Leinart Contract/Negotiations Discussion

[Cheesebeef]

Over the course of a six year contract an extra $3 million in guarantees to Leinart right now comes out to about 500k per season. Does anyone really think that will stop us form getting extensions done when the team goes into every season around $10 million under the cap?

besides 40year? No.

 

[kerouac9]

Leinart is no Heisman hero. He's no national champ. He's no top draft pick. He's no media darling. He's no hotshot QB.

He's just a holdout: A jerk.

Well, Mr. Daily quickie, you seem to be in the minority on that opinion. According to the poll at the bottom of your column, 31.4% of your readers disagree that he's the biggest jerk in sports, and 41.9% believe he's a contender (and I'm guessing a good number of those are just USC haters).

 

[JeffGollin]

In other words, you're saying that Graves defines "Guaranteed" as "Not Guaranteed".

Your words, not mine. I'd soften it to say that Graves (either sincerely or spinwise) defines Guaranteed so as to include weasel money such as incentives, injury contingencies etc. It is to his advantage to define it this way because it makes the number look bigger to the public.

It is to Condon's advantage to define "Guaranteed" as "clean money" that doesn't include bells & whistles, because it makes the number look smaller to the public. (He may sincerely believe this or may be playing the spin game).

Whether either or both sides are sincere or blowing smoke, I suspect the numbers we're seeing represent apples vs. oranges.

Is it inconceivable that MJ was never right at the $9 Million figure?

I think there's a distinct possibility that the Yahoo.com dude and MJ had it wrong.

Or not.

Let me go on record right now as saying that, unlike so many other people who have signed on other days of the week, I predict we'll have Leinart in on Thursday.

I'm not big on predictions, but things sure do waddle and quack like a deal is imminent.

 

[40yearfan]

Over the course of a six year contract an extra $3 million in guarantees to Leinart right now comes out to about 500k per season. Does anyone really think that will stop us form getting extensions done when the team goes into every season around $10 million under the cap?

Are you saying the $14 million the Cards are supposedly offering is not enough? What difference does it make how much cap space they have? They should let this agent put them over a barrel because they have cap space available and just overpay the guy to get him in here?

The Cards are sticking to their guns just like Philly or New England would do. More power to them.

 

[Mainstreet]

I call.

I want both sides to put their cards on the table now so I can decide who the bad guy is in this fiasco.

Show me the "clean" guaranteed money being offered over 6 years.

 

[JeffGollin]

Are you saying the $14 million the Cards are supposedly offering is not enough? What difference does it make how much cap space they have? They should let this agent put them over a barrel because they have cap space available and just overpay the guy to get him in here?

The Cards are sticking to their guns just like Philly or New England would do. More power to them.

I'd rephrase your question to be: "Is the Cardinal ownership into winning games and building a powerhouse franchise? Or are they more into phyrric victories.

I'm sure they might score brownie points with fellow team owners for standing up for Old School principles (the very same fellow team owners who behind closed doors would no doubt be snickering their a**es off).

Conversely, if the $14 mil represents "clean" guaranteed money, it should be more than enough.

But is it clean or is it filled with gimmicks?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Are you saying the $14 million the Cards are supposedly offering is not enough? What difference does it make how much cap space they have? They should let this agent put them over a barrel because they have cap space available and just overpay the guy to get him in here?

The Cards are sticking to their guns just like Philly or New England would do. More power to them.

$14 million isn't enough if it's six year and Leinart should be saying no to that. That's a little bit less annually than what Sims got at #9 and he's not a QB who I (and many teams in the NFL) believe deserve a premium.

And can we stop with the New England/Philly comparisons? Unlike the Cardinals, those teams actually have some shred of credibility and a healthy amount of talent and depth so they can afford to play hardball without having to worry about alienating a fanbase or losing games due to a crucial player not getting in on time.

 

[CardLogic]

$14 million isn't enough if it's six year and Leinart should be saying no to that. That's a little bit less annually than what Sims got at #9 and he's not a QB who I (and many teams in the NFL) believe deserve a premium.

9 mill / 5 years = 1.8 mill a year
14 mill / 6 years = 2.33 mill a year

 

[Cheesebeef]

Are you saying the $14 million the Cards are supposedly offering is not enough? What difference does it make how much cap space they have? They should let this agent put them over a barrel because they have cap space available and just overpay the guy to get him in here?

The Cards are sticking to their guns just like Philly or New England would do. More power to them.

when we start winning games like Philly and NE, we can be compared to them. But considering we have been freaking terrible, maybe we need to actually GET TO THEIR LEVEL before we try and emulate what they're doing, huh?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

9 mill / 5 years = 1.8 mill a year
14 mill / 6 years = 2.33 mill a year

Sims got 12 million for 5 years, not 9.

 

[40yearfan]

when we start winning games like Philly and NE, we can be compared to them. But considering we have been freaking terrible, maybe we need to actually GET TO THEIR LEVEL before we try and emulate what they're doing, huh?

Cheese in your profession would you rather be like Spielberg or Martin Breast? You emulate the winners in hopes that you can have the type of sucess they have had.

I don't know how long you've been a fan, but if you were around when Boone was doing the drafting and we were letting our good players go every year because of financial considerations, you would never say same old Cardinals.

Hope to see you at the game. I guess we won't have an ASFN gathering place until after the first game.

 

[JeffGollin]

Sims got 12 million for 5 years, not 9.

So OK - that's worth $2.4 mil guaranteed for 5 years.

Reported Cardinal offer of $14 mil over 6 years would be $2.33 mil.

