Kyler + Coaching

[Cheesebeef]

In the previous 9 season the Cards had 6 losing seasons which included four 5-11, a single 4-12 and a 6-10. And only 2 winning seasons. So I'm guessing most would have said yes.

You neglected to mention 2 .500 seasons (which you listed for Keim), went to Super Bowl and the second round of the playoffs the next year.

I sure as hell wouldn’t have been excited about that mediocre record you flashed and that’s because I’ve NEVER been one to accept “better than bad.”

 

[kerouac9]

@kerouac9

I didn't get a lot from the interview except everything is fine with Kyler Murray and injuries hurt the Cardinals last season. Personally I wanted more meat and potatoes about what went wrong.

Yeah. I didn't get a lot from it, either. It's interesting that the Super Bowl is coming back here. I didn't do anything around it last time; dunno if I'll do anything this year. I think that PHX has become a big enough city that even the Super Bowl hosting isn't a big deal, which is wild. I'm excited to hear 20% of the people I talk to claim that they're gonna put their place on Air BNB for Barrett Jackson/Super Bowl/Phoenix Open and none of them actually doing so.

It was pretty hilarious for Bidwill to say "you'll have to ask" Kliff and Keim questions about the team when he can make that happen, but hasn't.

He is right that the long-term QB extensions for Mahomes and Allen didn't happen until training camp.

You can't say that Wilks or Kliff are on Keim and not allow Keim the wins that came with Arians. It goes both ways.

I don't want him to stay but he is. No way Bidwill is firing him now.

I don't want to argue he's one of the better GM's in the NFL but his record says he is, or at least average. I don't think that says he is "better", more than likely there are just a lot of bad GM's around and being a GM is a tough job.

I guess you can look back at Arians' rosters those last two seasons and ask yourself whether Arians over- or under-performed the talent around him. Many people here were ready to run Arians out of town on a rail because they felt the Special teams coordinator were keeping us out of the playoffs and not the fact that Blaine Gabbert was starting a bunch of games.

I've said for a long time that if you look at most of Keim's decisions in a vaccuum, they all seem pretty good, if not inspired. But when you look at the rosters he constructs over the short and long term, you just don't see a vision there.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's a statistic, it's not an opinion!

There are the long time GM's like BB, Colbert, Loomis, Snead etc. Guys that have had 10+ drafts. Keim will drop into this bunch after this draft and actually be the 4th worse of 10.

But looking at the intermediate guys who have been in place less than 10 but more than 5 he does have the 2nd best record behind only Jon Robinson of the Titans.

The funny thing is, if you went back to 2012 and said "Your next GM will have 4 winning seasons from the next 9, 2 season of .500, a 3rd season that was practically .500 and 2 ugly losing seasons and a 76-67 record" I think most Cards fans would have said "Yes please. Sign me up". Arguably if Palmer isn't injured in 2014 and Todd Bowles doesn't leave in 2015 we have genuine SB shots.

I don't want him to stay. I think he's often blind to obvious weaknesses. There are obvious moves he could make that he never does. His drafting obviously sucks, although it was a brave move to bin Rosen and draft Kyler.

But objectively speaking he's not garbage. He's average. Maybe even slightly above average. But the franchise should aspire to better (but we should also acknowledge that the change may end up worse, which might be why Mike is hesitant).

Sometimes the worst thing you can have is someone who is a little bit good.

I’d agree with this assessment. It’s fair. I also want keim gone bc I think this team has reached its ceiling with him as gm.

 

[cardpa]

@kerouac9

I didn't get a lot from the interview except everything is fine with Kyler Murray and injuries hurt the Cardinals last season. Personally I wanted more meat and potatoes about what went wrong.

You just knew this was going to come up as an excuse sooner or later. Fact is the team really had two major long term injuries in Watt and Hopkins, the rest were short term and not for extended times. If you can't manage short term injuries for a couple of games or so, then you have problems. I don't count Williams because they went and got Ertz soon after Williams went down so in fact you had an improvement at TE.

 

[Mainstreet]

You just knew this was going to come up as an excuse sooner or later. Fact is the team really had two major long term injuries in Watt and Hopkins, the rest were short term and not for extended times. If you can't manage short term injuries for a couple of games or so, then you have problems. I don't count Williams because they went and got Ertz soon after Williams went down so in fact you had an improvement at TE.

