LB and TPE for Turk and Childress

[slinslin]

We're gonna need to Slin, if this roster is going to purr offensively like it did last season. You should know that without Amare's post presence last season we don't even sniff the WCF....probably not even the playoffs.

Al Jefferson should be the SUNS target at this point in time. We can get by at SG with Hill,Childress for one season in the event that JRich gets moved.

Amare's post presence? I can count on one hand how many times the Suns worked the post in games last season.

Jason Richardson got more plays in the post than Amare.

 

[dodie53]

so,
the raps have diaw and LB?
will they sign tim thomas and/or bell?
could they trade for kurt, marion and nash?

 

[elindholm]

Amare's post presence? I can count on one hand how many times the Suns worked the post in games last season.

Jason Richardson got more plays in the post than Amare.

The Suns used O'Neal in the post when he was in Phoenix. There's no disadvantage to having players who give you more offensive options. Sheesh.

 

[mojorizen7]

Amare's post presence? I can count on one hand how many times the Suns worked the post in games last season.

Jason Richardson got more plays in the post than Amare.

No. If we weren't running in transition i recall the basketball going to Amare most of the time...where he'd either drive to his right, face up and shoot, or get the ball out to a shooter.
Neither Lopez,Hedo,Warrick or Frye are going to be able to do this nearly as effectively as Stoudemire did.

We're gonna need a PF who can draw alot of attention inside.
I cant believe i'm arguing this point with you.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Considering the other moves that have happened with trades, I believe we are safe to assume that the Suns rate Turkoglu higher than either Beasley or Diaw. We assumed when Beasley was given away, we just weren't spending any money. That is clearly not the case.

 

[Griffin]

Actually you're right. As long as the CBA doesn't change too much they'll still have max money next year.

If we are at around $63M this season, we'll be at around $45M after J-Rich and Hill come off the books, which puts us at around $13M free space assuming $58M cap. But the Suns by then will likely have extended Dudley, so that leaves less room depending on how much he'll get. The Suns can free up another $2M by letting Clark go, but unless there are other trades we probably won't have enough for a max next summer.

 

[Folster]

No. If we weren't running in transition i recall the basketball going to Amare most of the time...where he'd either drive to his right, face up and shoot, or get the ball out to a shooter.
Neither Lopez,Hedo,Warrick or Frye are going to be able to do this nearly as effectively as Stoudemire did.

We're gonna need a PF who can draw alot of attention inside.
I cant believe i'm arguing this point with you.

You forgot his bread and butter moves of forcing up a brick and yelling "and one", facing up his man and getting stripped, and driving to the hoop and charging into the rotating defender.

 

[SunsTzu]

But the Suns by then will likely have extended Dudley, so that leaves less room depending on how much he'll get.

Dudley's cap hold is only his qualifying offer of about 3mil. They can use all their cap space then negotiate with him with his Bird rights.

 

[Griffin]

Dudley's cap hold is only his qualifying offer of about 3mil. They can use all their cap space then negotiate with him with his Bird rights.

I was thinking we might extend him before the summer, but even with only counting $3M against the cap that still doesn't leave enough for a max.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

color me perplexed.

like childress.

not a fan of turkoglu with this squad. if we were adding him to an amare team i'd be a fan. just seems we're now on the hook for his two stellar year's production in orlando when his latest numbers are awful. and yeah, yeah, system, system, system, but who knows how he'll do here. he's older, and he'll likely be playing at higher salaries for two years post-nash.

seems like we're just loading up on a ton of SFs. regardless of size, the following players all play perimeter-based games or are light in loafers for the pf position (and none of 'em average over 6 rebs/game, right? maybe i'm wrong with hill?):

hill
dudley
frye
warrick
turkoglu
clark
childress

i know childress is touted as a sg, but his shooting percentages the last couple of years playing in an inferior league leave something to be desired.

overall assessment? i have NO idea. lots of shooters (though with some recent questionable numbers). lot's of seeming redundancy. sarver is spending, which is weird, but the spending seems without gameplan (at least to me). now have frye, warrick, turkoglu, and childress tied up (and their cap space) for 4 years each (i think we'll regret this). still have close to $6M in exception which gives us SOME flexibility, but certainly not the flexibility to trade for a stud, so i'm pessimistic that we'll use the remainder (though i was admittedly pessimistic we'd use ANY of it, so i'm happily surprised we used ANY of it).

like the concept of trading jrich for jefferson if our miracle training staff can return him to former glory. all these shooters could use a low post presence. that said, if we started a frontline of jefferson/lopez/turkoglu i think they'd have the slowest collective footspeed of any frontline in the league, which is an odd pairing for a steve nash lead team. it'd be tall though, 'specially adding childress to the starting 5 ('cuz we'd have traded richardson). wouldn't mind watching that team 'cuz though it wouldn't be all that exciting (not many impressive athletes), it would be a complete departure from most suns teams we've ever watched, and i'd be willing to see where that takes us for a change.

not mad, just curious and confused. please no one call me a whiner in this thread.

