Kolb v. Leinart

[TJ]

Couldn't you say the same thing about any of the teams who drafted quarterbacks in the first two rounds of this draft class? Apparently no one likes Kolb as much as Jake Locker, or Christian Ponder, or Cam Newton.

Right?

Sure, but there is so much uncertainty with the CBA (duration and outcome) that teams had two options: pick a QB in the draft or wait it out and see how the abbreviated (or nonexistent) preseason goes. The aforementioned reached for a QB IMO. I believe Locker and Ponder are 2nd-3rd round QBs in any other draft which doesn't have the black cloud of a lockout looming above. And Newton is not the #1 pick. The Cards decided that their next QB needs to come via trade or FA. They have too many young QBs on the roster in Skelton, Hall and Bartell, who have a combined 6 starts on their resume with no success.

My guess is in the 36-48 hours teams had to talk amongst each other, there was some sort of agreement in place either with the Broncos or Eagles to acquire Orton or Kolb respectively and that if free agency opened, something would have transpired relatively fast. There is probably an assumption in the building that help is on its way when/if the CBA is resolved.

You can say the Cards either didn't panic or that they were not prudent in the draft due to their lack of selection of a QB, but the bottom line is they believe the answer was not in the draft. A risk indeed seeing as if they crap out, Skelton is the man.

 

[moklerman]

So, Leinart must be bad because Whis cut him? Is that what I'm reading?

Didn't Whis also choose Leinart over Warner? Didn't he also spend a 1st round pick on Beanie?

Leinart can't be worth anything because no team has talked about acquiring him? During a lockout where teams aren't allowed to talk to free agents.

 

[TJ]

So, Leinart must be bad because Whis cut him? Is that what I'm reading?

Didn't Whis also choose Leinart over Warner? Didn't he also spend a 1st round pick on Beanie?

Leinart can't be worth anything because no team has talked about acquiring him? During a lockout where teams aren't allowed to talk to free agents.

Leinart is bad because Leinart is mentally weak. And yes, Whiz gave Leinart multiple chances to seize the position and simply couldn't. Whiz ALSO went with Warner in 2008 and struck gold. And what does Beanie Wells have to do with anything.

I also want to read a report which talks about Leinart being discussed in any trade or acquisition if he becomes a free agent. Seattle has been talked about, but that's only because Carrol is there. There are sources everywhere which leak this kind of information. Don't begin to tell me teams dont talk amongst each other even though they aren't allowed to. The 49ers visited Alex Smith's wife in the hospital when their baby was born. They are rumored to want him back. Do you honestly think the word "contract" wasn't uttered at all?

 

[conraddobler]

Man the lockout sucks, it leads to threads like this.

 

[kerouac9]

Sure, but there is so much uncertainty with the CBA (duration and outcome) that teams had two options: pick a QB in the draft or wait it out and see how the abbreviated (or nonexistent) preseason goes. The aforementioned reached for a QB IMO. I believe Locker and Ponder are 2nd-3rd round QBs in any other draft which doesn't have the black cloud of a lockout looming above. And Newton is not the #1 pick. The Cards decided that their next QB needs to come via trade or FA. They have too many young QBs on the roster in Skelton, Hall and Bartell, who have a combined 6 starts on their resume with no success.

My guess is in the 36-48 hours teams had to talk amongst each other, there was some sort of agreement in place either with the Broncos or Eagles to acquire Orton or Kolb respectively and that if free agency opened, something would have transpired relatively fast. There is probably an assumption in the building that help is on its way when/if the CBA is resolved.

You can say the Cards either didn't panic or that they were not prudent in the draft due to their lack of selection of a QB, but the bottom line is they believe the answer was not in the draft. A risk indeed seeing as if they crap out, Skelton is the man.

So you're saying that the distinction between Kevin Kolb and guys who you think are second- and third-round talents aren't so great that teams--whom you assert are experts and know way more about football and talent evaluation than any of us--didn't feel bad taking these mid-round talents? Doesn't that tell you something about Kolb's value around the league?

Doesn't the fact that the Eagles are telling everyone who will listen that the Cards LOVE Kolb and are ready to take him tell you something about his real value? Here's a hint: When you sell a car, you take down the CraigsList listing.

Hall is not making an NFL roster. I'd put the odds that he makes it to training camp at 40%.