Injuries to DeAndre Hopkins and Kyler Murray were mentioned in the interview but the Cardinals won two out of three games with Colt McCoy as quarterback.

IMO, the interview felt like throw another coat of paint on it and the Cardinals are ready to go. Everything was so general. It's like they are doubling down on what they are currently doing.

I thought the Cardinals needed to make a GM change but obviously that's not going to happen. This is where it begins.

 

[JeffGollin]

Stout - None of us are as good (or as smart) as we think we are.

During my 77 years as a Cardinal fan, I’ve seen the hard-nosed approach work…and fail. I’ve seen a warm, nurturing approach do likewise.

Fire everybody only to see the approach fail. Give Kyler another year or 2 only to see him break your heart.

If it were easy, 32 teams would make it to the Super Bowl each year. I am totally against ignoring gaping problems, but there’s something wrong with giving up on KM (kind of like throwing a bottle of ink at the Mona Lisa).

Part of me says “trash him.” Part of me says: “Give him a year or 2,”

Neither of us has all the answers....or we’d be Bill “Freakin’“ Belichik.

 

[football karma]

@kerouac9

I didn't get a lot from the interview except everything is fine with Kyler Murray and injuries hurt the Cardinals last season. Personally I wanted more meat and potatoes about what went wrong.

Mike B wants to sell tickets, etc to people who generally pay a lot less attention to the team than people on this board. To casual football fans, this explanation sounds plausible and gives them hope for next year.

i doubt he really feels that way -- if he did, he would have had no reason to get hot and bothered with Keim and Kliff immediately after the season was over.

so I believe the braintrust over there has a theory on what went wrong, i have no idea if its the correct diagnosis

 

[Mainstreet]

Mike B wants to sell tickets, etc to people who generally pay a lot less attention to the team than people on this board. To casual football fans, this explanation sounds plausible and gives them hope for next year.

i doubt he really feels that way -- if he did, he would have had no reason to get hot and bothered with Keim and Kliff immediately after the season was over.

so I believe the braintrust over there has a theory on what went wrong, i have no idea if its the correct diagnosis

There must be a lot of casual fans out there. The interview had a vanilla taste as far as I'm concerned.

Do we really know via sourced quotes that that Michael Bidwill was angry with Keim and Kingsbury after the season?

I certainly didn't hear any evidence he was upset in the slightest in the interview today.

If the team falls apart to due to the injury to DeAndre Hopkins they are in trouble.

 

[football karma]

Do we really know via sourced quotes that that Michael Bidwill was angry with Keim and Kingsbury after the season?

as many sourced quotes that say Kyler is immature and selfish

the reality is that an interview with the owner on the teams flagship station is going to be pretty unremarkable

if we were expecting " I put Keim and Kliff on notice" , that isnt realistic. No NFL owner talks like that

a question i wished they asked: Keim is in the final year of his contract. What are your plans?

 

[Mainstreet]

as many sourced quotes that say Kyler is immature and selfish

the reality is that an interview with the owner on the teams flagship station is going to be pretty unremarkable

if we were expecting " I put Keim and Kliff on notice" , that isnt realistic. No NFL owner talks like that

a question i wished they asked: Keim is in the final year of his contract. What are your plans?

I expected something more concrete from the interview but we know how that goes.

That would have been a great question. I wish they would have asked it but I doubt there would be any answer of substance.

 

[Stout]

Stout - None of us are as good (or as smart) as we think we are.

During my 77 years as a Cardinal fan, I’ve seen the hard-nosed approach work…and fail. I’ve seen a warm, nurturing approach do likewise.

Fire everybody only to see the approach fail. Give Kyler another year or 2 only to see him break your heart.

If it were easy, 32 teams would make it to the Super Bowl each year. I am totally against ignoring gaping problems, but there’s something wrong with giving up on KM (kind of like throwing a bottle of ink at the Mona Lisa).

Part of me says “trash him.” Part of me says: “Give him a year or 2,”

Neither of us has all the answers....or we’d be Bill “Freakin’“ Belichik.

Well stated. We of course must give KM another year or two. I mean, unless he throws a hissy fit and threatens holdouts and just totally makes himself persona non grata. I hope he can FINALLY mature in that time. We shall see.