But he chimes in on this all the same
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Kyler Murray has been working out since Jan
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To be fair he's not wrong. Chuck doesn't deserve a pile on. It's his job as a reporter to question these things.
(The rest of this isn't aimed at you Brian it's a general rant
)All Chuck did was question why we haven't seen or heard Kyler has been working on his technique and mental aspects of his game. Preferably with a QB coach.
Josh Allen did it last off season and got significantly better. Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Sam Darnold and Joe Burrow have worked with Palmer, and there are other QB's who work with other coaches in the offseason. Kyler is far from flawless despite his talent and isn't above working on his craft with guys that can help his game.
Now Kyler's response was to a whole different question (which is peak Twitter. If you can't argue the point at hand then pretend the point was something else). We know he's been working out. Having his strength coach post workout videos doesn't make me feel better frankly. I already knew and expected that.
The fact that they are posting those videos means he hasn't been training with QB coaches, or that would have been posted. Plus it says he's been in the gym every day. I don't give a crap how much Kyler can bench. What he needs to work on is reading defenses and going through his progressions (as well as some technical issues). That's what I want to see videos of.
It concerns me that he thinks he might be above this. That he's a 1st round pick. He's been coached by his Dad his whole life. That he already has everything he needs. He doesn't.
Now, I know there are some that want to leap to his defense here and say "But OROTY", or "but this stat". Would you rather our QB be honing his craft to get better in areas he's been struggling or not? The answer from everyone is yes, you would. And he isn't. And he definitely isn't because part of the package that comes with working with these coaches is they let everyone know they are for PR purposes.
And Kliff isn't helping him. As discussed in the other thread coaches don't have the time to do much technical coaching with having to install gameplans, game prep etc. They might get OTA's and that's it.
PACardsFan
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To be clear, K1 isn't struggling with anything. Like EVERY QB in the NFL, he has to continue to improve in areas that he's already good at. Knowing how this kid was raised, and his determination to be great, I'm certain he's working on every aspect of his development each and EVERY day. He's the very least of my concerns with this football team.
gimpy
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To be fair he's not wrong. Chuck doesn't deserve a pile on. It's his job as a reporter to question these things.
(The rest of this isn't aimed at you Brian it's a general rant
All Chuck did was question why we haven't seen or heard Kyler has been working on his technique and mental aspects of his game. Preferably with a QB coach.
Josh Allen did it last off season and got significantly better. Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Sam Darnold and Joe Burrow have worked with Palmer, and there are other QB's who work with other coaches in the offseason. Kyler is far from flawless despite his talent and isn't above working on his craft with guys that can help his game.
Now Kyler's response was to a whole different question (which is peak Twitter. If you can't argue the point at hand then pretend the point was something else). We know he's been working out. Having his strength coach post workout videos doesn't make me feel better frankly. I already knew and expected that.
The fact that they are posting those videos means he hasn't been training with QB coaches, or that would have been posted. Plus it says he's been in the gym every day. I don't give a crap how much Kyler can bench. What he needs to work on is reading defenses and going through his progressions (as well as some technical issues). That's what I want to see videos of.
It concerns me that he thinks he might be above this. That he's a 1st round pick. He's been coached by his Dad his whole life. That he already has everything he needs. He doesn't.
Now, I know there are some that want to leap to his defense here and say "But OROTY", or "but this stat". Would you rather our QB be honing his craft to get better in areas he's been struggling or not? The answer from everyone is yes, you would. And he isn't. And he definitely isn't because part of the package that comes with working with these coaches is they let everyone know they are for PR purposes.
And Kliff isn't helping him. As discussed in the other thread coaches don't have the time to do much technical coaching with having to install gameplans, game prep etc. They might get OTA's and that's it.
I see a lot of suppositions and guess work in your post.
Such as?
The only assumption is that he hasn't been working with a QB coach but that's based on his own coach saying he's been in the gym in Texas every day since Jan and there being nothing from any QB coach talking about him.
Apart from the obvious coaching Kyler would get the other thing you get from these things is a bunch of hype. Have a look at how many times Jordan Palmer has appeared on TV or in an article talking about how great or talented Josh Allen is.
If it was happening it would be in the media somewhere. Either from Palmer (or the coach himself), one of the other players training with them (there are usually a handful at once) or one of the media guys like Schefter or Rapaport. I don't think there's any world where Kyler has been having super secret off season coaching.
So I'm confident in that reasoning.
Chuck is literally talking to Mitch in his original post that Kyler calls out.
SoonerLou
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Maybe it was the angle but the last shot at the end made me think he was running Lamar level fast. If he gets that long speed..phew
Deshaun and other QBs work out with QB coach Quincy Avery as well. Some worked with George Whitfield, etc etcTo be fair he's not wrong. Chuck doesn't deserve a pile on. It's his job as a reporter to question these things.
(The rest of this isn't aimed at you Brian it's a general rant
All Chuck did was question why we haven't seen or heard Kyler has been working on his technique and mental aspects of his game. Preferably with a QB coach.