 

[TJ]

So you're saying that the distinction between Kevin Kolb and guys who you think are second- and third-round talents aren't so great that teams--whom you assert are experts and know way more about football and talent evaluation than any of us--didn't feel bad taking these mid-round talents? Doesn't that tell you something about Kolb's value around the league?

No. What I said was the CBA uncertainty changed the way other teams viewed the offseason and their strategy. The only definitive way they were going to fill needs was through the draft. And those who needed QBs weren't going to wait any longer to address the position. If there was no CBA issue, Kolb and Orton would have been dealt long before the draft. And all of the FAs would have been signed, such as Bulger, Hasselbeck, and Smith. The proverbial fog would have already been burned off and the draft would have played out much different than it did.

Kolb's value has taken a hit because the potential number of teams in pursuit have diminished, not because his level of talent (or perceived level) has diminished.

This is more situational than anything. Any other circumstance and the conversation we're having is much different.

Doesn't the fact that the Eagles are telling everyone who will listen that the Cards LOVE Kolb and are ready to take him tell you something about his real value? Here's a hint: When you sell a car, you take down the CraigsList listing.

The car hasn't been sold yet has it? With the CBA, it's like saying the car needs to clear emissions before the deal can be finalized. Why not keep the listing up in case someone comes in $500 more while work is being done on it? The Eagles owe the Cardinals nothing. If another team decides to offer them more, they're going to take it. Simple business transaction.

And obviously, no alleged conversations between teams while the lockout is still in effect are going to be divulged directly from the horse's mouth. But we all know they're happening.

But the answer is no. It doesnt say anything about his real value. His real value is what the outcome of the transaction is. You may think he is overvalued or overpaid, but as a former boss once told me after I got a raise: you're worth what you're paid.

Hall is not making an NFL roster. I'd put the odds that he makes it to training camp at 40%.

If the CBA isnt negotiated by the time the season starts and the lockout begins to deplete games, I think he is a Cardinal by default.

 

[Catfish]

It wasn't Leinart's stats that got him run out of town, it was his poor attitude, and his failure to do anything at all to endear the players to him. He was stand-offish with his team-mates and the coaches as well. That is what got him run out of town. That doesn't mean that I don't think Whis was a dick-head for doing it without having a back-up plan though. He blew the only backup plan that he had which could possibly work when he gave Leinart away. No way was he going to win without Leinart if Anderson failed. He may not have won with Leinart either, but never gave him the chance in 2010.

 

[moklerman]

Leinart is bad because Leinart is mentally weak.

Mind-reading must be a great gift. Why don't you use your power for good?

And yes, Whiz gave Leinart multiple chances to seize the position and simply couldn't.

You mean when he got injured? He was still the starter in '07 when he went down.

Whiz ALSO went with Warner in 2008 and struck gold.

Was that really much of a decision? Warner led all QB's in TD passes the 2nd half of '07(and Brady put up 50 total that year). Do you think there was actually a competition? I can't think of anything Leinart could have done in the '08 preseason that would have clearly established him as the starter.

And what does Beanie Wells have to do with anything.

The selection of and use of Wells by Whis clearly illustrates how his personnel decisions are not above questioning or criticism. Therefore, the line of thinking that says Leinart must be bad just because Whis cut him, becomes flawed.

 

[desertdawg]

Mind-reading must be a great gift. Why don't you use your power for good?
You mean when he got injured? He was still the starter in '07 when he went down.
Was that really much of a decision? Warner led all QB's in TD passes the 2nd half of '07(and Brady put up 50 total that year). Do you think there was actually a competition? I can't think of anything Leinart could have done in the '08 preseason that would have clearly established him as the starter.
The selection of and use of Wells by Whis clearly illustrates how his personnel decisions are not above questioning or criticism. Therefore, the line of thinking that says Leinart must be bad just because Whis cut him, becomes flawed.

Why doesn't anybody want him?

 

[moklerman]

Why doesn't anybody want him?

The same reason no one wants Darren Sproles right now.

 

[Cardiac]

Man the lockout sucks, it leads to threads like this.

Now this I can agree with.

It won't however stop me from joining in.

12 teams or so needed to address the QB position this offseason. Kolb is only one option so of course other teams chose not to get into a bidding war and drafted QB's. Thinking this makes a statement about Kolb's perceived worth around the league is kinda silly.

