Kyler's inability to throw on the run is a real issue

[SoonerLou]

PFF grade was hurt by outside the pocket stuff. Still grade was high.

Actually thought he passed well outside the pocket this game. However, it was clear Tua was superior in terms of throwing outside the pocket.

IF KYLER MURRAY CAN LIMIT MISTAKES OUTSIDE THE POCKET, ARIZONA'S OFFENSE COULD BE EVEN MORE LETHAL
The Arizona Cardinals may have lost to the Miami Dolphins by a mere field goal in Week 9, but their offense continued to roll as it has in the past few weeks. Since Week 5, the Cardinals have the league’s most efficient offense in terms of expected points added per play generated, just edging out Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs. They generated positive expected points added on 62% of their pass plays against Miami, tying for the highest rate of Week 9.

When filtering to just plays in which quarterback Kyler Murray passes from inside the pocket, Arizona had the clear-cut most efficient passing offense of the week — and it’s not particularly close. Murray earned a 90.3 passing grade inside the pocket, the second-best of Week 9. On such throws, he completed 17 of his 19 attempts for 243 yards with two big-time throws and no turnover-worthy plays.

When outside the pocket — whether it be designed or Murray creating off structure — things went south for the second-year quarterback. He was the lowest-graded signal-caller of the week on such plays, two of which were turnover-worthy. One was a strip-sack fumble that Miami returned for a touchdown, and the other was a touchdown that Darrell Daniels wrestled away from Byron Jones on an easy interceptable throw.

This has really been the story of Murray's 2020 season — he ranks sixth in passing grade from inside the pocket and second-to-last from outside the pocket. His running ability is among the best we have seen at the position and is a big reason why Arizona’s offense has been as good as it is. His passing while on the run, however, is a different story. If he can reduce the mistakes in that facet, this Arizona offense can take an even bigger step forward.

 

[TaylorSwift]

PFFs logic is this.

Everyone else: Sky is clearly blue

PFF: Statistics say that the sky is red, so the sky must be red

Everyone else: "pikachu face*

I go by what I saw on the field.

Kyler had the higher degree of difficulty compared to Tua who was playing against corners who were bagging groceries 3 weeks prior.

Dolphins will play stiffer defenses and the law of averages will play out.


Meanwhile Kyler went toe to toe with a top 5 NFL defense and the game was lost due to inept coaching.


He might not be Mahomes out of the pocket but inside the pocket he is a top 5 qb and has the ability escape any sort of pressure.

The throw on the run will come, he played baseball so its not something he cant do, I believe his pops drilled into him setting his feet as a qb, he just needs an offseason to work on that first and foremost.

Other than that he is simply unstoppable.

His vision gets better every game.

He learns quickly from his mistakes.

His accuracy is becoming deadly and he has the arm strength to make any throw.


I cant take PFF seriously when I watch what I see on the field.

 

[Dr. Jones]

To me,

This is an amazingly myopic way to find a reason to diminish what Kyler did on Sunday.

 

[SoonerLou]

To me,

This is an amazingly myopic way to find a reason to diminish what Kyler did on Sunday.

They made notes for other QBs on Sunday. Just posted what they had to say about Kyler.

PFFs logic is this.

Everyone else: Sky is clearly blue

PFF: Statistics say that the sky is red, so the sky must be red

Everyone else: "pikachu face*

I go by what I saw on the field.

Kyler had the higher degree of difficulty compared to Tua who was playing against corners who were bagging groceries 3 weeks prior.

Dolphins will play stiffer defenses and the law of averages will play out.


Meanwhile Kyler went toe to toe with a top 5 NFL defense and the game was lost due to inept coaching.


He might not be Mahomes out of the pocket but inside the pocket he is a top 5 qb and has the ability escape any sort of pressure.

The throw on the run will come, he played baseball so its not something he cant do, I believe his pops drilled into him setting his feet as a qb, he just needs an offseason to work on that first and foremost.

Other than that he is simply unstoppable.

His vision gets better every game.

He learns quickly from his mistakes.

His accuracy is becoming deadly and he has the arm strength to make any throw.


I cant take PFF seriously when I watch what I see on the field.

I actually agree with your overall point about PFF and agree what he did was fantastic.

However, they have him as 6th inside the pocket and 2nd to last on the run.

To my eye...that doesnt sound so absurd. Especially since he prefers to turn the corner on the run more than he will look downfield to throw. Especially rolling left.

 

[Dr. Jones]

They made notes for other QBs on Sunday. Just posted what they had to say about Kyler.

I actually agree with your overall point about PFF and agree what he did was fantastic.

However, they have him as 6th inside the pocket and 2nd to last on the run.

To my eye...that doesnt sound so absurd. Especially since he prefers to turn the corner on the run more than he will look downfield to throw. Especially rolling left.

what makes it slightly absurd is to funnel the conversation to one piece of the overall puzzle.

