Lakers/Pistons game 4

[LakeShowMan]

I just hope that Laker fans will remember this the next time they're getting the benefit of the calls. Officials do have a big part in determining who wins. The winner will never admit this, and the loser is afraid to bring it up because of being labeled a whiner. But it's true anyway. Some Laker fans (probably not LSM) have let themselves believe all along that officiating doesn't make a difference. Now, at last, they're being forced to see that it does.

But ... it's not the only difference. Just as the Lakers probably would have won in other years without the officials' help -- well, except in 2000, but never mind that -- they'd be in trouble so far in this series no matter how the games were being called. That said, I think they do have a good chance of coming back. If the officials start calling just a few more interior fouls against the Pistons, it completely changes the outlook of the game.

If I were Phil Jackson, I don't know what I'd do, because what the Lakers need now is actual coaching, rather than just the avuncular presence of a self-satisfied seer. But if I were another coach in charge of the Lakers, I'd suggest this:

1. Get in Hamilton's way more when he comes off of screens. Bump his hip, get an elbow into his ribs, whatever. If the officials start calling fouls, complain and demand equal calls on the other end for Bryant.

2. Tell O'Neal to be patient when he gets the ball. It still looks to me like he's hurrying because he's afraid of going to the line. Even his rushed shots went in last night, but the Lakers need to get the officials into the habit of calling fouls on the Pistons. O'Neal should give a pump fake or two and draw solid contact, and if he misses his free throws, that's okay.

3. Get people moving without the ball. The Pistons' defense is too good for one-on-one play, and the main reason O'Neal didn't get the ball more reliably is because there weren't any passing lanes. Even if O'Neal scores 50 points, other Lakers need to score 40. How are they going to do that?

4. Tell the role players to stop being so scared and just shoot the damn ball. Defense is easy when the offense is playing two-on-five. Every time someone other than O'Neal misses a shot, the whole team looks angry and guilty. That has to stop. Everyone needs to be a threat to score, and everyone has to be ready to put the ball in the basket when given the chance.

5. Let a guard get a jump start on a fast break when the Pistons put up a shot. Right now the Pistons have five players going for offensive rebounds. That strategy has to be punished. Tell the Laker bigs to block out hard and immediately look down the court once they have the ball. It might take two passes (or a dribble and a pass) to get the ball there, but make more of a commitment to running. They'll still give up second shots, but at least they'll get some compensating scores on the other end.

6. Find someone on the coaching staff that Bryant trusts and get him to explain that Bryant isn't helping himself by tanking. Even if he hates O'Neal and Jackson, his legacy as a player will be gauged by what he does in the next three games. He's too good for personal squabbles to bring him down: the great players rise above such pettiness, even when it's from the people who are supposed to support them. If he wants to leave, fine, but leave a winner -- even if that means that everyone else will get the credit.

I don't know, that's a start.

Man who said Suns fans don't know basketball. Another great post.

I think they have tried #1 a little bit, but they end up in the penalty 3 minutes into the quarter and then they satrt handing out freebies like its Haloween.

#2 has been a problem for awhile now. O'Neal insecurities about his FT shooting has effected his game whether he believes so or not.

#4 and 5 are 'must do's'. They need to find a way to get easy baskets and must try to run the floor. Even if they have to go with a lineup of Shaq, Kobe, and some younger guys that are willing to run. Also, I don't know where the Devean George that couldn't miss against the Spurs went, but his only consistency is being inconsistent. He should have ENIGMA on his back, instead of his last name. Guys need to be more aggresive (I sound like a broken record), whats the worst that could happen, we lose again?

As for #6, unfortunately i am not sure that there is anyone left in the organization that Kobe does trust, and most of that is self-inflicted. He may listen to Karl, but who knows. The only guy I know that could talk, and Kobe would give him his undivided attention, now is running the show in Memphis. The Logo, is the only one that could do the job, IMO.

I hate to use officials as a crutch, or an excuse, but they are part of the game and must be accounted for. We'll see if the Lakers have it in them to make history. Doesn't seem very likely.

 

[scotsman13]

Iv'e been thinking the same thing. The really confusing thing to me is: how in the hell did Detroit take 7 games to beat the injury riddled Nets team?

the weakness in the pistons, is the strong point of the nets. it is also the way you beat the, but the lakers dont seem willing or able to do this one thing. RUN. rebound, run the brake and pass to the open man. until the laker can do this they wont beat the pistons.

right now they are playing into the pistons hand by running a half court game.

 

[Joe Mama]

This is just a great thread. Honestly LakeShowMan, you are one class act. I do believe that if the officiating has helped anyone it's been the Pistons. As has been discussed already there is such a big disparity in free-throw shooting because of the way each team is playing... not the officiating however.

I absolutely loath Karl Malone, but there have been at least 5-10 times in this series so far where he has been just hammered going to the basket with no call. He is so pathetic right now that he ends up on the ground underneath the basket looking at the referees like a puppy who just got kicked. There was one of those incidents last night in the second half.

