Leinart Contract/Negotiations Discussion

[Sandan]

First I am not slamming the Cards or slaming them for being cheap,

I know, didn't mean to imply that. The 'you' was intended to be the generic you, not you personaly.

 

[Sandan]

I pretty much agree with all you said joe

 

[RedRob]

Wow, wow, wow. Are you guys starting to agree with one another? Come on now this thread hasn't been beaten to dead enough.

 

[BACH]

sure they do - it's just that we do EVERY YEAR - PERIOD. Again - we'renow only one of THREE teams who haven't signed their first rounder - and that ain't an occassionally type thing - it's par for the course.

This comparison isn't fair. The "measuring stick" for signing the rookies is the start of training camp. We were the last team to start camp. The Eagles started their training camp 9 days earlier than the us, so you can't make that comparison.

(That doesn't mean that I don't agree with most of your point, though)

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Not Full Control. He still has his limits. Daddy still controls the money. Mike has been lobbying for more control for a while now. In fact Green, Graves, and Mike are all on the same page but cant execute their plans like they want to becuase they are limited.

After we signed our 3 UFA this past offseason Bill cut Graves, Denny, and Mike off, even though they wanted at the very least 2 more guys for depth (not starters) at the following positions, DB, LB, and OT. We even had interviews for some DB's and LB's set up but canceled them (the players didnt cancel them) after we signed Edge becuase again Bill turned off the money tree. I got this from more then just one cards insider source not just Jurecki who has been talking about it for more then a couple of weeks now.

I believe as does Jurecki and the other sources that if Mike did have full control we wouldnt be in some of these situations. He gets more and more control every year but he has yet to get control of the money.

So, who called you and told you that BB had turned off the flow of money? Isn't this just speculation on your part?

 

[Cheesebeef]

So, who called you and told you that BB had turned off the flow of money? Isn't this just speculation on your part?

considering that we still have HUGE depth issues and we haven't signed anyone since Edge, it definitely appears SOMEONE turned on the flow of money, correct?

 

[ajcardfan]

So, who called you and told you that BB had turned off the flow of money? Isn't this just speculation on your part?

No, it's not his rumor. It was reported here on the radio by Jurecki. Then, Green's comments earlier this week about how they didn't have a good second wave of free agency fed more speculation that that was true. Which also seemed to jive with the report on TV the week before that Green was dissatisfied with the front office here and might wind up in San Diego next year if Schotty gets canned.

That, Dansby, and Leinart, and Ross........it's been a bad, bad week for the Cards.

This is just too much like other offseasons for my taste. High hopes and then the wheels begin to come off. I hope this year is an exception, but all of this is just too familiar.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No, it's not his rumor. It was reported here on the radio by Jurecki. Then, Green's comments earlier this week about how they didn't have a good second wave of free agency fed more speculation that that was true. Which also seemed to jive with the report on TV the week before that Green was dissatisfied with the front office here and might wind up in San Diego next year if Schotty gets canned.

That, Dansby, and Leinart, and Ross........it's been a bad, bad week for the Cards.

This is just too much like other offseasons for my taste. High hopes and then the wheels begin to come off. I hope this year is an exception, but all of this is just too familiar.

I've already begun to start re-wiring my head - I got wayyyy too excited this off-season. We're going 5-11 until I see different because at this rate, with injuries, lack of depth, 1st round pick holdouts, we look exactly like we always do - a relative mess. It's just that we ahve new uniforms and better skill people - but I'll expect us to be a mess until I'm proven otherwise.

Like our "great" leader said: Foll me once, shame on you... fool me... (long pause)... (long pause)... you don't get fooled again!

 

[ajcardfan]

Like our "great" leader said: Foll me once, shame on you... fool me... (long pause)... (long pause)... you don't get fooled again!

On the other hand.....

We DO have 3 legitimate, superstar studs (Boldin, Fitz, James) who appear to be fierce competitors. In the past, our studs (Rice, Swann, Boston) were the biggest flakes on the team too. The thing is, a good season is going to take some luck I think. And, when have we EVER had the lucky breaks? We have to be due, right?

 

[joeshmo]

So, who called you and told you that BB had turned off the flow of money? Isn't this just speculation on your part?

