Leinart Contract/Negotiations Discussion

[40yearfan]

sheesh - talk about WILD SPECUALTION - where the hell do you get the "attempt and showing and even handed approach" - is it from the last six years worht of 1st round picks missing training camp time? Or did the tooth fairy tell you this?

And 40 - the biggest problem with your stance is this - WE AREN'T DOING WHAT THE EAGLES AND PATS HAVE DONE - neither team has had 1st round draft pick holdouts for the last six years, neither team has had the ridiculous depth problems with an abundance of cap space like we have (see all the injuries suffered by the Pats laast year and they STILL made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, same for the Eagles two and three years ago) - yes, we are getting our own signed more and more - that's not something that just the Eagles and the Pats do - it's what EVERYONE in the league does. The Eagles and the Pats for the last half decade haven't had hodlouts every year (like we have) and have had sufficient depth to deal with injuries (unlike us) so how exactly are we following their model? We're not. We're following a half-assed attempt at becoming a real NFL team and when you're atrocious like we hhave been, half-assed attempts won't solve ANYTHING - and the product on the field the last two years is proof of that.

Hey, ya gotta start somewhere. I'll guarantee you that when we start winning, it won't be a flash in the pan thing. If Lienhart works out as our QBOF, we will be the next America's team. It sure would be nice to be a football dynasty for a change instead of the class clown.

 

[kerouac9]

Hey, ya gotta start somewhere. I'll guarantee you that when we start winning, it won't be a flash in the pan thing. If Lienhart works out as our QBOF, we will be the next America's team. It sure would be nice to be a football dynasty for a change instead of the class clown.

Aren't we putting the cart before the horse here? We've won 11 games in the past two seasons.

 

[mesacardsfan]

Just get it done hes the 10pick not the first its slotted maybe a little more bonus since hes a QB but thats it! Let him prove himself in the NFL before he gets a monster payday, freakin rookies get paid too much. AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!

 

[Sandan]

As far as the "darkside", Nidan, can't we all agree that after four years of you being proven wrong time after time after time about what this team was going to be like while I was conversely proven correct on the flip-side, that the whole dark-side thing really is just a sour-puss' name for THE REALITY-BASED SIDE?

Hmm, no you are not reality based.

You assume that because I resist the you and K9 pounding on the same old 'Cardinals are stupid and Cheap' drum, that I think everything is hunkydory.

I don't and never have, it's just the tired old arguments you use are just that tired and old and nothing more then speculation. What's even worse is that occasionaly I know your speculations are incorrect, not often but occasionaly.

 

[kerouac9]

nidan, I think the problem is that you're too quick to drop the considered arguments of fans and realists like cheesy and I into the "Cardinals are stupid and cheap" circular file.

Point out where we say that the Cards are "stupid and cheap". I think that Rod Graves is a poor talent evaluator and an ineffective contract negotiator. I think that the team didn't do enough in free agency, and that they're exposed for that right now, but I don't think that springs from an unwillingness to spend money period as much as Rod Graves and Bill Bidwill asserting control over an organization in which Denny Green and Michael Bidwill were ascendant and the objective seemed to be within reach.

I think taht Michael and Denny are concerned with winning. I think that Bill and Rod are concerned with winning their way.

Their way hasn't been very effective, regardless of how nice of people they may be.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Hmm, no you are not reality based.

You assume that because I resist the you and K9 pounding on the same old 'Cardinals are stupid and Cheap' drum, that I think everything is hunkydory.

I don't and never have, it's just the tired old arguments you use are just that tired and old and nothing more then speculation. What's even worse is that occasionaly I know your speculations are incorrect, not often but occasionaly.

you know why those arguments are tired and old - BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T HAD TO CHANGE - that's why their tired and old Nidan - and that's because management hasn't changed in some VERY IMPORTANT AREAS - it's not speculation that shows 6 straight years of not getting a first round draft pick in on time - it'snot speculation that has shown the past THREE years that we've gone into the season with a very large amount of cap space even though we didn't have quality depth and in some case even quality starters on the team - NONE of that can be debated Nidan and to believe that there wasn't ANYTHING out there in any of those years that wasn't bettter than what we already had is complete and utter BS considering we have been one of the worst teams in the league the last three years - that ALONE shows there HAS to be something better out there.

Bottom line here - it's well established for the last 4 years that I have been proven correct on such a cornocopia of things, whereas you, my friend, have been proven wrong over and over and over and over and over again. THAT'S REALITY - that ain't pessimism - it's not a darkside - it's what has actually happened. Period.

As far as my specualtions being wrong occassionally - what gives you this information? Is it from Rod Graves himself? If that's the case, consider the source of your information or just put it out there instead of hiding behind some kind of boogeyman that allows you to say, without any kind of justification - I know more than you know. And even if that IS the case, you're still wrong more often than not.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Hmm, no you are not reality based.

says the man who used to tell me I was crazy because I thought the last of the Mackage was going to be an abomination on a level the NFL hasn't often seen.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Nidan - let me ask you this - since you've never answered this question.

