Kyler Murray entering Draft

[HeHasRosen]

BM and Murray are very different players. Mayfield is a pocket passers who scrambles a bit to set up the pass. Murray was used quite a bit on designed runs.

My question is incredibly valid. Shorter QBs have to move around to see passing lanes. It's the reason that the NFL doesn't like short QBs. When you watch Murray, you see a guy who had a very clean pocket that he won't see any where in the NFL.

And with the Cardinals it's a pretty simple argument that he will rarely see clean pockets, often facing pressure immediately. And with all of the pressure, he will take lots of hits. How long will his 190 frame take those hits? It was nearly unanimous across the football world that there is no way in hell that Murray is 207 naturally and that's why he didn't work out.

There are too many unknowns to take Murray #1. Take the damn franchise defender. You already have a potential franchise QB. This is freaking madness.

According to PFF, Bosa had the highest edge grade they have ever assigned to an edge player. He destroys the blocker across from in the run game and the pass game. He gives the Cardinals the chance to have a top 5 defense for years to come almost immediately.

I believe that the Cardinals are going to be vastly improved this year. Rosen is going to be used correctly by a good offensive mind and Nick Bosa is going to be in contention for rookie of the year.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner folks

 

[TJ]

BM and Murray are very different players. Mayfield is a pocket passers who scrambles a bit to set up the pass. Murray was used quite a bit on designed runs.

My question is incredibly valid. Shorter QBs have to move around to see passing lanes. It's the reason that the NFL doesn't like short QBs. When you watch Murray, you see a guy who had a very clean pocket that he won't see any where in the NFL.

And with the Cardinals it's a pretty simple argument that he will rarely see clean pockets, often facing pressure immediately. And with all of the pressure, he will take lots of hits. How long will his 190 frame take those hits? It was nearly unanimous across the football world that there is no way in hell that Murray is 207 naturally and that's why he didn't work out.

There are too many unknowns to take Murray #1. Take the damn franchise defender. You already have a potential franchise QB. This is freaking madness.

According to PFF, Bosa had the highest edge grade they have ever assigned to an edge player. He destroys the blocker across from in the run game and the pass game. He gives the Cardinals the chance to have a top 5 defense for years to come almost immediately.

I believe that the Cardinals are going to be vastly improved this year. Rosen is going to be used correctly by a good offensive mind and Nick Bosa is going to be in contention for rookie of the year.

Bingo. There really isn’t a reason to overthink this.

Take Bosa and watch him and Jones destroy QBs

 

[Shane]

Care to make a gentleman’s wager on that one???

Absolutely

 

[slanidrac16]

Cards are not drafting Murray. As many questions people have about Rosen there are as many or more about Murray plus 8m of dead cap space. KK took this job and apparently convinced Bidwill and Kiem that he can turn Rosen into a top flight QB. We will here a lot of rumors over the next 2 months but if we do anything it will be to trade out of the first pick ( mistake). What we can’t do is think we can turn this team into a bonifide super bowl contender in 1 off season. We can be competitive and that’s what we should expect. But looking at a more realistic 2 year plan means another draft and another round of free agency with a ton of cap space next year.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Absolutely

This is going to be fun. Pick your poison.

 

[overseascardfan]

You can’t take the huge gamble with Murray with the #1 overall pick. If you were picking mid round or later then you have more margin for error. If Keim takes Murray #1 and it doesn’t work out, that’s the nail in his coffin. If they are staying at #1 the safe, consensus pick is Bosa.

 

[Solar7]

You can’t take the huge gamble with Murray with the #1 overall pick. If you were picking mid round or later then you have more margin for error. If Keim takes Murray #1 and it doesn’t work out, that’s the nail in his coffin. If they are staying at #1 the safe, consensus pick is Bosa.

If this franchise picks Murray and he doesn't succeed (or runs to baseball), we have a TON of egg on our face, Keim loses his job, and this franchise bottom feeds for the next five years. With the Rosen and Bosa combo, even if Rosen doesn't pan out, we can try again in a coming draft.

I know I'm being risk-averse, but I think at 1, you have to take the player with no flaws, and to me that's Bosa.

 

[az jam]

If he was groomed to be a QB since he was 5, stat the hell away from him.

So was Clausen, Barkley, Sanchez, Marinovich, and all those other SoCal QB busts.

That means most of his upside has already been exhausted.