Not speculation at all. This comes from 4 different sources, Jurecki who spelled it on the radio, along with face to face convos and emails with Urban and Sommers, and one other source.

That along with the comments AJ laid out in his post, what Cheese posted, the fact that we canceled interviews with 3 players I know of who already had flights and meeting times after we knew James was going to sign here, and we still have 8 Mill of cap space, all leads me to believe what my 4 sources are telling is correct.

Way to much has added up for me to not believe.

 

[Jttsaz]

It's hard not to get that "same Ole Feeling" again...old habits die hard..I do think this team will be improved but I'm not sold on the idea that the Cards truly want to win....But hey..I'm a sucker..I just want to believe so much...

 

[Crazy Canuck]

considering that we still have HUGE depth issues and we haven't signed anyone since Edge, it definitely appears SOMEONE turned on the flow of money, correct?

How about the talent available (in Green's estimation) was no better than what was on the roster or (in Green's and Graves' estimation) at a prohibitive price.

 

[BigRedArk]

It's hard not to get that "same Ole Feeling" again...old habits die hard..I do think this team will be improved but I'm not sold on the idea that the Cards truly want to win....But hey..I'm a sucker..I just want to believe so much...

What he said.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How about the talent available (in Green's estimation) was no better than what was on the roster or (in Green's and Graves' estimation) at a prohibitive price.

that's could be - but even then, it's an even BIGGER problem - your starting RT now is a UNDRAFTED... FREE AGENT... DEFENSIVE END! (not to mention we saw him last year in the same role as part of one of the worst offensive lines ever). That's pathetic, any way you slice it and to intimate that there was nothing better out there, for whatever price (considering we still have 8 mill in cap room) is homerism and nothing more.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How about the talent available (in Green's estimation) was no better than what was on the roster or (in Green's and Graves' estimation) at a prohibitive price.

this also flies in the face of what DG has said directly about failing in the 2nd wave of FA and being worried about depth at OL, LB and DB.

But yeah, it could be that a team which was pretty atrocious last year and added 3 players, one of which was an OL from a team who actually had an OL WORSE than ours, could believe that the backups fromn last year's pathetic team was better than whatever else was out there...

 

[Sandan]

considering that we still have HUGE depth issues and we haven't signed anyone since Edge, it definitely appears SOMEONE turned on the flow of money, correct?

Not at all, I don't see where there is a direct connection there at all

From what I have heard the talent available particularly at RT was just not there in FA. In fact most reports I heard suggested that OL possiblities were pretty thin and well overpriced this year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not at all, I don't see where there is a direct connection there at all

From what I have heard the talent available particularly at RT was just not there in FA. In fact most reports I heard suggested that OL possiblities were pretty thin and well overpriced this year.

jesus Nidan - what does sand taste like?

 

[Renz]

Cardinals | Leinart needs to report soon in order to play in preseason opener
Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:01:43 -0700

Darren Urban, of the East Valley Tribune, reports Arizona Cardinals QB Matt Leinart needs to report soon if he wants to participate in the preseason opener Aug. 12. Head coach Dennis Green said getting to practice by Monday, Aug. 7, would be important.

I wouldn't bet the farm on that happening.

 

[joeshmo]

Cardinals | Leinart needs to report soon in order to play in preseason opener
Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:01:43 -0700

Darren Urban, of the East Valley Tribune, reports Arizona Cardinals QB Matt Leinart needs to report soon if he wants to participate in the preseason opener Aug. 12. Head coach Dennis Green said getting to practice by Monday, Aug. 7, would be important.

I wouldn't bet the farm on that happening.

I wouldnt be to fast in saying that. These things tend to change very fast. for Example Philly and Bunkley were at each others throats in the media, the next day he was signed.

 

[Ryanwb]

I wonder if he isn't in camp by Monday if he will play at all in the first preseason game? ...if he signs at all next week

 

[Sandan]

Cheese the point is that you take every scrap of rumor and twist it to the most negative interpretation you can think of.

Heck you may be right and BB is pulling all the strings the Cardinals are still cheap and Edge is just a mirage. Maybe there were some better players out there we could have gotten for the OL in FA but most folks seemed to think the folks there had major warts.

But you may be wrong as well and most likely reality is not as black or as ugly as you think it is. it's the constant barage of the posts that either say or imply 'The Cardinals are cheap and stupid' that just get really old.