 

[TJ]

Mind-reading must be a great gift. Why don't you use your power for good?

So you would say his inability to handle the media scrutiny and competition with Derek Anderson is a sign of mental toughness?

It's not "mind reading" it's "common sense."

You mean when he got injured? He was still the starter in '07 when he went down.

Leinart was kept as the starter in 2007, but Whiz brought in Warner to run the 2-minute offense and was much more effective. Leinart was given the opportunity to seize the job in 2008 and again last season.

Was that really much of a decision? Warner led all QB's in TD passes the 2nd half of '07(and Brady put up 50 total that year). Do you think there was actually a competition? I can't think of anything Leinart could have done in the '08 preseason that would have clearly established him as the starter.

Yes it was considering up until the 3rd preseason game, they looked to be neck and neck. Even then, the pressure was on Whiz to give the torch to the young guy. Not as easy as you think it was. Go back to the preseason 2008 threads and you'll see

The selection of and use of Wells by Whis clearly illustrates how his personnel decisions are not above questioning or criticism. Therefore, the line of thinking that says Leinart must be bad just because Whis cut him, becomes flawed.

What's "flawed" is this silly example. First, Wells had a knee injury. How would you have better used him last season?

Also, how does it feel to be comfortably numb to the fact that Leinart simply is a bad quarterback? I know I know. Your agenda is to rip Whiz apart. You've demonstrated that in your contrived example of Beanie. But to continue to believe that there is this conspiracy going on that Whiz cut Leinart for personal reasons is simply baseless.

 

[moklerman]

So you would say his inability to handle the media scrutiny and competition with Derek Anderson is a sign of mental toughness?

What scrutiny did he not handle? How did he not handle it? You don't mean when he voiced his frustration about not getting much playing time last preseason do you? Because I think his frustration was clearly valid.

Leinart was kept as the starter in 2007, but Whiz brought in Warner to run the 2-minute offense and was much more effective. Leinart was given the opportunity to seize the job in 2008 and again last season.

Actually, I think you'd be hard pressed to find much evidence to support the idea that Leinart couldn't run the 2-minute offense. Sure, Warner ran it better but I don't know that there were any QB's in the league who could run the 2 minute offense as good as Warner most of the time.

Sure, Leinart couldn't beat out Warner at the top of his game in the '08 preseason but he far out-played the other QB's in the '10 preseason and was then cut before getting a single regular season snap. Leinart's biggest fault was that he couldn't instantly replicate what Warner was doing.

Yes it was considering up until the 3rd preseason game, they looked to be neck and neck.

Perhaps, but we have the benefit of hindsight at this point. Looking back, it's clear that Warner was the starter unless Leinart did something truly remarkable. Warner basically didn't even play that preseason. The job was his and Whis was going to go with the veteran who was on a hot streak, not the unproven guy that he, IMO, didn't even like on a personal level.

All of the ambiguous statements by Whis leading up to the decision put the board in a state of uncertainty about who the starter might be, but in reality, there really wasn't a true competition for the QB job that preseason.

What's "flawed" is this silly example. First, Wells had a knee injury. How would you have better used him last season?

Seriously? You're actually arguing that Whis has utilized Wells and got value from him since he's been drafted?

Also, how does it feel to be comfortably numb to the fact that Leinart simply is a bad quarterback?

Well, I would have to agree that that statement was true before I could admit to being numb to it. But I don't agree. I can agree that Leinart was not a fit for whatever it is that Whis wants to do on offense but I think the book is still unwritten with Leinart.

The fact that every QB not named Warner has really struggled for Whis as the Cardinals head coach and the fact that Leinart looked pretty darned good as a rookie with Green as his head coach leaves me thinking there's a chance that Leinart just needs a change of scenery. I could be wrong but I think the possibility is very realistic.

But to continue to believe that there is this conspiracy going on that Whiz cut Leinart for personal reasons is simply baseless.

It had nothing to do with Leinart's personality? Really? We're still talking about "Matt" Leinart, right? Okay, that's sarcastic on my part. Please give me your clinical reasons that support why Leinart was cut based on the 2010 preseason. Because nothing before that should really matter considering he was the starter up until the preseason games started.

