Kyler Murray entering Draft

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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The Kingsbury Murray connection is a stretch. He played in a similar offense in college, but Rosen also did at times as well.

Air raid doesn't require a running qb
True. But his legs place an enormous amount of additional pressure on the defense. It’s not just a Wilson thing. Trubisky’s success this past year was due in large part to his legs. And then you look at the traditionally conservative offense of the ravens and they’ve gone all-in on a QB whose primary upside at present is his running ability. We might not be in a time of all running QBs, but we certainly have moved from the all pocket passer days.
 

Solar7

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How is Murray carving up Big XII defenses a discussion point, but Bosa dominating Big 10 offenses (at least from what I remember, it’s been a while) is not? Neither are very good.
Bosa's stuck with only a few guys he'll face off per game, Murray's touching the ball the entire time. A college defense may be weak in 9 of the 11 spots, which means Murray can just play away from that. Bosa doesn't get the luxury of not being double/triple teamed.
 

RON_IN_OC

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How is Murray carving up Big XII defenses a discussion point, but Bosa dominating Big 10 offenses (at least from what I remember, it’s been a while) is not? Neither are very good.
The Big 10, at least, pumps out NFL O Lineman...

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Buckybird

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Really? And how exactly is he any better now then when he was a freshman?
Because we drafted him :mrgreen:

He was my #2 guy last year behind the Touchdown Maker so I like him.

Because we hired K2 I like the Murray fit better.
 

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I'm not even going to dignify that with a list of players who prove that completely wrong. It's only very recently that rookie QBs even see the field this early, but feel free to show me all of the QBs who had their best seasons as rookies and then maintained it. The most successful ones had talent around them.

How about that midget Russel Wilson? The rest of the list you can look up yourself. I can save you some time by letting you know that Rosen isn’t on it.
 

ajcardfan

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Murray is the fastest QB, with many explosive runs in college, since probably Vick.

I am not unbiased. I knew Kevin Murray in college. We played pickup and intramural basketball games.
 

Dr. Jones

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You sit down and be quiet noob.
I almost brought up how his account (and choice of names) was started 3 days after we drafted Rosen. He may have some emotional equity wrapped up in his takes.

I will be happy with either pick. But in a crowd of uninspiring draft picks..... Bosa and Murray are our best choices IMO.

I understand the dead money hit..... but that extra year of rookie salary cap, combined with all of those skills just makes me think that KM is the better choice. Plus I think he wins us more games.

And then you factor in the marketability of him in the valley and I start drooling.

Whatever.
 

Solar7

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How about that midget Russel Wilson? The rest of the list you can look up yourself. I can save you some time by letting you know that Rosen isn’t on it.
Rookie Russell Wilson did enough to hold a team together that had an all-world defense, one of the league's best RBs, and a dominant, healthy offensive line.

Rosen, again, didn't have a single starter make it to the end of the season, and had a bare cupboard at WR with a defense that couldn't stop anyone.

Listen, I'm not saying Rosen is Andrew Luck, I'm just saying it's awfully early to give up on a guy who was given zero opportunity to succeed.
 

bojack

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How is Murray carving up Big XII defenses a discussion point, but Bosa dominating Big 10 offenses (at least from what I remember, it’s been a while) is not? Neither are very good.

Apples and Oranges. The DE just has to beat his man and you usually don't have a slouch playing opposite and if you're beating your guy you'll start to draw two opponents. BTW, the reason other conferences aren't known for explosive offense is because they have solid defenses. B12 isn't getting the best offensive talent on the planet, it's just they don't get a lot of talent compared to other conferences and where they fall behind most is defense.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Just released that not only is Kyler Murray not going to throw he’s not going to run or do any drills at the combine either .... What an effing joke. Lol
...said no one ever when a potential top draft pick decided to wait until his pro day for those exhibitions. The guys that do that at the combine are the exception to the rule these days.
 

Dr. Jones

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Apples and Oranges. The DE just has to beat his man and you usually don't have a slouch playing opposite and if you're beating your guy you'll start to draw two opponents. BTW, the reason other conferences aren't known for explosive offense is because they have solid defenses. B12 isn't getting the best offensive talent on the planet, it's just they don't get a lot of talent compared to other conferences and where they fall behind most is defense.
Who are the stud LT's in the B12 that Bosa beat?

I remember a bunch of jabronis and the one time he abused Mason Cole.