 

[Chaplin]

I was thinking we might extend him before the summer, but even with only counting $3M against the cap that still doesn't leave enough for a max.

We won't need room for a max player, because assuming Carmelo extends with Denver, there won't be any max players next summer. And that's if there's even a season anyway.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

color me perplexed.

like childress.

not a fan of turkoglu with this squad. if we were adding him to an amare team i'd be a fan. just seems we're now on the hook for his two stellar year's production in orlando when his latest numbers are awful. and yeah, yeah, system, system, system, but who knows how he'll do here. he's older, and he'll likely be playing at higher salaries for two years post-nash.

seems like we're just loading up on a ton of SFs. regardless of size, the following players all play perimeter-based games or are light in loafers for the pf position (and none of 'em average over 6 rebs/game, right? maybe i'm wrong with hill?):

hill
dudley
frye
warrick
turkoglu
clark
childress

i know childress is touted as a sg, but his shooting percentages the last couple of years playing in an inferior league leave something to be desired.

overall assessment? i have NO idea. lots of shooters (though with some recent questionable numbers). lot's of seeming redundancy. sarver is spending, which is weird, but the spending seems without gameplan (at least to me). now have frye, warrick, turkoglu, and childress tied up (and their cap space) for 4 years each (i think we'll regret this). still have close to $6M in exception which gives us SOME flexibility, but certainly not the flexibility to trade for a stud, so i'm pessimistic that we'll use the remainder (though i was admittedly pessimistic we'd use ANY of it, so i'm happily surprised we used ANY of it).

like the concept of trading jrich for jefferson if our miracle training staff can return him to former glory. all these shooters could use a low post presence. that said, if we started a frontline of jefferson/lopez/turkoglu i think they'd have the slowest collective footspeed of any frontline in the league, which is an odd pairing for a steve nash lead team. it'd be tall though, 'specially adding childress to the starting 5 ('cuz we'd have traded richardson). wouldn't mind watching that team 'cuz though it wouldn't be all that exciting (not many impressive athletes), it would be a complete departure from most suns teams we've ever watched, and i'd be willing to see where that takes us for a change.

not mad, just curious and confused. please no one call me a whiner in this thread.

I'm definitely on the Al Jefferson for J-Rich bandwagon. Assuming it happens (and it makes sense for both teams), I think we could actually be a pretty good half-court team. Turkoglu is an excellent facilitator, and we'd have a team of other good passers (Dudley, Hill, Childress, Dragic). Steve Nash could switch to a more shooting oriented role, like many on this board have wanted, with good reason.

We'd also be a very big, physical squad. Against the Lakers, we would match up really well to their big front line of Odom, Gasol, and Bynum that killed us last year. Lopez is the same size as Bynum, Jefferson makes up for his slight height disadvantage against Gasol with his superior strength, and Turkoglu can check Odom (Turkoglu's defense against SFs is decent). Then we throw in a big 2 in Childress, who is bigger than almost all other guards in the league.

 

[TBaslim]

Wow. Interesting moves. I did not expect anymore activity until later in the summer, when cheaper vets were looking for homes. Gotta say I'm impressed by Sarver, Gentry and Co here.

I'm a big Barbs fan, and was really hoping to see him bounce back with the Suns this year, but I like both moves.

I think it'll be good for Barbs to get a change of scenery (as much as he may not think so now) and more playing time. He has the skills to really light it up on a team that needs offense (which the Raptors appear to be now) and earn his current contract and raise the value on his next one. He was not going to get that in Phx with the direction the team is going.

Hedo was a total stud in Orlando. He really filled a tremendous and versatile role on that team. The question is how he rebounds after the bad year in Toronto. I think he will shoot lights-out with the Suns. Hope he is in shape - can he run enough to keep up with Nash n Co? And where is his head? Can he buy into the team-first concept and just play, without worry for shots, touches, etc?