 

[TJ]

What scrutiny did he not handle? How did he not handle it? You don't mean when he voiced his frustration about not getting much playing time last preseason do you? Because I think his frustration was clearly valid.
Actually, I think you'd be hard pressed to find much evidence to support the idea that Leinart couldn't run the 2-minute offense. Sure, Warner ran it better but I don't know that there were any QB's in the league who could run the 2 minute offense as good as Warner most of the time.

Sure, Leinart couldn't beat out Warner at the top of his game in the '08 preseason but he far out-played the other QB's in the '10 preseason and was then cut before getting a single regular season snap. Leinart's biggest fault was that he couldn't instantly replicate what Warner was doing.
Perhaps, but we have the benefit of hindsight at this point. Looking back, it's clear that Warner was the starter unless Leinart did something truly remarkable. Warner basically didn't even play that preseason. The job was his and Whis was going to go with the veteran who was on a hot streak, not the unproven guy that he, IMO, didn't even like on a personal level.

All of the ambiguous statements by Whis leading up to the decision put the board in a state of uncertainty about who the starter might be, but in reality, there really wasn't a true competition for the QB job that preseason.
Seriously? You're actually arguing that Whis has utilized Wells and got value from him since he's been drafted?
Well, I would have to agree that that statement was true before I could admit to being numb to it. But I don't agree. I can agree that Leinart was not a fit for whatever it is that Whis wants to do on offense but I think the book is still unwritten with Leinart.

The fact that every QB not named Warner has really struggled for Whis as the Cardinals head coach and the fact that Leinart looked pretty darned good as a rookie with Green as his head coach leaves me thinking there's a chance that Leinart just needs a change of scenery. I could be wrong but I think the possibility is very realistic.
It had nothing to do with Leinart's personality? Really? We're still talking about "Matt" Leinart, right? Okay, that's sarcastic on my part. Please give me your clinical reasons that support why Leinart was cut based on the 2010 preseason. Because nothing before that should really matter considering he was the starter up until the preseason games started.

If you are honestly going to tell me that he handled scrutiny well, you are ice skating uphill in this conversation.

You have yet to give me any examples that demonstrate his mental toughness and ability to overcome obstacles. You want to make a cogent argument that Whiz had an agenda and was completely fallable for cutting Leinart, it starts with analyzing his mental makeup. Because there is too much evidence based on his attitude over the preseason that he wasn't tough enough to handle pressure, even something as diminutive as fending off Derek Anderson for the starting position. He should have taken the high road, like McNabb is doing in Washington with the John Beck quotes. Instead, he comes off as infantile.

It is as simple as this. Matt failed to seize the job when it was there for the taking. Many times. Whiz gave him countless opportunities and was with him for four years. Whiz may not be infallible, but he is certainly not dumb. People need to put their torches and pitchforks down and remember that Whiz is the only coach in AZ Cardinals history to have two division championships and a conference championship to go with. Bring back some McGinnis and Denny Green threads if you want to beat up on coaches.

 

[Duckjake]

It had nothing to do with Leinart's ability or lack thereof.

CKW is simply getting rid of all the Denny Green guys. Only Fitz and DD are popular enough to avoid the purge. Lutui will be the next to go, in fact that was probably what all the tumult was about last season. Trying to manufacture a reason to get rid of Duece. It's most likely why he got a 2nd round tender.

Not a knock on CKW at all. It's what all coaches do. A major reason for the Cards lack of success for years. The coaching carousel leading to constant turnover of players so the Cards never developed a core of long term veterans. When they finally did for a short period... 2 NFC West titles and a SB appearance.

 

[moklerman]

If you are honestly going to tell me that he handled scrutiny well, you are ice skating uphill in this conversation.

I'm not trying to tell you anything. You're the one who brought up what Leinart was thinking. I asked you to give examples of which instances led you and your mind-reading to have the opinion(stated as fact) that you have.

Because there is too much evidence based on his attitude over the preseason that he wasn't tough enough to handle pressure

That is what you keep saying but you haven't provided anything to support that line of thinking.

All we know is, Whis flat out cut the only viable option at QB the Cardinals had and he did it at the 11th hour and it brought no compensation to the Cardinals and it torpedoed their very real shot at the post season. None of that equals a coach making sound, rational, impersonal decisions.

He should have taken the high road, like McNabb is doing in Washington with the John Beck quotes. Instead, he comes off as infantile.

