Kyler Murray is named OROY

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

So now it’s going to be a litmus test for the future? Weren’t the board was concerned he didn’t have too many snaps in college, and had only one year?? Now KM has destroyed that notion about having only one year for a qb is a concern (and I argued about Cam having one year of D1 and being a success as well).

RG3, Cam, and Vince YOUNG plays so much different from KM. And I do think that KM is better than Dak. If he was on the Cowboys, they would be in the playoffs.

Why wouldn’t it be a litmus test? It’s the only data we have to compared to past quarterbacks who won rookie of the year (which is really a recent phenomenon in the history of the league). I think everyone on this board knows that I’ve had a very skeptical eye when it comes to Murray and I continue to do so.

Absolutely there are flashes of his talent, but I’m not ready to anoint him because he won this award.

 

[PACardsFan]

Yeah, in no way should this be qualified. I'm high on the kid, but you trade any QB in the league for Mahomes 10 times out of 10. No possibly about it

That's your opinion, and many would agree with you. My point wasn't to start an argument over who is better between Mahomes & Murray. Mahomes has already established himself as great, but was also blessed being drafted by a much more offensively talented team & being able to sit & learn his rookie season. Murray was drafted by arguably the worst Cardinal team in their history. Much different set of circumstances. Mahomes is already a given & we'll know more about Murray very soon. Let me leave you with this question. KK coached Mahomes his entire career at TT. KK has already said that KM is the best HS QB he had ever seen. Starting his coaching career at TT, if given the choice between Mahomes & Murray, who would have been his first choice? I say Murray.

 

[Vacard]

Why wouldn’t it be a litmus test? It’s the only data we have to compared to past quarterbacks who won rookie of the year (which is really a recent phenomenon in the history of the league). I think everyone on this board knows that I’ve had a very skeptical eye when it comes to Murray and I continue to do so.

Absolutely there are flashes of his talent, but I’m not ready to anoint him because he won this award.

Because as i said, the one year in college argument doesn’t work anymore if he’s going to pan out. So why would ROY be used in the same context?

 

[PACardsFan]

That wasnt the only issue with Baker though. Freddie Kitchens was an absolute disaster as a head coach and offensive game planner.

Agree. Let's also not forget that the Browns OL was pathetic & Baker doesn't have the ability to escape that KM possesses. With better protection & better coaching, Mayfield will be just fine.

 

[slanidrac16]

Agree. Let's also not forget that the Browns OL was pathetic & Baker doesn't have the ability to escape that KM possesses. With better protection & better coaching, Mayfield will be just fine.

Add to that the whole clubhouse was a zoo.

 

[SoonerLou]

Freddie Kitchens was his OC during his most successful run as a rookie.

I don't understand why we keep making "yeah but" exceptions for every guy who turned out to stink. For one reason or another, they did. Baker might get it together, he might not. But as of today, Browns fans aren't clamoring that they know they have their QBotF. RG3 fans (like my dad) had to spend a few years hoping their guy would get back to speed, and he didn't.

Injury, off the field incidents, whatever, they're there. If I had told people in 2015 that by 2020 most of the board would be clamoring for Steve Keim's head after almost all of his draft picks burned out, he got a DUI, and then hired a losing, fired, college head coach, you'd all have laughed at me.

Baker's issue is he sometimes thinks he's more athletic or his arm strength is greater than what it is.

However, Freddie Kitchens can't be overlooked.

Some coordinators don't translate into HC's. Promote the OC and suddenly you're worse at HC and OC. Balancing play calling and running a team is a huge task. Why so few do it. I sure hope Kliff can handle those duties cause its taxing.

Then bringing in Ryan Lindley to be his QB coach over Ken Zampese was bizarre as well.

Baker may never get over himself to be great. However, poor hires can absolutely derail a young QB.

 

[BritCard]

Baker's issue is he sometimes thinks he's more athletic or his arm strength is greater than what it is.

However, Freddie Kitchens can't be overlooked.

Some coordinators don't translate into HC's. Promote the OC and suddenly you're worse at HC and OC. Balancing play calling and running a team is a huge task. Why so few do it. I sure hope Kliff can handle those duties cause its taxing.

Then bringing in Ryan Lindley to be his QB coach over Ken Zampese was bizarre as well.

Baker may never get over himself to be great. However, poor hires can absolutely derail a young QB.

Another huge factor was his O line. He had a top 5 O line during his spell in 2018.

He had a bottom 10 O line this year.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Because as i said, the one year in college argument doesn’t work anymore if he’s going to pan out. So why would ROY be used in the same context?

If/when he does pan out, then those concerns will be moot. One year of decent rookie success is not "panned out".