Even with a healthy Karl Malone I think the Pistons would be in control of this series. At least I would like to think that is the case. Actually underlying I sure. Even without him that has been a competitive series with the exception of Game 3.

Joe Mama

 

[cly2tw]

Iv'e been thinking the same thing. The really confusing thing to me is: how in the hell did Detroit take 7 games to beat the injury riddled Nets team?

The Nets are young and have a good defensive matchup for the Pistons: Kidd-Billups, Kittle/Harris-Hamilton, Prince-Jefferson, Martin-Rasheed. In contrast, the Lakers have defensive mismatch at three positions: Payton-Billups, Prince-George (offensive rebounds!), Rasheed-whoever. Since Prince neutralized Kobe without picks and screens set to get Kobe more space, Shaq's advantage over BenWallace and co. simply can't compensate for the mismatch advantages the Pistons enjoy. The Lakers are simply too old for these Pistons!

 

[cly2tw]

I absolutely loath Karl Malone, but there have been at least 5-10 times in this series so far where he has been just hammered going to the basket with no call. He is so pathetic right now that he ends up on the ground underneath the basket looking at the referees like a puppy who just got kicked. There was one of those incidents last night in the second half.

Even with a healthy Karl Malone I think the Pistons would be in control of this series. At least I would like to think that is the case. Actually underlying I sure. Even without him that has been a competitive series with the exception of Game 3.

Joe Mama

A healthy Malone would've slowed down Rasheed and set picks for Kobe to create more space in the offense. That'd be huge if Kobe just got ever so slightly more breath from Prince's smothering defense. In Game 4, Billups' timely 3's with a little space really frustrated the Lakers too. But, hey, I love it this way!

 

[Errntknght]

Some great posts in this thread.

1. Zone D. (IMO, 2-1-2 with Kobe in the middle) Kobe has to quit wearing himself out chasing Rip. This should make it easier to play the younger guys (Rush, Walton, Medvedenko) who are getting burned in man to man. Malone could be helped by it some as well. Force Detroit to shoot jump shots all night long - if they hit them that's the breaks. (The way things are going if Detroit hits their jump shots they are going to win anyway so try to take away their easier shots and their trips to the foul line.)

2. Sit Payton most of the game - when he's on the floor he has to push it up hard every time.

3. Go to Shaq often, of course.

4. Eric was right, the rest of the team is shooting scared... tell them they are required to take all open shots within their normal range. No hesitation allowed. Pass up an open shot and they sit.

5. Keep fresh troops on the floor.

 

[LakeShowMan]

This has turned into a pretty great thread. Its always fun to get into a strategic discussion in the context of a series like this.

Joe,
I think Malone's injury is huge. They are just not as good a team when he is not 100% (that has been evident all season). If he had the ability to play the pick & roll with Kobe, the way he usually can, we would not be having such a hard time scoring points. Just go look at some of those Spurs games, Kobe and Karl got consistent good shots, and not having that in the arsenal is killing them.

BTW, thanks for the compliment, it is greatly appreciated.

Errntknght,
I completely agree on the zone. They need to try something else. Not only does it force them to take more jumpshots it also reduces the effectiveness of the high pick & roll (basically the reason Chauncey is the MVP of the series right now). The only thing that scares me about the zone is Rip will find open shots, but it is better than keeping the status quo. I just wonder if Phil is willing to relent and let the team play it.


If I was Phil, this is what I think I would do. I would run some pick & rolls early. If Karl can't do it, I would do it with Shaq and Kobe/Gary (we have to find a way to get him involved) and maybe even use Devean as the screener and see if we can at least force Rip to switch to Kobe (HUGE mismatch). Also, and this goes with out saying, any time we are not running sets, I would make sure Shaq touches the ball. Usually any long drought that we go through is when Shaq goes long stretches with out touching the ball. Also, I would tell Kobe he must be aggresive with the dribble drive. Even if he has to force the issue early. All of this is design to get more things going towards the hoop. We have to break up the monotony of contested jump shots. Put the focus on the refs to blow the whistle.

On defense, I would start in a zone and see how they react. Probably an extended 2-1-2 where we pick up high. Force guys to the side and trap. We have to get the ball out of Chauncey's hands and force other guys to handle the ball with pressure. I don't really think any of the other guys (maybe Rasheed for his size) handles the ball all that well. Also, when we do go man (I think we should give them a lot of different looks), do not go under the screen against Chauncey. I know he can drive if we go over, but he has hit way to many shots when we cheat under. I would also not hesitate to play some of the younger guys (Rush, Walton) or our better defenders (Russell) and see if we can press a bit. I think the biggest thing is to try and get the ball out of Chauncey's hands, and to try and limit our fouls in the half court.

Lastly, we need to run whenever possible. I really like the idea of releasing our guards and punishing them for crashing the boards. We need to get as many easy baskets as possible, and try not to settles for jumpshots, even if we have to force the action a little bit.

 

[Chaplin]

I still believe that the Lakers problems begin and end with Shaq. In the half-court, he's still one of the most dominating players in history. But there are 2 major problems:

1) On defense, he can't move very fast, so he basically plays absolutely no transition defense. Detroit has brilliantly taken advantage of this by running at every opportunity. And it's paying off.