I thought he took the high road for 2 1/2 years, doing everything he could to support Warner and the team and not make waves, biding his time for his chance.

It is as simple as this. Matt failed to seize the job when it was there for the taking. Many times. Whiz gave him countless opportunities

So you're saying that 6 career starts is ample opportunity to evaluate and determine what you have in an NFL QB? Cuz that's all Whis needed. Why do you consider Whis' decision with Leinart to be sound when there is much to question about his decisions at the QB position as the Cardinals coach? Was Derek Anderson a good decision? Max Hall? Brian St. Pierre? It seems to me, there is a chance that he blew the Leinart decision based on all of those other choices he made. It's "possible" isn't it?

Whiz may not be infallible, but he is certainly not dumb.

Who said he was?

People need to put their torches and pitchforks down and remember that Whiz is the only coach in AZ Cardinals history to have two division championships and a conference championship to go with.

I thought we were talking about a specific question, not about his overall record and accomplishments. Of course, you're equating criticism of his choices related to the QB position to torches and pitchforks so you might be a little too dramatic about the subject.

 

[Cardiac]

It had nothing to do with Leinart's ability or lack thereof.

CKW is simply getting rid of all the Denny Green guys. Only Fitz and DD are popular enough to avoid the purge. Lutui will be the next to go, in fact that was probably what all the tumult was about last season. Trying to manufacture a reason to get rid of Duece. It's most likely why he got a 2nd round tender.

Not a knock on CKW at all. It's what all coaches do. A major reason for the Cards lack of success for years. The coaching carousel leading to constant turnover of players so the Cards never developed a core of long term veterans. When they finally did for a short period... 2 NFC West titles and a SB appearance.

Sorry Duck but I don't buy it. Whiz tried to re-sign Dansby and Rolle. He started Warner and did everything he could to keep him from retiring. Who else, with any talent, left under Whiz's tenure that was a DG acquisition? Antonio Smith was vastly overpaid by the Texans so I don't count him.

Those 5 players, Fitz, Lutui, and DD are really the only talented players that DG brought to us.

TJ, moklerman has staying power and won't give up on a topic even when it's opinion based and he is clearly wrong.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

TJ, moklerman has staying power and won't give up on a topic even when it's opinion based and he is clearly wrong.

Yep, even when "#7" flames out of the league and is never a successful starting qb, I guarantee these guys will continue to blame it on Whiz, and make excuses. Such is life, especially with the extreme fanboys.

 

[moklerman]

TJ, moklerman has staying power and won't give up on a topic even when it's opinion based and he is clearly wrong.

Oh? And what have I been wrong about?

I still remember the legions of Cardinals fans who thought I was crazy and dismissed my opinions about Warner. I remember those who thought I was "wrong" when I said that Leinart's party pic's were going to cost him too.

Sure, I can dig my heels in but it's usually because I feel pretty confident about the subject. Plus it usually takes a lot of time to refute and correct all of the flim-flam that's being thrown my direction.

Yep, even when "#7" flames out of the league and is never a successful starting qb, I guarantee these guys will continue to blame it on Whiz, and make excuses. Such is life, especially with the extreme fanboys.

And I can't see a future where certain posters can have a conversation without acting superior. "Acting" being the key word.

But getting the point and staying on topic is far too difficult for that crowd IMO. Because regardless of what happens with Leinart, Whis botched the 2010 season with how he handled it. That those poor decision(s) are defended is a much clearer example of homerism than vilification by those offering critique.

From my point of view in particular, I have criticized Whis about that situation but never called for him to be fired. Never belittled what he has accomplished overall and have often praised him for a variety of things.

But the drama queens would rather martyr Whis and claim that his every action as a coach has been criticized and questioned. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

 

[Duckjake]

Sorry Duck but I don't buy it. Whiz tried to re-sign Dansby and Rolle. He started Warner and did everything he could to keep him from retiring. Who else, with any talent, left under Whiz's tenure that was a DG acquisition? Antonio Smith was vastly overpaid by the Texans so I don't count him.

Those 5 players, Fitz, Lutui, and DD are really the only talented players that DG brought to us.

TJ, moklerman has staying power and won't give up on a topic even when it's opinion based and he is clearly wrong.

