Then he apologizes so it stays on the front burner longer. This way more people get mad at Kobe so they watch to see him lose. That way you get the Kobelovers and the Kobehaters.

Oh hush, next you'll say the Lakers and Bulls will meet in the finals on the 20th anniversary of Phil and MJ's ascension over the Lakers as Phil and Kobe try to put Phil's career to bed.

That would never enter Stern's mind. :safe:

 

[ASUCHRIS]

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word

Just watched the South Park episode again...for all those up in arms about the meaning of the word, I think you should watch it.

As one critic says, ""The F Word" advocates a philosophy that language is malleable and ever-changing, and that the idea of taboo words are only assigned their stigma because society allows them to become so."

 

[Cheesebeef]

KMarts was on national TV, and it was commented on by announcers.

Kmart is a uberdouche though, and should be fined for living.

I think there has to be an element of the current progressive trend for acceptance of gays in the huge fine here compared to eye-blinking at Kmart.

huh... i don't even remember that.

and what makes Kmart an uber-douche? it's not like he raped a girl then threw a teammate under the bus to the cops to get out of it... then had to get his wife back by buying her a 4 million dollar rock... AT ZALES.

that my friend, is an uber douche. ZALES?!

but yes... Kmart's an uber-douche as well.

 

[Rivercard]

The word has not adopted that level of credibility as an offensive term in society yet.

What would MLK think?

 

[Dback Jon]

The DbackJon take:

1) I do not think Kobe was intending to slur me, or other gays. BUT...in parts of society, (many parts), calling someone a ****** is intended to question their manhood, a curse, etc.
2) That being said, it is something that needs to stop. My avatar is full of teens that killed themselves - bullied, tormented, and yes, called ****** on a daily basis. As Kobe used the term, it is intended to be negative. Gays are called ****** ALL the time in a negative connotation. This is why it is unacceptable to use.

 

[D-Dogg]

huh... i don't even remember that.

and what makes Kmart an uber-douche? it's not like he raped a girl then threw a teammate under the bus to the cops to get out of it... then had to get his wife back by buying her a 4 million dollar rock... AT ZALES.

that my friend, is an uber douche. ZALES?!

but yes... Kmart's an uber-douche as well.

I already played the rape card. You were late.

Kmart got bright red lips tatooed on his neck. That's basically douche starter fluid - by itself it's proof beyond reasonable doubt. Then he starts talking and even the stalwart jurors are ready to toss him in Ol Sparky for jaywalking.

The video of it is early in the thread - and it was because Cuban said something about his mom. It was kind of a big deal at the time, but quickly forgotten. Kinda like this topic.

 

[D-Dogg]

What would MLK think?

Not knowing him, I'd have to guess he'd be quite happy that everyone wasn't using the Nbomb as if it were Hello.

He'd also probably not flip out about the word being used and would instead work on the underlying issues that cause an offensive word to become so enmeshed in society that it has expanded past the point of being a slur and has become a softer word in other contexts and highly acceptable in many circles. In other words, he'd treat the disease and not the symptoms.

He'd also think Twitter was stupid.

 

[D-Dogg]

The DbackJon take:

1) I do not think Kobe was intending to slur me, or other gays. BUT...in parts of society, (many parts), calling someone a ****** is intended to question their manhood, a curse, etc.
2) That being said, it is something that needs to stop. My avatar is full of teens that killed themselves - bullied, tormented, and yes, called ****** on a daily basis. As Kobe used the term, it is intended to be negative. Gays are called ****** ALL the time in a negative connotation. This is why it is unacceptable to use.

I agree with your take.

 

[tobiazz]

In Kobe's defense, he's definitely not homophobic:

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[D-Dogg]

I don't think Donald said that it was ok, just not unreasonable. People say all sorts of things our of anger or frustration that aren't 'okay.'

To further clarify, what I said was reasonable was specifically Kobe giving additional thought to the apology that wally said was "disclaimer." I thought it was a reasonable reply, to show that Kobe obviously wasn't trying to call a closeted ref out and offend him because of his sexual preference, and instead was meaning it in that other way that Wally has never ever ever heard of ever.

 

[D-Dogg]

In Kobe's defense, he's definitely not homophobic:

You must be registered for see images attach

Mulli spoke too soon.


THAT is winner winner chicken dinner.