I know you saved that kid from choking to death in the lunch room Johnny...... but when you did the Heimlich maneuver on him, you cracked one of his ribs. So that's what we will focus on in this expulsion hearing.

Makes no sense to me.

If he has serious trouble passing the ball like Lamar...... then I'll start talking about how teams can scheme against his skills. But when he's over 10 air yards, a 150 qb rating, and only 4 of 21 completions failed to get a 1st down (one was on Andy also) it seems like someone is grasping at any straw they can find. I'm surprised they didn't say...... At his smurf-level size, I'm surprised his balls weren't batted down more.

 

[forever red]

If you were running as fast as he does you wouldn't be able to throw either. I am confident that he can throw on the run just not when he is running at full speed which is most of the time and results in explosive plays. As he matures I think he will learn to control his speed better which will improve his "on the run" stats

 

[Card'em]

I was actually encouraged by Kyler's play outside of the pocket on Sunday. Finding receivers downfield when he's outside of the pocket is clearly not one of his strengths, but I believe that he is improving at it. He's starting to look downfield more when outside of the pocket and had a nice pass to Fitzgerald on Sunday after escaping the pocket to his right. Hopefully, he'll continue to see the field better from outside the pocket as he gets more experience.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

It will change over time. Right now what he is doing as a runner makes it more efficient for him to take off for 8 yards.

If defenses start committing to stop that, then his throwing on the run will improve

 

[Stout]

IMO he's improved leaps and bounds since the beginning of the season throwing outside the pocket.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I was actually encouraged by Kyler's play outside of the pocket on Sunday. Finding receivers downfield when he's outside of the pocket is clearly not one of his strengths, but I believe that he is improving at it. He's starting to look downfield more when outside of the pocket and had a nice pass to Fitzgerald on Sunday after escaping the pocket to his right. Hopefully, he'll continue to see the field better from outside the pocket as he gets more experience.

Yeah and even though he slightly under threw Daniels I like that he made the throw. He also at least threw it well enough to give Daniels a chance on it and Daniels took advantage.

 

[Harry]

I thought he showed great improvement against Seattle. Not so much in the Fins game. The Cards need to call designed pull up & throw plays. He needs those to work on the rhythm. He also needs to learn to protect the ball better when running. The fumble wasn’t the only time he failed to do this. He’s also got to know when a rusher has the angle and then dump the ball. The NFL guys are much faster than those he faced early in his career. He’s improving but these elementary failures concern me. I’d like to see him growing faster.

There is no denying his talent. He is the best QB runner I’ve ever seen. He has an above average arm and good touch. I have no idea how high his ceiling could be. He has HOF potential, but discipline, education and the focused desire to excel are needed to get there. He’ll be the starter here for years to come. Where he will grow to is less certain. Somehow the great QBs find a way to win. Better coaching would help. He’s fun to watch. Winning consistently is even more fun.

 

[SoonerLou]

I thought he showed great improvement against Seattle. Not so much in the Fins game. The Cards need to call designed pull up & throw plays. He needs those to work on the rhythm. He also needs to learn to protect the ball better when running. The fumble wasn’t the only time he failed to do this. He’s also got to know when a rusher has the angle and then dump the ball. The NFL guys are much faster than those he faced early in his career. He’s improving but these elementary failures concern me. I’d like to see him growing faster.

There is no denying his talent. He is the best QB runner I’ve ever seen. He has an above average arm and good touch. I have no idea how high his ceiling could be. He has HOF potential, but discipline, education and the focused desire to excel are needed to get there. He’ll be the starter here for years to come. Where he will grow to is less certain. Somehow the great QBs find a way to win. Better coaching would help. He’s fun to watch. Winning consistently is even more fun.

I think its better than that. The contrast between his arm strength in a clean pocket/set vs. in conflict/on the run is noticeable though.

For example, I think Kyler's arm is stronger than Russell Wilson's, but Wilson has better arm talent at the moment.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

PFFs logic is this.

Everyone else: Sky is clearly blue

PFF: Statistics say that the sky is red, so the sky must be red

Everyone else: "pikachu face*

I go by what I saw on the field.

Kyler had the higher degree of difficulty compared to Tua who was playing against corners who were bagging groceries 3 weeks prior.

Dolphins will play stiffer defenses and the law of averages will play out.


Meanwhile Kyler went toe to toe with a top 5 NFL defense and the game was lost due to inept coaching.


He might not be Mahomes out of the pocket but inside the pocket he is a top 5 qb and has the ability escape any sort of pressure.

The throw on the run will come, he played baseball so its not something he cant do, I believe his pops drilled into him setting his feet as a qb, he just needs an offseason to work on that first and foremost.