 

[Jetstream Green]

This thread is like the Cardinals winning a championship, by no means even light years close to the importance level of that feat but by the finality of the award and yet though people are Cardinal fans, and Murray is a Cardinal, there are still people (Cardinal fans) seemingly wanting to limit the credit of what is for one of the few moments which reflects well on a Cardinal fan... crazy

 

[BritCard]

This thread is like the Cardinals winning a championship, by no means even light years close to the importance level of that feat but by the finality of the award and yet though people are Cardinal fans, and Murray is a Cardinal, there are still people (Cardinal fans) seemingly wanting to limit the credit of what is for one of the few moments which reflects well on a Cardinal fan... crazy

Everyone is too stunned about Keim actually drafting someone good in round 1.

Lots of internal conflict going on.

 

[Stout]

That's your opinion, and many would agree with you. My point wasn't to start an argument over who is better between Mahomes & Murray. Mahomes has already established himself as great, but was also blessed being drafted by a much more offensively talented team & being able to sit & learn his rookie season. Murray was drafted by arguably the worst Cardinal team in their history. Much different set of circumstances. Mahomes is already a given & we'll know more about Murray very soon. Let me leave you with this question. KK coached Mahomes his entire career at TT. KK has already said that KM is the best HS QB he had ever seen. Starting his coaching career at TT, if given the choice between Mahomes & Murray, who would have been his first choice? I say Murray.

No, I get you. That's why I had a smilie in there--I didn't want to start an argument either.

Not buying into your question, though. TT is irrelevant at this point. Given where both are in their careers, which QB would you want? Now, if the thought is KM is on a rookie deal and you think he'll be a great QB, whereas KC has to pay Mahomes a bunch...that I can buy into much easier.

 

[Vacard]

If/when he does pan out, then those concerns will be moot. One year of decent rookie success is not "panned out".

He didn’t disappoint AT ALL.

 

[Phrazbit]

If/when he does pan out, then those concerns will be moot. One year of decent rookie success is not "panned out".

Come on man, I remember you and I waging some wars over my distaste of Kevin Kolb. People were pimping him because he had a couple good GAMES in Philly.

Winning OROY isn't "decent", it is a legit achievement, especially with our O-line and the offensive "talent" around him.

Murray has earned a level of recognition that, IMO, means he likely a future star... he might prove otherwise, but he has earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

[BritCard]

Come on man, I remember you and I waging some wars over my distaste of Kevin Kolb. People were pimping him because he had a couple good GAMES in Philly.

Winning OROY isn't "decent", it is a legit achievement, especially with our O-line and the offensive "talent" around him.

Murray has earned a level of recognition that, IMO, means he likely a future star... he might prove otherwise, but he has earned the benefit of the doubt.

I think some Card's fans have a natural degree of caution built in to protect themselves from further disappointment.

I myself am listening to all the stories going around about the leap Kyler is going to make in year 2 and taking it with a pinch of salt. I think we have all been let down too many times to get over hyped about anything anymore.

But pleased for Kyler. I hope he does take that leap. My heart says he will, my head says "Whoa there cowboy".

 

[slanidrac16]

I think some Card's fans have a natural degree of caution built in to protect themselves from further disappointment.

I myself am listening to all the stories going around about the leap Kyler is going to make in year 2 and taking it with a pinch of salt. I think we have all been let down too many times to get over hyped about anything anymore.

But pleased for Kyler. I hope he does take that leap. My heart says he will, my head says "Whoa there cowboy".

See, this is a reasonable outlook. I think the Kyler fans get irritated when posters claim he hasn’t proved anything.

 

[football karma]

I myself am listening to all the stories going around about the leap Kyler is going to make in year 2 and taking it with a pinch of salt.

yes

i think he will take a sizeable step forward, but i think year 3 for him is the year to look forward to. K1 just didnt play that much college football compared to other NFL QBs. I think those game reps matter.

that being said, i think K1s floor is that of a QB who can competently execute an offense, and give you a boost with the mobility. There are worse places to be.

 

[BritCard]

See, this is a reasonable outlook. I think the Kyler fans get irritated when posters claim he hasn’t proved anything.

I think it's silly to say he hasn't achieved anything. Any QB that has 3800 passing yards and 550 rushing yards in any year has had a good year. To do it as a rookie is fantastic.

And that's in a scheme that really took it easy on him. Lots of one read plays, lots of short passing, a lot of pre determined play calls etc. And with a rookie HC.

I think Kyler definitely has the ability to make huge strides in year two but it really depends on two things. Can he handle the shackles coming off? What I mean by that is can he handle a more typical NFL QB role having to go through 2nd or 3rd reads while managing the pocket (stepping up rather than running about) and can we put a line together than can protect him so he can do that.