Bad argument . Lots of success stories with strong fathers grooming sons like Peyton and El Manning, Andrew Luck, John Elway, Jim Harbaugh, etc. of course they didn't go to USC .

 

[Crimson Warrior]

BM and Murray are very different players. Mayfield is a pocket passers who scrambles a bit to set up the pass. Murray was used quite a bit on designed runs.

My question is incredibly valid. Shorter QBs have to move around to see passing lanes. It's the reason that the NFL doesn't like short QBs. When you watch Murray, you see a guy who had a very clean pocket that he won't see any where in the NFL.

And with the Cardinals it's a pretty simple argument that he will rarely see clean pockets, often facing pressure immediately. And with all of the pressure, he will take lots of hits. How long will his 190 frame take those hits? It was nearly unanimous across the football world that there is no way in hell that Murray is 207 naturally and that's why he didn't work out.

There are too many unknowns to take Murray #1. Take the damn franchise defender. You already have a potential franchise QB. This is freaking madness.

According to PFF, Bosa had the highest edge grade they have ever assigned to an edge player. He destroys the blocker across from in the run game and the pass game. He gives the Cardinals the chance to have a top 5 defense for years to come almost immediately.

I believe that the Cardinals are going to be vastly improved this year. Rosen is going to be used correctly by a good offensive mind and Nick Bosa is going to be in contention for rookie of the year.

Bolded statement is false. In fact, the opposite is true.

Yes, Murray was used more on designed runs Krang. However, in terms of being a pocket passer, Murray is at least the equal of Mayfield. Both are generally pass-first, both are exceptionally accurate, both read defenses very well, both are fiery competitors.

That's what makes Murray worth the #1 pick Krang. He is, first and foremost, a franchise-changing QB, ala Mayfield and Mahomes. And, as a ridiculous bonus, he also possesses jaw-dropping athleticism. Murray won't make NFL linebackers look silly like he did their college counterparts, but he'll still beat them to the edge. You can believe that sir.

But the rest of your post makes sense. Stick with the narrative of Rosen + Bosa > Murray. That is hard to argue against.

 

[HGC]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...mments-on-josh-rosen-fuels-trade-speculation/

Keim’s doing what he should be doing. Drawing up interest. Trading Rosen after a disappointing rookie year gets you pennies on the dollar. No way he brings the kind of return the Cardinals would need to get a deal done especially if it’s known they’re going QB with the first pick.They hired Kingsbury because he’s a supposed offensive mastermind so let him do his thing.
Draft Bosa, Allen or Williams and give Rosen some help before you send him on his way for a guy who wouldn’t have looked any better than Josh last year. None of the rookies drafted last year would’ve done squat behind that line.
And for the record I like Murray and think he could be successful playing in Kliff’s system but paying high and selling low is going to lead to failure more times than not. Not to mention if Rosen sucks they’ll likely be bad enough to have a shot at Lawrence in 2021.

 

[slanidrac16]

You can’t take the huge gamble with Murray with the #1 overall pick. If you were picking mid round or later then you have more margin for error. If Keim takes Murray #1 and it doesn’t work out, that’s the nail in his coffin. If they are staying at #1 the safe, consensus pick is Bosa.

The same was said about Lamar Jackson and I agree.

 

[PACardsFan]

The same was said about Lamar Jackson and I agree.

He’s significantly more accurate than Jackson could ever be.

 

[slanidrac16]

He’s significantly more accurate than Jackson could ever be.

Won’t argue that but he did bring a certain kind of excitement with his strong arm and running ability.

 

[BW52]

The same was said about Lamar Jackson and I agree.

Lamar played every game in select packages with limited exposure until Flacco was nicked up and Jackson started the last 7 games (6-1 record) and the playoff game (poor 1st half,better 2nd half but lost when sacked on last drive).Jackson also said he has a lot of work to do working on his passing technique etc; and realizes Teams schemed ways to negates his mobility and scrambling.

In spite of being the "guy who revolutionizes" the NFL Murray will face the same thing and the fact that he is shorter than every other QB in the NFL will not make things go as smoothly as the Okiegroupies think it will.Having the pressure of being a top- pick will not be easy either.

 

[Southpaw]

BM has 3.5 years of division 1 college football experience. Murray is a one year wonder. Pretty hard to compare how their college success will translate or the NFL just because they both played at OU.