I still seem to remember signing Edge in the offseason.

 

[joeshmo]

From what I have heard the talent available particularly at RT was just not there in FA. In fact most reports I heard suggested that OL possiblities were pretty thin and well overpriced this year.

Concerning starters that is. But there were cap friendly depth players to be had. Before the edge signing we only had M. Brown called for a visit. But we did have interviews set up for 2 DB's and 1 LB (confirmed, more players may have had appointments that we never heard about esecially with how secretive the Cards are) only to be canceled. So lets take OT depth out of the equation for arguements sake.

What Cheese stated still remains for LB and DB with still 8 mill. left in the bank. So his point remains.

 

[joeshmo]

I still seem to remember signing Edge in the offseason.

As do we all. Which makes it all the more frustrating to see us take 2 steps forward (edge, re-signings, and so on) only to take 1 step back (2 straight years of week long hold outs, still have key depth issues when you still have 8 Mill in the bank when there were nice priced players to be had in both DB's and LB's).

People tend to get pissed off the most when they get a glimpse of what things could be. Kind of like winning the lottery (Edge) only to find out you owe the government (depth and one injury to the OL) more then half of it, your still way better off but your still pissed.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheese the point is that you take every scrap of rumor and twist it to the most negative interpretation you can think of.

Heck you may be right and BB is pulling all the strings the Cardinals are still cheap and Edge is just a mirage. Maybe there were some better players out there we could have gotten for the OL in FA but most folks seemed to think the folks there had major warts.

But you may be wrong as well and most likely reality is not as black or as ugly as you think it is. it's the constant barage of the posts that either say or imply 'The Cardinals are cheap and stupid' that just get really old.

I take every scrap of rumor? Give me a freaking break Nidan - I haven't even posted here for OVER A YEAR - tell me then how I've taken "every scrap of rumor" and turned it against ther team. Or why don't you tellme how wrong I was back in the day when I CORRECTLY believed we would be an abonimation and you were eating sand as usual telling me how wrong I was all the time. Good lord man.

As far as the barrrage of posts that say the Cardinals are cheap and stupid - at this point, until they prove somethign ON THE FIELD - THEY ARE CHEAP AND STUPID - POINT BLANK. We can whoop-dee-doo all we freaking want about being the King's of the Off-season, but you know what the offseason's over and now it's time for the team to put it's money where it's mouth is and so far, in the last two years, they've fallen flat on their faces - and until they do - they deserve whatever scorn is thrown down on them for not addressing their GLARING lack of depth, for NOT improving the offensive line and for not - AGAIN - FOR THE 2ND TIME IN TWO YEARS - gettting their first round pick into camp.

That is not to say AGAIN - tat we have become better in talent evaluation - that we have and I give all the props in the world to DG because of that, but as far as money is concerned, this is still a backwardass organization, which is actually starting to sicken me considering we gave them what they said always held them back - a freaking stadium. There's no reason whatsoever to have such pathetic depth issues with the amount of money we have right now - again, a CONVERTED UNDRAFTED FA DEFENSIVE LINEMEN IS OUR STARTING RIGHT TACKLE - AND HE ALREADY PROVED TO BE BAD AT IT LAST YEAR - you can't honestly tell me we couldn't have found anyone better to back up Ross' pathetic ass than the trash that we already have.

 

[Renz]

I was firmly on the side of the Cards a week ago, as far as the Leinart negotiations go, but I'm creeping farther and farther into Leinart's camp the more this thing drags on. It obviously takes two sides to negotiate, but the Cardinals have to find a way to get this thing done and move on. The Bidwills are looking at a public relations disaster if this ends up like the Wadsworth situation did.

As for the OL situation, I don't know what can be done at this point. I like that Loney isn't shuffling the line to cover injuries like last season, but we still need some more depth, obviously. If I were the Bidwills, I'd get with Loney and Green and say, "Who's out there now who you think can help us?" Then I'd go out and sign them. Unfortunately, that should have been done months ago, and it most likely won't happen now, but that's what I'd like to see happen.

Having Edge is great, and he may yet be the difference in getting our o-line to play better, but my enthusiasm is also beginning to wane a bit. Maybe we are overreacting because we've seen this happen so many times, but at this point a 6-10 season wouldn't surprise me at all.