I don't really want to go down this rabbit hole again but this isn't a good O line. We worked around it so, so much with a quick passing game 75% of the time. It feels better in comparison to what it has been and because we all had super low expectations with Murray at RT, AQ coming back from an ACL, Hump and Pugh's injury history, Sweezy's average career etc. It was adequate when you consider all those things, but still not close to good.

That's going to be the biggest deciding factor. Look at Goff in 2018 with a top 10 O line. He gets a fat check and goes to the SB. Last year he had the 31st ranked O line and looked like crap. Same with Mayfield. If you want your QB to earn their money you got to protect them.

 

[slanidrac16]

I think it's silly to say he hasn't achieved anything. Any QB that has 3800 passing yards and 550 rushing yards in any year has had a good year. To do it as a rookie is fantastic.

And that's in a scheme that really took it easy on him. Lots of one read plays, lots of short passing, a lot of pre determined play calls etc. And with a rookie HC.

I think Kyler definitely has the ability to make huge strides in year two but it really depends on two things. Can he handle the shackles coming off? What I mean by that is can he handle a more typical NFL QB role having to go through 2nd or 3rd reads while managing the pocket (stepping up rather than running about) and can we put a line together than can protect him so he can do that.

I don't really want to go down this rabbit hole again but this isn't a good O line. We worked around it so, so much with a quick passing game 75% of the time. It feels better in comparison to what it has been and because we all had super low expectations with Murray at RT, AQ coming back from an ACL, Hump and Pugh's injury history, Sweezy's average career etc. It was adequate when you consider all those things, but still not close to good.

That's going to be the biggest deciding factor. Look at Goff in 2018 with a top 10 O line. He gets a fat check and goes to the SB. Last year he had the 31st ranked O line and looked like crap. Same with Mayfield. If you want your QB to earn their money you got to protect them.

Rams were a victim of there own success. They lost a couple of linemen in F/A and then got hit by injuries. I’m hoping we can improve our o-line but I think continuity along with adjustments made over the off season adds up to some improvement.

We get a little sideways because 2018 was so pathetic we rejoice in the strides we made in 2019. Every year any team has success you can probably find they started the same 5 guys for 14 or 15 games.

I don’t have the greatest faith in Keim but I’m hoping they listen to Kuglers imput. If he’s happy then draft with 2021 in mind. If he thinks we need a major piece then I hope we get one. I know we bicker about Humphries. But there are options other than Humphries. He won’t be able to hold us hostage.

Kyler, as with any Qb success, will depend on his surrounding cast. I’m not to worried about the shackles coming off. It will result in a few more int’s but I think we will also see an uptick on yd’s and big plays.

 

[BritCard]

Rams were a victim of there own success. They lost a couple of linemen and then got hit by injuries. I’m hoping we can improve our o-line but I think continuity along with adjustments made over the off season adds up to some improvement.

We get a little sideways because 2018 was so pathetic we rejoice in the strides we made in 2019. Every year any team has success you can probably find they started the same 5 guys for 14 or 15 games.

I don’t have the greatest faith in Keim but I’m hoping the listen to Kuglers imput. If he’s happy then draft with 2021 in mind. If he thinks we need a major piece then I hope we get one. I know we bicker about Humphries. But there are options other than Humphries. He won’t be able to hold us hostage.

This year and next year are great for tackles in the draft. I'm hoping we take one in the top 2 rounds both years.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Well deserved award for Murray. Exciting time to be a Cardinals fan.

 

[Chopper0080]

Here is what I know...year 3 generally is the best indicator of what a QB is going to be at the NFL level.

When it comes to Kyler, I think most on this board feel like he met or exceeded their own personal expectations for him.

Does that guarantee his success in year 2? No. Does that guarantee his success longer term? No. Is it a very good start and should lead to a more optimistic outlook? For me it has. Ultimately his success or failure will fall on him. He for sure has been set up for success better than Jones, Haskins, Mayfield, Rosen (which is not a comment on his performance in AZ), and Darnold.

 

[SoonerLou]

Still has the elite acceleration from college. Not quite the same top end speed.

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I'm just hoping he develops that subtleness that Wilson and Mahomes have. Mahomes is a 4.8 guy but so elusive and crafty in the pocket (when throwing or running)

 

[blindseyed]

Woohoo another thread that's veered completely away from it's original post

 

[MrYeahBut]

@Solar7 Sorry mang, couldn't resist...Happy Valentines

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[BigRedRage]

@Solar7 Sorry mang, couldn't resist...Happy Valentines

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bahahahaha