Of the 53 guys on the team in the Spring of 2007 only a handful were still on the roster last season. The team was 5-11 and dead last in almost every statistical category last year. Over the 3 previous seasons they won 31 games and an NFC Championship.

I'd have to disagree with you.

But really who was better is irrelevant. CKW wants his guys. That's just the way it is in the NFL.

 

[Duckjake]

Yep, even when "#7" flames out of the league and is never a successful starting qb, I guarantee these guys will continue to blame it on Whiz, and make excuses. Such is life, especially with the extreme fanboys.

5-11 with some of the most horrendous QB play in NFL history. Now looking at not having anything at QB or having to give up a high draft pick to get a QB after having drafted the QBOF in 2006.

I can see why we're all excited that Leinart was a failure.

With the extreme fanboys if a guys on the roster he's a superstar. As soon as he's gone he's a bum and always was.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

5-11 with some of the most horrendous QB play in NFL history. Now looking at not having anything at QB or having to give up a high draft pick to get a QB after having drafted the QBOF in 2006.

I can see why we're all excited that Leinart was a failure.

I don't know about you, but I doubt anyone was happy that he was a failure. Unfortunately, it's the reality of the situation. Some fail to grasp that.

With the extreme fanboys if a guys on the roster he's a superstar. As soon as he's gone he's a bum and always was.

Ultimately, every player is what he does. That probably applies for all of us.

 

[Duckjake]

I don't know about you, but I doubt anyone was happy that he was a failure. Unfortunately, it's the reality of the situation. Some fail to grasp that.

There sure seem to be a lot of people who go out of their way to try and prove Leinart was a failure. Far more than try to prove he wasn't and it was a mistake to let him go. Which was the point of my post.

Ultimately, every player is what he does.

I agree. Like rush for over 10,000 yards or win comeback player of the year twice or get selected to the pro bowl for another team or start every game for another team for years.

Look, I love the Cards but you can't just gloss over the numerous mistakes they've made in personnel and coaching decisions. If they were such geniuses they wouldn't have only 3 winning seasons in 23 years in Arizona winning 5 games or less in half of those years.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

There sure seem to be a lot of people who go out of their way to try and prove Leinart was a failure.

It doesn't take much effort, he was unquestionably a failure here.

Far more than try to prove he wasn't and it was a mistake to let him go. Which was the point of my post.

These aren't mutually exclusive ideas. Ultimately, it may have been a mistake to let him go. That being said, it's impossible to assert with any certainty that we would have been a playoff team with Leinart. Based on what we've seen over the last couple years and in the preseason/training camp, I wasn't encouraged. Anyone watching closely wasn't.


Perhaps the mistake wasn't letting him go, but not letting him go sooner and finding an adequate starter. Until Leinart proves otherwise, he's an NFL bust. I'm not holding my breath for that to change.

Look, I love the Cards but you can't just gloss over the numerous mistakes they've made in personnel and coaching decisions. If they were such geniuses they wouldn't have only 3 winning seasons in 23 years in Arizona winning 5 games or less in half of those years.

You're preaching to the choir here, I certainly have been more than vocal in my criticism of personnel decisions throughout the years, and rightfully so. That being said, I think we need to evaluate all of these decisions individually, and in the case of Leinart, I think it's impossible to say with certainty that giving up on him was a mistake.

If he goes anywhere and has success as an NFL starter, I'll be first in line to enjoy a major plate of crow, but I don't see it happening.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

It doesn't take much effort, he was unquestionably a failure here.



These aren't mutually exclusive ideas. Ultimately, it may have been a mistake to let him go. That being said, it's impossible to assert with any certainty that we would have been a playoff team with Leinart. Based on what we've seen over the last couple years and in the preseason/training camp, I wasn't encouraged. Anyone watching closely wasn't.


Perhaps the mistake wasn't letting him go, but not letting him go sooner and finding an adequate starter. Until Leinart proves otherwise, he's an NFL bust. I'm not holding my breath for that to change.





You're preaching to the choir here, I certainly have been more than vocal in my criticism of personnel decisions throughout the years, and rightfully so. That being said, I think we need to evaluate all of these decisions individually, and in the case of Leinart, I think it's impossible to say with certainty that giving up on him was a mistake.

If he goes anywhere and has success as an NFL starter, I'll be first in line to enjoy a major plate of crow, but I don't see it happening.

Agree with all of this.