Kolb v. Leinart

[john h]

I would think most coaches would not tolerate any player publicly calling him out day after day. It would create problems in the clubhouse and perhaps no matter how good the player might be he would likely be gone. For better or worse. I think most any of us who have a boss know better to openly criticize him else we are gone the next day.

Palmer and his coach/GM are probably good examples of this. Palmer has enough money that he does not care and the coach/GM is not going to embarrass himself and set some sort of standard operating procedure.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I hadn't thought of that. Thank you for equating yourself to a grain of sand. I think it's appropriate.

Lol, shocked that one went right over your head.

I also thinks it's downright moronic to consider him a bust when it was Whis and the Cardinals who didn't let him play.

Yep, keep constructing a narrative that he never had a chance, and always got screwed. It's pure fiction, but whatever helps you sleep at night. I'm sure the Cards were thrilled that their top 10 pick and qbotf was a bust, and completely screwed them in the post-Warner era. And of course, Whiz was sooo stubborn and vindictive that he'd prefer to go into the season with absolute dog crap at QB, as opposed to letting ol Matty dominate.

The most ironic thing about all of this is you're a die hard Warner fan! Warner, a no-name oft-cut player who had to bust his ass and fight for everything he ever got. Leinart couldn't be more opposite, from his pedigree to his work habits.

Do you think it's even the least bit curious that Warner NEVER gave Leinart a solid vote of confidence? Do you find that the least bit telling?

Let's just say that it would take "hard evidence" to convince me that you were in favor of...no, a "huge supporter" of Warner when the Cardinals drafted Leinart.

I'll get right on it and start doing some detective work!

I mention early '07 and you offer '09. Of course you were a Warner supporter then. You'd be a fool not to be.

You continue to assume what I think, and make things up with no evidence, which speaks to your level of delusion on the topic, and the irrationality of continuing the conversation.

To be frank, it's perfectly understandable that all involved parties wanted Leinart to be the guy, and Warner to be his backup. Leinart was the young, can't miss player who showed some promise early on, and Warner looked completely lost and ineffective not only in NY, but also early on with the Cards. He made some great plays, but also as many boneheaded plays that made it difficult to stick with him, especially with a "franchise" qb waiting in the wings.

Then Warner decided to dedicate himself to changing his game, from a footwork and ball protection standpoint (no credit to Whiz and Haley of course), and was clearly the better qb when Whiz ran the platoon. The Baltimore game was a classic example, with Leinart completely ineffective and Warner dominant.

A classic example of show me, don't tell me, which is in essence, the difference between Warner and Leinart. Just unbelievable that you of everyone here can't appreciate that.

 

[TJ]

Luckily it doesn't take much for you to play dumb.

All you've got to offer is changing the subject and casting insults. You were wrong about Warner and you don't have the balls to just admit I was right and take my opinion seriously about Leinart.

Score? Judging? You can't figure out for yourself if Warner was the right choice at QB? You somehow don't understand that's what was being talked about? You find it tedious? I find you futile. You clearly don't deserve the time and courtesy I have given you. You were wrong about Warner and have no cause to be arrogant when it comes to talking about the QB situation.

It would be one thing if you were just stupid or ignorant but you choose to be obtuse and offensive. That is how you present yourself and represent the team you follow and it's sad.
Are you really that dense? I was the one who was right about the situation and just like now, no matter how much time I spend trying to illustrate my opinion, there are those like you who just refuse to acknowledge it and resort to the drivel you're posting.

By the way, I'm not upset I'm just not opposed to pointing out all of the lies and errors presented by people.
Which completely refuted your claim. Which was the point. You tried to paint the picture that you were on the side of the righteous, backed by facts that I just chose to ignore. While in reality, it was the furthest thing from the truth and after 4 days, you chose to ignore everything I pointed out and just go for more insults.

Don't worry though. I know it's because you actually have nothing relevant to say and it's all you've got to try and save face. I agree that you should stay out of the football talk, it's not your strong point. Why don't you go play with the emoticons or something shiny?
So both of you are really trying to say that no one around here keeps track of who said what about each situation? Yeah, right. The fact of the matter is, all of you geniuses who are so smart and know the Cardinals and know football so much better than me and want to paint me as having any variety of mental issues were the one's who were wrong. Instead of taking your medicine(before you get your panties in knot, that's just a phrase. I would like to give you the benefit of doubt for understand a turn of phrase but the fixation you displayed with the hypothetical tally and tangent that it sent you on eliminates that assumption on my part.) and just admitting that I wasn't part of the lunatic fringe and knew what I was talking about, you have to resort to more name calling.

Please don't respond. Just think about it. Rise above your instinct and be classy.

Wow....this entire post screams insecurity. "Don't respond" "Go play with shiny objects" "Chose to be obtuse and offensive (hypocrisy at its finest)" "Take your medicine?" Talk about delusions of grandeur.