Josh Allen did it last off season and got significantly better. Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Sam Darnold and Joe Burrow have worked with Palmer, and there are other QB's who work with other coaches in the offseason. Kyler is far from flawless despite his talent and isn't above working on his craft with guys that can help his game.
Now Kyler's response was to a whole different question (which is peak Twitter. If you can't argue the point at hand then pretend the point was something else). We know he's been working out. Having his strength coach post workout videos doesn't make me feel better frankly. I already knew and expected that.
The fact that they are posting those videos means he hasn't been training with QB coaches, or that would have been posted. Plus it says he's been in the gym every day. I don't give a crap how much Kyler can bench. What he needs to work on is reading defenses and going through his progressions (as well as some technical issues). That's what I want to see videos of.
It concerns me that he thinks he might be above this. That he's a 1st round pick. He's been coached by his Dad his whole life. That he already has everything he needs. He doesn't.
Now, I know there are some that want to leap to his defense here and say "But OROTY", or "but this stat". Would you rather our QB be honing his craft to get better in areas he's been struggling or not? The answer from everyone is yes, you would. And he isn't. And he definitely isn't because part of the package that comes with working with these coaches is they let everyone know they are for PR purposes.
And Kliff isn't helping him. As discussed in the other thread coaches don't have the time to do much technical coaching with having to install gameplans, game prep etc. They might get OTA's and that's it.
What have those guys accomplished more than Kevin Murray. Talkin past resumes before being known QB Guru's. Who is to say he isnt getting great QB coaching. And its simply Kyler at this stage of development hasnt been able to translate the drill to the field (which is normal for most young QBs)
Again maybe he should try another QB coach. However, there is a sense that he NEEDS another QB coach which is really hard to tell. Palmer hasnt done Jarrett Stidham, Blake Bortles and Kyle Allen any favors.
And even Jordan Palmer said Ken Dorsey (Buffalo's QB coach) deserves most of the credit for Josh Allen's improvement.
Jordan Palmer was Josh Allen's offseason QB coach when people considered him a bottom 3rd QB in 2019. It all came together for him in 2020. So this isnt knocking Palmer. I think he's good at what he does. However, sometimes it takes players a while for it to come together.
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Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
To be fair he's not wrong. Chuck doesn't deserve a pile on. It's his job as a reporter to question these things.
(The rest of this isn't aimed at you Brian it's a general rant
All Chuck did was question why we haven't seen or heard Kyler has been working on his technique and mental aspects of his game. Preferably with a QB coach.
Josh Allen did it last off season and got significantly better. Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Sam Darnold and Joe Burrow have worked with Palmer, and there are other QB's who work with other coaches in the offseason. Kyler is far from flawless despite his talent and isn't above working on his craft with guys that can help his game.
Now Kyler's response was to a whole different question (which is peak Twitter. If you can't argue the point at hand then pretend the point was something else). We know he's been working out. Having his strength coach post workout videos doesn't make me feel better frankly. I already knew and expected that.
The fact that they are posting those videos means he hasn't been training with QB coaches, or that would have been posted. Plus it says he's been in the gym every day. I don't give a crap how much Kyler can bench. What he needs to work on is reading defenses and going through his progressions (as well as some technical issues). That's what I want to see videos of.
It concerns me that he thinks he might be above this. That he's a 1st round pick. He's been coached by his Dad his whole life. That he already has everything he needs. He doesn't.
Now, I know there are some that want to leap to his defense here and say "But OROTY", or "but this stat". Would you rather our QB be honing his craft to get better in areas he's been struggling or not? The answer from everyone is yes, you would. And he isn't. And he definitely isn't because part of the package that comes with working with these coaches is they let everyone know they are for PR purposes.
And Kliff isn't helping him. As discussed in the other thread coaches don't have the time to do much technical coaching with having to install gameplans, game prep etc. They might get OTA's and that's it.
Kyler didn't post any video, his personal trainer did.
This is all ridiculously stupid.
SoonerLou
ASFN Addict
This good thing is all this will be settled on the field next season. If he regresses/doesnt improve much then Kliff/Keim should tell him to go an alternative route. Kyle Shannahan and John Beck are good friends and he had Trey Lance switch from Quincy Avery to Beck. In previous interviews, Kliff seemed good with Kyler working with his dad. So if it doesnt work out then Kliff needs to step in and tell him to change his approach.
I think Kliff is just banking on it being an experience issue at the moment for Kyler and things will come together in time.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Absence of evidence isnt evidence of absence.
Murray is mostly an introvert and doesn't post "Hey look at me!" stuff. That's just not the way he is wired.
I will be concerned if Murray doesn't take a leap this year. Like @kerouac9 stated, Murray showed incremental improvement last year. If he can do the same this year or better, I will be happy.
But the narrative that Murray played alot better last year just isn't quite true. He grew alot as a Quarterback, but still needs to grow a lot as a passer.
Murray is mostly an introvert and doesn't post "Hey look at me!" stuff. That's just not the way he is wired.