Childress is a talent - the question is also if his head is right. I think the years in Greece were good for him, by the looks of his numbers. If he has matured as a person and a player, he could be a total steal. Efficent offense and really solid defense. He and Dragic could really shut down opposing backcourts if they gell together. As someone said, add in Dudley, and opposing teams have got to cringe.

I actually like what the team has done contract wise. More mid-level deals for versatile, talented players, rather than a few huge superstar contracts. Sure, if we could land a Lebron, etc, I'd be fine with the huge deals. But don't overpay because you cannot get a top 5 player. I thought they offered Amare a fair deal, given the injury and insurance risks. Amare also did the smart thing and took the money in NY. You just don't leave 40million on the table. Odds are high he gets another Micro during the lockout and cannot play up to the end of that contract. NY can afford that. Not sure the Suns can.

Anyway, if we can't field a Suns 05 (or Miami 10) team, with a few spectacular, top-flight starters, I really like having a deep, talented, versatile team. If they can play with the same camaraderie and team-first attitude as last year's squad? Sign me up to watch, even if they have minimal odds of winning the ring.

Even without a trade for another big, if all these guys hustle, they may be a better defensive team than last year, with not much drop off on offense.

 

[SunsTzu]

I was thinking we might extend him before the summer, but even with only counting $3M against the cap that still doesn't leave enough for a max.

Well it depends on how the contracts they gave this year are structured but a max for Horford should start at little under 13mil and they should be able to clear that pretty easy if they want max space next season.

 

[TBaslim]

So on the JRich for Al Jefferson speculation...same question as came up earlier...can Big Al run? At all?

Cause even if the Suns want to slow it down from the SSOL days, they are not going to be an east-coast halfcourt team. Jefferson always seemed like that kind of player to me.

Anyone who has watched him, when healthy, care to share what he would be like with last year's Suns style of play?

 

[mojorizen7]

color me perplexed.

like childress.

not a fan of turkoglu with this squad. if we were adding him to an amare team i'd be a fan. just seems we're now on the hook for his two stellar year's production in orlando when his latest numbers are awful. and yeah, yeah, system, system, system, but who knows how he'll do here. he's older, and he'll likely be playing at higher salaries for two years post-nash.

seems like we're just loading up on a ton of SFs. regardless of size, the following players all play perimeter-based games or are light in loafers for the pf position (and none of 'em average over 6 rebs/game, right? maybe i'm wrong with hill?):

hill
dudley
frye
warrick
turkoglu
clark
childress

i know childress is touted as a sg, but his shooting percentages the last couple of years playing in an inferior league leave something to be desired.

overall assessment? i have NO idea. lots of shooters (though with some recent questionable numbers). lot's of seeming redundancy. sarver is spending, which is weird, but the spending seems without gameplan (at least to me). now have frye, warrick, turkoglu, and childress tied up (and their cap space) for 4 years each (i think we'll regret this). still have close to $6M in exception which gives us SOME flexibility, but certainly not the flexibility to trade for a stud, so i'm pessimistic that we'll use the remainder (though i was admittedly pessimistic we'd use ANY of it, so i'm happily surprised we used ANY of it).

like the concept of trading jrich for jefferson if our miracle training staff can return him to former glory. all these shooters could use a low post presence. that said, if we started a frontline of jefferson/lopez/turkoglu i think they'd have the slowest collective footspeed of any frontline in the league, which is an odd pairing for a steve nash lead team. it'd be tall though, 'specially adding childress to the starting 5 ('cuz we'd have traded richardson). wouldn't mind watching that team 'cuz though it wouldn't be all that exciting (not many impressive athletes), it would be a complete departure from most suns teams we've ever watched, and i'd be willing to see where that takes us for a change.

not mad, just curious and confused. please no one call me a whiner in this thread.

Bitch bitch bitch..... j.k. Nothing wrong with calling how you see it.
I agree Ouchie,these moves make us better but still incomplete.

I'm definitely on the Al Jefferson for J-Rich bandwagon. Assuming it happens (and it makes sense for both teams), I think we could actually be a pretty good half-court team. Turkoglu is an excellent facilitator, and we'd have a team of other good passers (Dudley, Hill, Childress, Dragic). Steve Nash could switch to a more shooting oriented role, like many on this board have wanted, with good reason.