Not to mention a 3 inch height difference which could be big in the NFL.

Actually he played at Texas A & M as a Freshman. He sucked. Then transferred.

He seems to have a penchant for "quitting" when you factor this in with the Oakland A's fiasco. He's a jumper.

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...erback-kyler-murray-transferring-texas-aggies

Murray, a 5-foot-11, 188-pound former Gatorade National Player of the Year and five-star prospect from Allen (Texas) High, appeared in eight games this season. He started three games, completing 72 of 121 passes for 686 yards and five touchdowns and five interceptions, while adding 335 yards and a touchdown rushing on 53 carries.

 

[BW52]

He’s significantly more accurate than Jackson could ever be.

How will being 5`10 help his accuracy in the NFL when he is playing against the best players around instead of in the pisspoor Big 12 defensive league?

 

[Southpaw]

Bad argument . Lots of success stories with strong fathers grooming sons like Peyton and El Manning, Andrew Luck, John Elway, Jim Harbaugh, etc. of course they didn't go to USC .

Mannings were coached up by an NFL QB (father)
Andrew Luck coached up by an NFL QB ( father)
John Elway coached up by an NCAA Football HC
Jim Harbaugh was coached up by an NCAA football HC ( father)

 

[Dr. Jones]

BM and Murray are very different players. Mayfield is a pocket passers who scrambles a bit to set up the pass. Murray was used quite a bit on designed runs.

My question is incredibly valid. Shorter QBs have to move around to see passing lanes. It's the reason that the NFL doesn't like short QBs. When you watch Murray, you see a guy who had a very clean pocket that he won't see any where in the NFL.

And with the Cardinals it's a pretty simple argument that he will rarely see clean pockets, often facing pressure immediately. And with all of the pressure, he will take lots of hits. How long will his 190 frame take those hits? It was nearly unanimous across the football world that there is no way in hell that Murray is 207 naturally and that's why he didn't work out.

There are too many unknowns to take Murray #1. Take the damn franchise defender. You already have a potential franchise QB. This is freaking madness.

According to PFF, Bosa had the highest edge grade they have ever assigned to an edge player. He destroys the blocker across from in the run game and the pass game. He gives the Cardinals the chance to have a top 5 defense for years to come almost immediately.

I believe that the Cardinals are going to be vastly improved this year. Rosen is going to be used correctly by a good offensive mind and Nick Bosa is going to be in contention for rookie of the year.

Great post Krang and honestly I agree with most of this. My argument is to A: Take Bosa at 1. then B: Hopefully trade Rosen to a team like the Giants or maybe even Chandler Jones to the Jets and then get Kyler there. Taking Kyler @ 1 requires some seriously huge balls with Bosa on the board, but all I can think about is below......

Bingo. There really isn’t a reason to overthink this.

Take Bosa and watch him and Jones destroy QBs

This comment could have been said when Clowney went 1 and then Mack went later.
No DPOY this century was the #1 pick. The Donalds, Macks, Watt's, Kuechly's, Polamalu's & Suggs, all came AFTER the slam dunk #1 choice. In fact, the last was Bruce Smith in 1996. And his butt was drafted in 1985. How is this not factored into your "The %'s are against short QB arguments?

The %'s are just as bad for #1 picks on defense being transcendent players at their position. Good maybe but not DPOY level.

Since 1980:

• Myles Garrett
• Clowney
• Mario Williams
• Courtney Brown
• Dan Wilkenson
• Steve Emtman
• Russell Maryland
• Aundray Bruce
• Bruce Smith
• Kenneth Sims

Thats it...... And only 1 as of me writing this....... is or will be a HOF player. Garrett is the only one left IMO with a shot at it.

p.s. DAMN... this draft now sucks IMO.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What works is well known.I am looking at the talent...and I see Nick Bosa as top player.You guys ( Murrays fan club) keep thinking Murray is Russell Wilson 2.0...….I think he is Doug Flutie 2.0.THe NFL isn`t the Big 12.

Here’s where the flutie analogy falls apart:

Murray is much faster/more elusive than flutie ever was

The nfl is much different than it was in flutie’s day with RPO and spread formations stretching defenses a lot more creating more open space opportunities.

None of that ensures Murray will be successful, but I think those elements significantly undercut any comp to flutie.