Maybe Ryan Ramczyk?
 

az jam

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...said no one ever when a potential top draft pick decided to wait until his pro day for those exhibitions. The guys that do that at the combine are the exception to the rule these days.

Right, lots of the top rated qbs don't work out at the Combine. Nothing new here.
 

ajcardfan

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And you keep riding that Murray **** homer

A few posters in this thread need to just relax a little. These are all opinions. Making it personal ruins the debate.

Profanity, even started out, is against rules. A blanket reminder for all. I dont like banning posters even for a day.
 

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A few posters in this thread need to just relax a little. These are all opinions. Making it personal ruins the debate.

Profanity, even started out, is against rules. A blanket reminder for all. I dont like banning posters even for a day.

Thats fine ban away. I have the right to express my opinion or disagree with others. I've never told anybody to shut up though. And i respect peoples opinions, regardless of wether i believe they are ridiculous or not
 

az jam

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Darren Urban
Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray said he’s meeting with the @AZCardinals here in Indy. Said he intends on being “bigger” than 195 he played at in college. Weighed in at 207.
 

Shane

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No. You’re being totally disingenuous. Top players pass in drills the time and no one blinks.

Absolutely you’ll have players pick and choose which drills are going to participate in or they miss them due to some injury. But it’s rare to have players out right pass on the entire process… Can you name me 10 highly thought of prospects in the last five years that have skipped the entire process when completely healthy?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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BM and Murray are very different players. Mayfield is a pocket passers who scrambles a bit to set up the pass. Murray was used quite a bit on designed runs.

My question is incredibly valid. Shorter QBs have to move around to see passing lanes. It's the reason that the NFL doesn't like short QBs. When you watch Murray, you see a guy who had a very clean pocket that he won't see any where in the NFL.

And with the Cardinals it's a pretty simple argument that he will rarely see clean pockets, often facing pressure immediately. And with all of the pressure, he will take lots of hits. How long will his 190 frame take those hits? It was nearly unanimous across the football world that there is no way in hell that Murray is 207 naturally and that's why he didn't work out.

There are too many unknowns to take Murray #1. Take the damn franchise defender. You already have a potential franchise QB. This is freaking madness.

According to PFF, Bosa had the highest edge grade they have ever assigned to an edge player. He destroys the blocker across from in the run game and the pass game. He gives the Cardinals the chance to have a top 5 defense for years to come almost immediately.

I believe that the Cardinals are going to be vastly improved this year. Rosen is going to be used correctly by a good offensive mind and Nick Bosa is going to be in contention for rookie of the year.
You could be right. But it could also turn out that Rosen sucks and last year wasn’t just the bad team around him and Bosa could be a flash in the pan. Truth is he only played a little over two years, never had double digit sacks in a year, was played sparingly because of the other talent in the team, a lot of the Bosa hype is projection, and we likely move him to outside linebacker. It’s very possible we end up with a bust QB and a less-than-impressive OLB.

Ultimately it comes down to these items for me:

We’ve already gone the unorthodox route with the KK hiring. If we are going to do this, go all-in in it. If he wants kyler, do it.

Man it would be nice to have a QB whose mere physical abilities places an additional element of pressure on a defense. It allows for more creative gameplanning and also provides a built-in mechanism for broken play emergency solutions.

All this and I’m not saying I’m all in on kyler. Unlike crimson and dr. Jones I’m not 100% convinced about kyler. But neither am I near convinced he’s not going to be the next football Jesus. But I can’t stand some of the arguments that are being used. His size is a legit concern. Baseball is a slightly secondary concern for me. But the other arguments are all stupid imo.
 

Shane

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Absolutely you’ll have players pick and choose which drills are going to participate in or they miss them due to some injury. But it’s rare to have players out right pass on the entire process… Can you name me 10 highly thought of prospects in the last five years that have skipped the entire process when completely healthy?


Better yet let’s be quarterback specific Ouchi can you name 4 top three quarterback prospects in the last five years that I’ve skipped the entire combine process not due to injury?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Absolutely you’ll have players pick and choose which drills are going to participate in or they miss them due to some injury. But it’s rare to have players out right pass on the entire process… Can you name me 10 highly thought of prospects in the last five years that have skipped the entire process when completely healthy?
Honestly I don’t care enough to spend the time researching it. But it’s really common for the top players in each draft. They wait for their pro days to maximize their draft position at the top. You can pretend you don’t think so, but I know you pay enough attention to know better.
 

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