Or if it was actually $14.5 mil over 6 years, it would be $2.41 mil.

Once again - how much of Sims' guaranteed money is "clean?" How much of the guaranteed money being offered Leinart is "clean?" Are we comparing apples to apples here?

 

[40yearfan]

So OK - that's worth $2.4 mil guaranteed for 5 years.

Reported Cardinal offer of $14 mil over 6 years would be $2.33 mil.

Or if it was actually $14.5 mil over 6 years, it would be $2.41 mil.

Once again - how much of Sims' guaranteed money is "clean?" How much of the guaranteed money being offered Leinart is "clean?" Are we comparing apples to apples here?

If someone wanted to give me $14.5 mil over 6 years, I don't care how dirty it was. Haven't you ever heard of money laundering?

 

[Mainstreet]

I can't believe the Cardinals are subjecting the fans to agony in what should be the year of hope.

If Leinart has been asking for any reasonable amount of clean guaranteed money and the Cardinals have been nitpicking, I will really be upset.

Leinart will have to be holding out for a huge chunk of that Vince Young money for the Cardinals to redeem themselves with me.

I'm about ready to give the new stadium to ASU because they will probably put a better product on the field.

 

[Pariah]

I can't belive the same posts are being re-worded and re-posted over and over again.

Let's sum up, shall we?

"Leinart is being greedy. He should get into camp."

"The Cards are being cheap. Same old cards. Get Leinart into camp no matter the cost."

"I'm turning in my season tickets. Woe are the Cardinals."


Pfft. Get over it. Leinart isn't in camp. That sucks regardless of who's fault it is, but he'll join the team eventually--they always do.

 

[Mainstreet]

I can't belive the same posts are being re-worded and re-posted over and over again.

Let's sum up, shall we?

"Leinart is being greedy. He should get into camp."

"The Cards are being cheap. Same old cards. Get Leinart into camp no matter the cost."

"I'm turning in my season tickets. Woe are the Cardinals."


Pfft. Get over it. Leinart isn't in camp. That sucks regardless of who's fault it is, but he'll join the team eventually--they always do.

You forgot the Kelly Stouffer analogy.

 

[Sandan]

I
I'm about ready to give the new stadium to ASU because they will probably put a better product on the field.

So really what you mean is that you believe the Cardinals are being cheap, despite the attempt and showing and evenhanded approach ?

 

[sundevilscott]

PLEASSSSSSEEEEEE!!! Just get it done!!

 

[Mainstreet]

So really what you mean is that you believe the Cardinals are being cheap, despite the attempt and showing and evenhanded approach ?

I don't have a clue. I just wish I knew the clear guaranteed money being offered to Leinart over a hypothetical 6 years.

All I know is that Leinart is the last first round hold out. I really would like to know where the problem lies... with Leinart or the Cards. If the Cards offer is so good why don't they leak some details to put some pressure on Leinart? I don't know if Leinart's agent is trying to use leverage or not... because of all the Quarterback of the Future hype. I guess only time will tell.

I gave the Cards a clean slate this year after the new stadium was built, a good draft and the signing of Edge.

Actually, I hope the problem with getting a contract done lies with the Leinart camp, because the Cardinals should be fully be aware of how important their public perception should be (especially this year) going into the new stadium.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So really what you mean is that you believe the Cardinals are being cheap, despite the attempt and showing and evenhanded approach ?

sheesh - talk about WILD SPECUALTION - where the hell do you get the "attempt and showing and even handed approach" - is it from the last six years worht of 1st round picks missing training camp time? Or did the tooth fairy tell you this?

And 40 - the biggest problem with your stance is this - WE AREN'T DOING WHAT THE EAGLES AND PATS HAVE DONE - neither team has had 1st round draft pick holdouts for the last six years, neither team has had the ridiculous depth problems with an abundance of cap space like we have (see all the injuries suffered by the Pats laast year and they STILL made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, same for the Eagles two and three years ago) - yes, we are getting our own signed more and more - that's not something that just the Eagles and the Pats do - it's what EVERYONE in the league does. The Eagles and the Pats for the last half decade haven't had hodlouts every year (like we have) and have had sufficient depth to deal with injuries (unlike us) so how exactly are we following their model? We're not. We're following a half-assed attempt at becoming a real NFL team and when you're atrocious like we hhave been, half-assed attempts won't solve ANYTHING - and the product on the field the last two years is proof of that.

 

[Lloydian]

Stupid text alerts! Two new messages, it said. Two! Surely one of them is Leinart signs. No, it's just "get used to not seeing Kenny King and Karlos Dansby."

I got my hopes up for nothing.

 

[Renz]

We should just lock this thread down. All this bickering over rumor and speculation is getting really tired.

 

[Sandan]

If the Cards offer is so good why don't they leak some details to put some pressure on Leinart? I

Because that is, in general the way they do business

 

[Sandan]

Relax Cheesie, I'm not arracking your credentials a a leader of the Dark side.

I was merely refering to his post, where he laid out 2 possiblities to appear to be evan handed, then appeared to assue it was the Cardinals at fault.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Relax Cheesie, I'm not arracking your credentials a a leader of the Dark side.

I was merely refering to his post, where he laid out 2 possiblities to appear to be evan handed, then appeared to assue it was the Cardinals at fault.

arracking, is that some kind of Brit slang?

As far as the "darkside", Nidan, can't we all agree that after four years of you being proven wrong time after time after time about what this team was going to be like while I was conversely proven correct on the flip-side, that the whole dark-side thing really is just a sour-puss' name for THE REALITY-BASED SIDE?