 

[DVontel]

Great post Krang and honestly I agree with most of this. My argument is to A: Take Bosa at 1. then B: Hopefully trade Rosen to a team like the Giants or maybe even Chandler Jones to the Jets and then get Kyler there. Taking Kyler @ 1 requires some seriously huge balls with Bosa on the board, but all I can think about is below......


This comment could have been said when Clowney went 1 and then Mack went later.
No DPOY this century was the #1 pick. The Donalds, Macks, Watt's, Kuechly's, Polamalu's & Suggs, all came AFTER the slam dunk #1 choice. In fact, the last was Bruce Smith in 1996. And his butt was drafted in 1985. How is this not factored into your "The %'s are against short QB arguments?

The %'s are just as bad for #1 picks on defense being transcendent players at their position. Good maybe but not DPOY level.

Since 1980:

• Myles Garrett
• Clowney
• Mario Williams
• Courtney Brown
• Dan Wilkenson
• Steve Emtman
• Russell Maryland
• Aundray Bruce
• Bruce Smith
• Kenneth Sims

Thats it...... And only 1 as of me writing this....... is or will be a HOF player. Garrett is the only one left IMO with a shot at it.

p.s. DAMN... this draft now sucks IMO.

That's certainly a way to get better.

 

[HeHasRosen]

Actually he played at Texas A & M as a Freshman. He sucked. Then transferred.

He seems to have a penchant for "quitting" when you factor this in with the Oakland A's fiasco. He's a jumper.

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...erback-kyler-murray-transferring-texas-aggies

But trust the Murray groupies! It has nothing to do with his HC, his teams talent, or playing in a horrible defensive conference! His success is all on him. Same with Rosen. Him doing poorly has nothing to do with the state of his team. Its all on him!

Do you see a trend here?

 

[DVontel]

Do we try again with Tua/Herbert then Lawrence if Kyler has a forgettable rookie season?

 

[Solar7]

Great post Krang and honestly I agree with most of this. My argument is to A: Take Bosa at 1. then B: Hopefully trade Rosen to a team like the Giants or maybe even Chandler Jones to the Jets and then get Kyler there. Taking Kyler @ 1 requires some seriously huge balls with Bosa on the board, but all I can think about is below......

You must be registered for see images

So Rosen is worthless compared to Kyler Murray, but for some reason the Giants are going to give us a higher pick than we spent on him last year after a bad year, with Murray on the board? Or, you're willing to give up our proven, elite pass rusher for a guy who has never played an NFL snap, and a 5'10 QB?

The mental gymnastics here are insane.

This comment could have been said when Clowney went 1 and then Mack went later.
No DPOY this century was the #1 pick. The Donalds, Macks, Watt's, Kuechly's, Polamalu's & Suggs, all came AFTER the slam dunk #1 choice. In fact, the last was Bruce Smith in 1996. And his butt was drafted in 1985. How is this not factored into your "The %'s are against short QB arguments?

The %'s are just as bad for #1 picks on defense being transcendent players at their position. Good maybe but not DPOY level.

Since 1980:

• Myles Garrett
• Clowney
• Mario Williams
• Courtney Brown
• Dan Wilkenson
• Steve Emtman
• Russell Maryland
• Aundray Bruce
• Bruce Smith
• Kenneth Sims

Thats it...... And only 1 as of me writing this....... is or will be a HOF player. Garrett is the only one left IMO with a shot at it.

p.s. DAMN... this draft now sucks IMO.

Let's be honest, the odds are against us drafting the DPOY. But it's about the long term fit for the team. In the past 30 years, the #1 overall pick has been a HOF consideration in... maybe 4 instances? More likely 3?

 

[HGC]

Do we try again with Tua/Herbert then Lawrence if Kyler has a forgettable rookie season?

The Steelers or Patriots will suck at the right time. One of them will wind up with Lawrence.

 

[BW52]

Here’s where the flutie analogy falls apart:

Murray is much faster/more elusive than flutie ever was

The nfl is much different than it was in flutie’s day with RPO and spread formations stretching defenses a lot more creating more open space opportunities.

None of that ensures Murray will be successful, but I think those elements significantly undercut any comp to flutie.

IMO the defenses are better than Fluties era.Better athletes.Defenses change to react to the offense trends.Always has and always will.Short QBs aren`t going to be able to get clear lanes to throw in the pocket so rolling out will be needed often .Smart defensive coaches can and will scheme to keep the QB contain and limit his effectiveness.It does and will happen.