Other than that he is simply unstoppable.

His vision gets better every game.

He learns quickly from his mistakes.

His accuracy is becoming deadly and he has the arm strength to make any throw.


I cant take PFF seriously when I watch what I see on the field.

Anyone with a functioning eyeball can see Murray is atrocious on roll outs.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I think its better than that. The contrast between his arm strength in a clean pocket/set vs. in conflict/on the run is noticeable though.

For example, I think Kyler's arm is stronger than Russell Wilson's, but Wilson has better arm talent at the moment.

Kyler also has a much wider throwing motion.

 

[SoonerLou]

Actually disagree with the analysis, but I also think this is where we get spoiled by Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson and Russell Wilson.

On the run they probably loft this to Hopkins over the middle.

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Can also see Andy deep coming back from his post.

I just think he trusts his feet more than his arm on the move.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Posts like these make no damn sense when one considers how well he's playing, and the most important has nothing to do with concerns about him throwing on the run. Kyler did something in the last game which he had not really done consistently and that's he showed he can take advantage of the middle of field throwing... that is what counts, that shows if he can be a franchise QB

 

[SoonerLou]

Posts like these make no damn sense when one considers how well he's playing, and the most important has nothing to do with concerns about him throwing on the run. Kyler did something in the last game which he had not really done consistently and that's he showed he can take advantage of the middle of field throwing... that is what counts, that shows if he can be a franchise QB

True. This is just critiquing what he needs to do to be more complete.

And as great as Kyler was...it was a throw on the run that could have helped continue a drive to win the game.

 

[Jetstream Green]

True. This is just critiquing what he needs to do to be more complete.

And as great as Kyler was...it was a throw on the run that could have helped continue a drive to win the game.

Hey, I lay more claim to Kyler than you Lou, since Oklahoma has a habit of borrowing their athletes from Texas lol

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think its better than that. The contrast between his arm strength in a clean pocket/set vs. in conflict/on the run is noticeable though.

For example, I think Kyler's arm is stronger than Russell Wilson's, but Wilson has better arm talent at the moment.

I'm not sure he necessarily lacks arm strength on the run, but is just not as confident letting it loose on the move. Kind of telegraphs it a bit to be more accurate. That Daniels TD for instance is probably a clean TD pass if he puts a little more zip on the ball. Granted he was also only like a foot short of a perfect throw there as well.

 

[SoonerLou]

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[DVontel]

Actually disagree with the analysis, but I also think this is where we get spoiled by Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson and Russell Wilson.

On the run they probably loft this to Hopkins over the middle.

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Can also see Andy deep coming back from his post.

I just think he trusts his feet more than his arm on the move.

I don’t think any QB makes that throw without it getting picked off unless Nuk was Megatron.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I thought he showed great improvement against Seattle. Not so much in the Fins game. The Cards need to call designed pull up & throw plays. He needs those to work on the rhythm. He also needs to learn to protect the ball better when running. The fumble wasn’t the only time he failed to do this. He’s also got to know when a rusher has the angle and then dump the ball. The NFL guys are much faster than those he faced early in his career. He’s improving but these elementary failures concern me. I’d like to see him growing faster.

There is no denying his talent. He is the best QB runner I’ve ever seen. He has an above average arm and good touch. I have no idea how high his ceiling could be. He has HOF potential, but discipline, education and the focused desire to excel are needed to get there. He’ll be the starter here for years to come. Where he will grow to is less certain. Somehow the great QBs find a way to win. Better coaching would help. He’s fun to watch. Winning consistently is even more fun.

it is CRAZY to watch the difference running this year versus last year. If he can do that for passing next year, he might not just be a superstar, he might end up being... I can't believe I'm saying this... the best player in the game.

man I happy Keim did what so many people in this world couldn't... admit their mistake and correct it immediately. As fun as the whole Jewper Bowl thing, it wasn't looking like Rosen was taking this team to the Promised Land any time soon... or ever.

 

[CFLredzoned]

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2nd best passing grade in the pocket? That could be the best news I've heard in awhile.

Wasn't it week 3 that the Lions gave the league the blueprint on how to beat Murray? Make him beat you from the pocket. So for the next 2 weeks, the question became can Kyler take the next step to overcome that?

Remember that?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

2nd best passing grade in the pocket? That could be the best news I've heard in awhile.

Wasn't it week 3 that the Lions gave the league the blueprint on how to beat Murray? Make him beat you from the pocket. So for the next 2 weeks, the question became can Kyler take the next step to overcome that?

Remember that?

Ow it’s moved to questioning his ability to throw out of the pocket and he starting to show he can do that as well.

 

[SoonerLou]

Kyler is now up to 6th in the pocket on the season according to PFF.

Overall passing grade is 16th because his outside the pocket #s are 2nd to last.