2) On the other side of the ball, it's difficult for the Lakers to run, because 3 of the 4 "superstars" CAN'T run all that well to begin with. Kobe Bryant is the only one, with maybe Devean George and Derek Fisher being the only two guys to run. George can't finish, which makes that a problem. So effectively, in order to run, the Lakers always have to use Kobe and Fisher, every single time. And that's ineffective simply because Fisher is either not in the game enough, or defers to Shaq all the time. So the game turns into a half-court game, which Shaq SHOULD dominate, but a lot of times, they don't even get the ball to him. Sometimes that's Kobe's fault, sometimes it's not.

 

[LakeShowMan]

I still believe that the Lakers problems begin and end with Shaq. In the half-court, he's still one of the most dominating players in history. But there are 2 major problems:

1) On defense, he can't move very fast, so he basically plays absolutely no transition defense. Detroit has brilliantly taken advantage of this by running at every opportunity. And it's paying off.

2) On the other side of the ball, it's difficult for the Lakers to run, because 3 of the 4 "superstars" CAN'T run all that well to begin with. Kobe Bryant is the only one, with maybe Devean George and Derek Fisher being the only two guys to run. George can't finish, which makes that a problem. So effectively, in order to run, the Lakers always have to use Kobe and Fisher, every single time. And that's ineffective simply because Fisher is either not in the game enough, or defers to Shaq all the time. So the game turns into a half-court game, which Shaq SHOULD dominate, but a lot of times, they don't even get the ball to him. Sometimes that's Kobe's fault, sometimes it's not.

I think those are more reason to get Walton and Rush more time. Walton can run the floor, and he also does a great job of finding Shaq in the half court. Rush would help with another spot up shooter, but he also has the athleticism to run with Kobe. Go small with a high energy group of Fisher/Rush/Kobe/Walton/Shaq, every once in a while to speed up the game. Press a little bit and force the tempo. We can only use this for short stretches because we will have some mismatches on defense.

 

[Chaplin]

I think those are more reason to get Walton and Rush more time. Walton can run the floor, and he also does a great job of finding Shaq in the half court. Rush would help with another spot up shooter, but he also has the athleticism to run with Kobe. Go small with a high energy group of Fisher/Rush/Kobe/Walton/Shaq, every once in a while to speed up the game. Press a little bit and force the tempo. We can only use this for short stretches because we will have some mismatches on defense.

Oh yeah, and one of the most important things the Lakers are not doing--MOVING WITHOUT THE BALL!!

 

[cardsunsfan]

I think I fault Phil Jackson the most for the Lakers decline. I don't know what's happened to him but I think another coach would have done a better job than him this year.... maybe Sloan, Brown, Carlisle...etc....etc...

 

[scotsman13]

i think that there is problems with the match up and also the chemerstry of the lakers. lets face it there is an unspoken war between kobe and shaq.

 

[George O'Brien]

In the world of mixed metaphors, those who jumped on the Lakers bandwaggon are not leaving a sinking ship.

After the fact it seems obvious why the Lakers folded, but prior to it most picked him. Part of the reason was that most of us underestimated how bad Malone's knee really was.

A second reason was that it had looked like Payton had turned things around against the Spurs, but he is absolutely hopeless in the busted triangle. He is not a catch and shoot offensive player and he is no longer a good defender. Fisher is medicore player who is having a bad year, yet he is more effective than Payton.

The rest of the cast seems totally lost and Jackson has done nothing to correct their problems. Perhaps there are no solutions, but I'd rather blame Jackson after listening to all his genius zen crap for so many years.

 

[Errntknght]

LakeShow >>If I was Phil, this is what I think I would do. I would run some pick & rolls early. If Karl can't do it, I would do it with Shaq and Kobe/Gary (we have to find a way to get him involved) and maybe even use Devean as the screener and see if we can at least force Rip to switch to Kobe (HUGE mismatch<<

Eeek, not Shaq... Devean fine. Medvedenko or even Walton but not Shaq.

>>On defense, I would start in a zone and see how they react. Probably an extended 2-1-2 where we pick up high. Force guys to the side and trap. We have to get the ball out of Chauncey's hands and force other guys to handle the ball with pressure. I don't really think any of the other guys (maybe Rasheed for his size) handles the ball all that well. Also, when we do go man (I think we should give them a lot of different looks), do not go under the screen against Chauncey. I know he can drive if we go over, but he has hit way to many shots when we cheat under. I would also not hesitate to play some of the younger guys (Rush, Walton) or our better defenders (Russell) and see if we can press a bit. I think the biggest thing is to try and get the ball out of Chauncey's hands, and to try and limit our fouls in the half court.<<

Just what I wouldn't do with a zone. Traps can be disruptive but they take lots of practice to be effective besides Chauncey isn't killing the Lakers with his playmaking. Pack the zone tight and let him and the others bomb away from long range all night long - I wouldn't leave the zone unless Detroit started getting inside it. I suggested putting Kobe in the middle to try to prevent just that from happening.