I'm not out to get in a pissing match with you, but the fact of the matter is you are completely out of line with your posts at the moment to the point where the subject is a thing of the past and have to resort to ad hominem attacks. That's when I felt your credibility was lost and further discussions about the subject were just futile.

And just for clarification: I don't know a single message board member who "keeps score" on their post. I don't have a note book on my desk that has each member's name and how many times I felt I "1-Uped" them on a subject. Evidently, this is important to you. If this is how you treat a message board, then by all means, chalk this one as a win against ASUCHRIS and I. But we reserve the right to question the rationale of this behavior.

 

[moklerman]

Lol, shocked that one went right over your head.

Funny, I'm not surprised at all to see that you think I missed it. I'm sure you're very proud of your vagina humor. Please don't concern yourself with talking over my head. It hasn't happened yet and I doubt that it will any time soon.

Yep, keep constructing a narrative that he never had a chance, and always got screwed.

Never said that. If you're going to stray from the examples given, please don't attribute your fictional recounting to me.

And of course, Whiz was sooo stubborn and vindictive that he'd prefer to go into the season with absolute dog crap at QB, as opposed to letting ol Matty dominate.

Well, he did prefer to go into the season with dog crap at QB. I find it hard to believe that the ML I saw play had forgotten how to play football even up to the level he was playing as a rookie or that his personality was so toxic that he had to be cut as the only option.

The most ironic thing about all of this is you're a die hard Warner fan! Warner, a no-name oft-cut player who had to bust his ass and fight for everything he ever got. Leinart couldn't be more opposite, from his pedigree to his work habits.

So what's your point? Since Warner was my favorite player and I admired the trials and tribulations he went through I can't comment on Leinart? I should hate Leinart because he hasn't worked as hard as Warner? Maybe Leinart is a very hate-able guy, I don't know. I can't comment on him personally.

Do you think it's even the least bit curious that Warner NEVER gave Leinart a solid vote of confidence? Do you find that the least bit telling?

Yes, I did find it curious. But it's also a good example of you not understanding or accepting what I've been saying. I've never argued that Leinart is a finished product or that he'll definitely be a great player or anything like that. But it was in the best interests of the Cardinals to play him to find out if he was going to emerge as a starter in this league. To do that, I think they needed to fully commit to him in '10. Instead, they gave DA the lion's share of playing time and outright cut Leinart before the regular season. The didn't commit to him, they didn't give him a chance, they didn't keep him as a backup just in case and they didn't even get anything in compensation for him.

They completely blew it. There isn't really any debate over that. Warner is still buddies with Whis so I can kind of understand him siding with him when asked about Leinart but I've only seen the one time it was ever mentioned. Maybe there's more that you'd like to post?

A classic example of show me, don't tell me, which is in essence, the difference between Warner and Leinart. Just unbelievable that you of everyone here can't appreciate that.

And another example of you twisting history to fit your opinion. Warner was already showing signs of great improvement before Whis got to Arizona. The last two games of '06, Warner was already looking like himself again and it had nothing to do with Whiz or Haley.

 

[moklerman]

I'm not out to get in a pissing match with you,

hogwash. You've specifically done that on many occasions. I know you don't care and wouldn't take the time to look but my posts are always in response to, not started by, when it comes to pissing.

And just for clarification: I don't know a single message board member who "keeps score" on their post.

Apparently, you just don't understand. I wasn't speaking literally. It's just a figure of speech. Do you really not see that, even after I pointed it out earlier? It's just another way to say I was right and you were wrong.

 

[TJ]

hogwash. You've specifically done that on many occasions. I know you don't care and wouldn't take the time to look but my posts are always in response to, not started by, when it comes to pissing.

No I don't care, but you do; otherwise, you wouldnt be sifting through all of my posts on one thread to make a nonsensical retort. I dont have the time to go back and I dont recall an instance where you've been crass, but you are acting like a jackass this time. I think you'll be joining the likes of thesmel and Cody on my "ignore" list, since you've officially reached a level of annoyance which goes above and beyond comprehension.

Apparently, you just don't understand. I wasn't speaking literally. It's just a figure of speech. Do you really not see that, even after I pointed it out earlier?

I do. You're the first to tally score on a message board. Congrats

It's just another way to say I was right and you were wrong.

It's another way of saying you're insecure and out of touch with reality. If this is how you view discussions on a message board, stamp collecting is a great alternate hobby.

 

[Cheesebeef]

we need football.

 

[moklerman]

I think you'll be joining the likes of thesmel and Cody on my "ignore" list

Do it or don't. No need to talk about it. I certainly won't miss your, for lack of a better term, "interaction".

 

[desertdawg]

Do it or don't. No need to talk about it. I certainly won't miss your, for lack of a better term, "interaction".