We'd also be a very big, physical squad. Against the Lakers, we would match up really well to their big front line of Odom, Gasol, and Bynum that killed us last year. Lopez is the same size as Bynum, Jefferson makes up for his slight height disadvantage against Gasol with his superior strength, and Turkoglu can check Odom (Turkoglu's defense against SFs is decent). Then we throw in a big 2 in Childress, who is bigger than almost all other guards in the league.

+1
I really like the fact that this roster gives us a few guys who can really disrupt opposing offenses(Hill,Duds,Childress,Dragic)with their tenacity,long arms and hustle....a nice mix of shooters w/size(Frye,the Turk)and disruptors.
Still need that inside presence obviously.
Fingers crossed that a deal can get done at some point for an A.Jefferson-type.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I think that we can put to rest any speculation that Turkoglu will just kick back and sit on his expensive contract. He waved $11 million to come here. So he isn't all about the money.

Also, in a Coro article a couple days he ago, he mentioned we're interested in Andrei Kirlenko. He's not as big as Al Jefferson, but he can play PF and still run.

 

[TBaslim]

From vague memories of them playing, and assume both are healthy, Kirlenko would fit in much better then Jefferson on this current roster.

 

[cly2tw]

You forgot his bread and butter moves of forcing up a brick and yelling "and one", facing up his man and getting stripped, and driving to the hoop and charging into the rotating defender.

Wow, with bricks like that Amare made it as one of the best 2-3 players the second half of last season. How bad has the league become!

So on the JRich for Al Jefferson speculation...same question as came up earlier...can Big Al run? At all?

Cause even if the Suns want to slow it down from the SSOL days, they are not going to be an east-coast halfcourt team. Jefferson always seemed like that kind of player to me.

Anyone who has watched him, when healthy, care to share what he would be like with last year's Suns style of play?

Why should Al be able to run? We were more than proficient at half-court last season, with Amare/JRich/Hill doing their parts. And Amare rarely ran on fastbreaks like he used to under DA. The offense was still the best in NBA with 110pts per game, despite abandoning SSOL in favor of controlled and selective runs.

 

[slinslin]

Considering the other moves that have happened with trades, I believe we are safe to assume that the Suns rate Turkoglu higher than either Beasley or Diaw. We assumed when Beasley was given away, we just weren't spending any money. That is clearly not the case.

I think I would rather have gotten Beasley on his deal than Hedo for 44M$ over 4.

We also could have kept Barbosa and we would have had a larger exception still.

Of course Barbosa would have been redundant but our roster would still be cheaper and we could have looked for another trade.

 

[slinslin]

The Suns used O'Neal in the post when he was in Phoenix. There's no disadvantage to having players who give you more offensive options. Sheesh.

Yeah and we know how that worked out. Porter got fired, Nash's numbers fell off and he was unhappy.

 

[TBaslim]

BTW - i had it wrong in my post about Childress needing to get his head right. I was thinking of Josh Smith from a few years ago. Seems Childress has always been a high-character, high bball IQ guy since being drafted. Free spirit like Robin Lopez, but not a flake or a headcase.

 

[tobiazz]

Being that Turkoglu has only had two impressive seasons in his entire career and TOR was *desperate* to get rid of him, it seems completely insane that the Suns could not garner at least a protected 1st rounder or some average prospect, or at least a 2nd rounder?!

Turk could work out well here, but if he doesn't, it may be painful. I really hope they add a rebounding C or PF. To be honest, I'm kind of digging the depth. At the very least, this season will be interesting for a few games as we see which pieces work.

I can stop laughing about TOR turning around and bringing in Diaw. If they thought they didn't like Turk . . .

 

[sunsfan88]

Turkey is only temporary at PF for 1 year, then he'll go back to SF.. We all know the Suns won't win a championship this year, but as we try to get more players and shape this team differently, we might as well stay competitive while we wait for a solid PF.

​

 

[TBaslim]

So, if this is the last big move, is the plan to run Hedo at PF like Diaw when Amare was out? Have him play the PnR with Nash, and utilize his passing skills out of the post?

Assuming Lopez fills the Kurt Thomas role on that team, and Hill/Warrick/Childress fill the Marion role, it could work.

This version is definitely deeper with guys like Dragic, Dudley and Frye.

Gentry will have lots of weapons, but his hands full getting them all playing time.

There are worse problems to have, methinks.