You believe that Mac was calling all the shots in the debacle draft of 2003, correct? Do you think it was wise for a GM to let a lame-duck coach, hanging on by a thread, to make decisions that would affect his team for the next decade?

 

[Duckjake]

Here we are with our new stadium still waiting for the TV money to come in so we can sign our first round draft pick because the team doesn't have the money on hand to pay the signing bonus.

I had a feeling the revenue stream wouldn't start soon enough to avoid one more preseason like this.

 

[Mainstreet]

So really what you mean is that you believe the Cardinals are being cheap, despite the attempt and showing and evenhanded approach ?

Do you just like to misrepresent my position or you just don't understand it?

 

[Sandan]

It just looked to me like the even handed starter, followed up by a cheap shot.

If that wasn't the intention I appologise

 

[Cheesebeef]

ah - just like old times. Nidan, you crack me up man.

 

[Sandan]

You believe that Mac was calling all the shots in the debacle draft of 2003, correct?

I can't answer that question for several reasons, not the least of which is the 'all' part. Neither of us were in the room so we don't know about the 'all' part.

Do you think it was wise for a GM to let a lame-duck coach, hanging on by a thread, to make decisions that would affect his team for the next decade?

Depends if you are giving him one last chance to show his tuff while youplan for what to do next.

iirc that was also when MB took over effective control from his father. I expect that the planning that MB/RG inherited was not, shall we say, stellar.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Depends if you are giving him one last chance to show his tuff while youplan for what to do next.

that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. A guy like Bill Parcells - you know - 2 time Super Bowl winner - HOFer - when he was in NE even HE didn't have any say on draft day and letf because of it - but you think that it MIGHT be okay if you're giving someone one last chance to show his stuff and that guy isn't Bill Parcells - IT'S COACH FREAKING SMACK?

That is out and out the dumbest thing I have ever seen you say on this board Nidan. NO ONE gives a pathetic lame duck head coach the keys to the driver's seat on draft day while "they're planning for what to do next" - PLANNING FOR WHAT TO DO NEXT IS WHY YOU HAVE THE DRAFT.

Come on man - seriously - the above demonstrates such a lack of general common sense, not to mention no clue of how a credibly working NFL managment program is run.

 

[kerouac9]

Seriously, nidan. If you can read the way cheesebeef just laid it out and not think that either Rod Graves flat-out lied to you when he said that the 2003 draft debacle wasn't his fault or was massively, impermissably, unforgiveably stupid in handing the keys to Mac, well, your common sense is just about irretrivable.

 

[Duckjake]

NO ONE gives a pathetic lame duck head coach the keys to the driver's seat on draft day while "they're planning for what to do next" - PLANNING FOR WHAT TO DO NEXT IS WHY YOU HAVE THE DRAFT.

Come on man - seriously - the above demonstrates such a lack of general common sense, not to mention no clue of how a credibly working NFL managment program is run.

The Bidwills have a credibly working NFL management program?

 

[kerouac9]

The Bidwills have a credibly working NFL management program?

According to the apologists for the current management, they do.

 

[Mainstreet]

Just an observation, if the Cardinals play as well as the posters scrimmage on this Board, they will have a great team.

 

[Sandan]

What I was trying to say and you jumped off the deep end Cheese, is [using the technique you seem to love so much]

I DON"T KNOW WHY THE KEPT MAC AROUND THAT FINAL YEAR AND NEITHER DO YOU.

As for dumb posts well, lot's of us have practice at that.

 

[Sandan]

I have not told you word 1 what RG may or may not have said to me

 

[Cheesebeef]

What I was trying to say and you jumped off the deep end Cheese, is [using the technique you seem to love so much]

I DON"T KNOW WHY THE KEPT MAC AROUND THAT FINAL YEAR AND NEITHER DO YOU.

what does this have to do with handing the keys over to an established inept lame-duck coach to make decisions that will impact your team for the next decade? Keeping Mac around for another year as coach ain't the issue - letting him make personnel decisions that will impact your team beyond his years (which every knew were basically up) is. There's really no defense for this whatsoever, so basically, it's about time you cop to something, regardless of WHO did the acttual drafting, the onus of direct blame falls on one man's shoulders - Rod Graves - because he's either the guy who did the drafting or he's the guy who delegated the draft to an absolute moron who was already in the midst of driving the club into the ground, correct?

 

[BigRedArk]

Just an observation, if the Cardinals play as well as the posters scrimmage on this Board, they will have a great team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

can they just get this freaking deal done so I can divest myself of this infernal board again!? I'm sick of checking here every ten minutes!

Ugh - just when you think you're out, they pull you back in!

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I put ZERO stock in anything Jerk-reckie has to say, he is a class A douchebag...

 

[Evil Ash]

can they just get this freaking deal done so I can divest myself of this infernal board again!? I'm sick of checking here every ten minutes!

Ugh - just when you think you're out, they pull you back in!

Just my guess ... they'll agree to terms probably tomorrow and he'll sign as well as report on Thursday.