Come on homie, the proof is in the pudding. The Leenart showed enough skills for some to say he never had a chance. The Leenart showed enough heart for other teams not to give him a chance. I won't go into the year by year reasons, or by the whatever, if Matty was valuable someone in the NFL would would know it.

No beef here, I tried to keep it short, like homie's career.

 

[moklerman]

Come on homie, the proof is in the pudding. The Leenart showed enough skills for some to say he never had a chance. The Leenart showed enough heart for other teams not to give him a chance. I won't go into the year by year reasons, or by the whatever, if Matty was valuable someone in the NFL would would know it.

No beef here, I tried to keep it short, like homie's career.

It's certainly possible that Leinart never gets another chance but I don't think he should, as it seems, be put in the JeMarcus Russell category. 17 career starts is just premature in determining whether or not he can make it. Look how long it took Brees to finally get it.

 

[desertdawg]

It's certainly possible that Leinart never gets another chance but I don't think he should, as it seems, be put in the JeMarcus Russell category. 17 career starts is just premature in determining whether or not he can make it. Look how long it took Brees to finally get it.

That's the name game (busts and badasses) I don't want to get caught up in. If you got Leinart's back that's cool.

 

[Duckjake]

we need football.

I agree. It's been since January 10th 2010 since the Cardinals played real football. That's a long drought.

 

[THESMEL]

Man crush

funny I have a man crush on Matty is BS. He was the best QB the Cardinals had last year and we cut him because the lousy team and coach didn't get behind him. Whiz said Matt is our starter, and we know what we have in him so we need to play the other QB's. So He started him under constant blitz and pulled him after a couple series, In which He had the best QB numbers in the NFL.

He was Blitzed and He got the ball out for completions that did not result in first downs! Like Warner didn't go 3 and out on 50% of his drives, I remember an 8 second 4 play drive with a 3 score lead!

Well then He benched him and He went 9-10 with a 130 QB rating in a back up roll, Matt ended with a 110 QB rating in the preseason under the worse circumstances I have ever seen MANUFACTURED by his Head Coach.

It has nothing to do with me, my personality or views. THE FACT is that Houston has offered Matt a 1st round tender, they have a top 10 QB starting already.

That makes Matt more valuable in the NFL than all but Fitz on the Cardinals. Who can we get a first round for? who would we value as a first round tender much less at the QB position?

My reality is not warped or sick, I've been screaming this the whole time, as some kick me as a doof! Har Har Matey's. Kolb will never be as good as Matt Leinart, Never!

Houston could trade Matt Schaub and be better after Leinart gets a year under his belt. Leinart has a 405 rookie record game, scored 2 td's in the first 1'4 of his first 2 NFL starts, multiple 100+ QB ratings, many 200+ yard games, then along came Whiz!

Kurt outplayed him and most others in the NFL, But that 1 Titan game, without reps and the worse circumstance possible proves Matt is better than 1/2 the starting QB's in the NFL.

But is not good enough for the struggling Cardinals.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/how-it-all-went-wrong-in-arizona-for-leinart


• The Attitude: Leinart ultimately paved his way out of the desert last week, by publicly questioning why Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt would name journeyman free agent addition Derek Anderson as the starter in the Week 3 preseason game against the Chicago Bears.

“I’m frustrated and disappointed,” moaned Leinart, who shouldn’t have felt blindsided – after all, he had seen starting opportunities yanked multiple times in the four seasons he played under Wiz. “I’ve been efficient. I’ve been accurate. I haven’t turned the ball over. I don’t know how we judge performance when you take 13 pass attempts to the other guy’s 40.” The no-nonsense Whisenhunt met with Leinart last Monday, heard him out, then promptly named Anderson the starter for the Thursday night preseason finale against the Redskins. Undrafted rookie Max Hall was the star of the 20-10 victory, completing 7 of 9 passes for 126 yards and leading the Cardinals to two touchdowns.
Leinart, like the afterthought he has become, saw some gratuitous snaps and completed 3 of 5 passes for 14 yards.

It's certainly possible that Leinart never gets another chance but I don't think he should, as it seems, be put in the JeMarcus Russell category. 17 career starts is just premature in determining whether or not he can make it. Look how long it took Brees to finally get it.

 

[THESMEL]

Kolb is overated

You can flip through his career stats and see why.


http://www.nfl.com/players/kevinkolb/gamelogs?id=KOL105037

Compare to

http://www.nfl.com/players/MattLeinart/gamelogs?id=LEI453701

Of course I want DM, but He can't win on the only team that ran less than the Cardinals. Nobody can
http://www.nfl.com/players/donovanmcnabb/careerstats?id=MCN017517

 

[Gee!]

Hasnt this same kinda thread already been made oh I dunno, at least 5 times?

 

[TJ]

Hasnt this same kinda thread already been made oh I dunno, at least 200 times?

FTFY