I will be concerned if Murray doesn't take a leap this year. Like @kerouac9 stated, Murray showed incremental improvement last year. If he can do the same this year or better, I will be happy.
But the narrative that Murray played alot better last year just isn't quite true. He grew alot as a Quarterback, but still needs to grow a lot as a passer.
Dr. Jones
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Solid. +1
SoonerLou
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I'll agree based on how bad he ended the year. However, at about 9 to 10 games into the season I thought he was clearly better than his rookie year as an overall player. Then it all changed. He's gotta start finishing seasons better and know how to play hurt.
His footwork needs a lot of work so I would say he is struggling with that and reading defenses.
CardsSunsDbacks
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This. Actually I would say he was quite a bit better than his rookie year through 14 games, but played very poorly in back to back games to end the season (especially the last game against the Rams).
tnmike
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Appears like another manufactured way to be pissed off about something
RON_IN_OC
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He might be, but isn't that Walter Mitchell quoted tweet from him?
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Yes and no. All year long, Murray still regularly threw off his back foot. He still needs to learn to step into his throws (footwork). This is the primary reason so many of passes between the numbers sailed on him.
Murray is an accurate thrower when he has good mechanics, but his mechanics have been wildly inconsistent.
I expect him to improve alone just from having an improved center who can improve line calls and block interior pressure.
people seem to forget he flew the offense to texas to workout with him and set everything up. probably does it again.
What have they accomplished that Kevin Murray hasn't? Everything?
How many NFL QB's has Kevin Murray coached? I'm extremely uncomfortable with the idea that Kevin Murray is some kind of QB coach that is proficient enough to coach an NFL QB. He has coached precisely nobody to success except his son and Kyler success is mostly due to god given talent.
Kevin Murray has a website that looks like it was knocked together in 1996 and a list of testimonials that ends in 2017, are all high school QB's, not one of which went on to play college ball that I can see. He's a dad, that taught his kid the fundamentals he learned as a mediocre college QB, which was no doubt invaluable to Kyler very early on. He surpassed what his Dad can teach him a long, long time ago.
As for Palmers failures, well you can't polish a turd, but this isn't about Palmer. I don't care who he works with, but he should be working with someone, if not on technique then at least on the metal aspects.
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TaylorSwift
Hall of Famer
He needs to be more mature and not comment on these sorts of things.
The work will be seen in the results
The work will be seen in the results
I know his coach did. You think it's coincidence a video where he obviously knows he is being filmed was released the day after someone questioned his off season work? And he knew nothing about it?
The video is superfluous anyway, that's not the point. The point is I, and I think most fans, would be happier if we knew he was working on the flaws in his game and not how much he can bench.
CardsSunsDbacks
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It's very possible that that was simply a member of his team feeling the need to to stick up for him by releasing that tweet. We have no idea as to whether Murray asked for that to be released.
Generally speaking Murray isn't posting work out stuff so we have no idea as to the exact things he is working on. I will say that Murray seems to have a good head on his shoulders so I find it hard to believe he isn't working on the things that need work.
I loves working out in the gym, I'll give him that, but then that can be addictive.
I'm not so confident in the rest the "I find it hard to believe he isn't working on the things that need work" purely because I didn't see the leap last year I think we should have done. I know it was a weird offseason but that didn't stop him working on his game outside of OTA's.
Do you remember the expectation for him going into last year? Pundit's were talking about the "2nd year leap" and how he was going to emulate Mahomes, Watson, Lamar etc. He was in the pre season MVP conversation. Yet as a passer he only improved incrementally, and surely most of that was down to adding Hopkins. He was a little better in most categories. 1% higher TD percentage. A little better in comp %. Same on INT's. Marginally better in YPA.
Marginal improvement as a passer. In fact I thought his mechanics took a step back from him rookie year. Where he exploded and gained nearly all attention was Kliff taking the shakles off his running.
So I'm struggling to be optimistic about how much of a leap he's going to make in 2021 when there wasn't much of one in 2020.
SoonerLou
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David Blough is one of them.
And here is the little secret that got Jordan Palmer, Quincy Avery and others QB prospects. They got to know these guys as kids in the Elite 11 trials as QB coaches. Fast forward 3 or 4 years later and they go back to those guys as QB coaches. So to inform you those guys are GIVEN the top QB prospects and allowed to work with them. In fact some of the QB coaches got into Elite 11 by simpy being friends with Trent Dilfer. That doesnt mean those arent good coaches. That means they got the opportunity.
football karma
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the upside argument:
1. K1 came into the NFL as a very inexperienced QB. Relative to Mahomes, Lamar Jackson or Russell Wilson, K1 had something like 750-850 fewer attempts in college. A decent comp is Josh Allen, who had only 150 more attempts -- and his jump was year 3.
2. No offseason last year. No OTAs, no minicamp, no preseason games.
he made strides: completion %, yards per attempt and TD / Int ratio all improved -- but only moderately. So room to get better.
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