Leinart Contract/Negotiations Discussion

[40yearfan]

Why not spend to win this year? A year in a brand new stadium when you have this town by the balls.

Why?

Especially knowing that you have plenty of cap space next season to extend them, sign another group of FA's as good as this year, still have money left over for rookies, injuries, PS, and any other contingency plan you want to think of, and still have money left over for the this future plan that has never materialized. When are we going to stop planning for the future and start winning now? Enough planning already. I would be on your side of the debate if we were on year 1 or 2 of a plan, but alas we are not.

What is not to get?

Didn't this whole thread start because Lienhart isn't signed yet and hasn't this whole discourse between you and I has been you saying the Cards are cheap and should spend more money and me saying they are doing just fine?

I can understand your side of the argument. Why can't you understand mine? You gotta be a Democrat.

 

[Scott MS]

MJ is saying that the Leinart camp wants this deal to be done by monday

Yeah, common sense. If he's doesn't hit camp on Monday and get a full week in before pre-season #2, he'll likely have a hard time passing up Navarre on the depth chart.

 

[abomb]

Yeah, common sense. If he's doesn't hit camp on Monday and get a full week in before pre-season #2, he'll likely have a hard time passing up Navarre on the depth chart.

I'm not so sure that even if Leinart signed today that he could even work to the #2 by next weekend. He has missed a lot of time and I wonder if Denny will doghouse Leinart a bit when he gets to camp.

 

[Mainstreet]

I can understand your side of the argument. Why can't you understand mine? You gotta be a Democrat.

I'm sure glad I don't think like you. Obviously you are right and everybody else is wrong... yes, that's how it works... when you have a closed mind.

 

[Pariah]

Now if you can just get someone else to agree with you, you should be alright.

40, with all due respsect, I think you're the one who's standing alone --or at least in the minortity--on this.

 

[kerouac9]

I wonder if Denny will doghouse Leinart a bit when he gets to camp.

I doubt it. Rolle wasn't in the doghouse after his holdout last season; he was a starter in Week 1. Denny understands that this is a business and you have to get the best deal that you can, but once you sign that deal, you have to give 100%.

 

[joeshmo]

I can understand your side of the argument. Why can't you understand mine? You gotta be a Democrat.

You can uderstand my side of the arguement. Thats news to me.

And I have agreed with you multpile times in this thread, even saying I like Mike B and Graves, I said I Like the direction things are moving. All I have ever stated is that we are not there yet and 10/40 is unacceptable, and it is unacceptable.

 

[joeshmo]

Yes, God forbid that we don't have immediate action. Spend every dime right now so we won't have to worry about spending anything later. Don't worry about the $147 million we have to repay for the stadium, we have cap space left so it's obvious we have cash just sitting around. We still have checks left in the check book.

Holy Crap.

Not once did i say spend every dime. You keep arguing points I have never even made. I have said as much many times becuase you keep brining it up, and I ever time I tell you that isnt what I am talking about.

Just to sum it up, I have been talking about a medium ground between the ultra conservative(your side) and the Ultra aggresive(Dan snyder). I have been proposing this whole time we get closer to a middle ground. 10/40 isnt a middle ground.

 

[joeshmo]

Don't worry about the $147 million we have to repay for the stadium, we have cap space left so it's obvious we have cash just sitting around. We still have checks left in the check book.

First it was we cant spend like normal teams becuase we dont have a stadium. Now its we dont spend like normal teams becuase we have to pay for a stadium.

So now we are going to have to wait until they pay off that 147 Mill to spend like normal teams.

And the revenue sharing they get more then pays for players on the team. That is why the revenue sharing and the TV contracts are the basis for the Cap. In fact they only use more 60% of that revenue sharing and tv contracts on the players. So where is that other 30 to 40 % going. Where will the naming rights be going. Where will the sold out stadium and consessions be going.

So you are telling me that the team is a bunch of liars now. Becuase they all told us many times. Now that we have a stadium we can spend like normal teams.

 

[joeshmo]

So how much cap space did the Cards have left in 2004 and 2005? You just made a statement that they are not spending within 2% of the cap, so back it up.

Once again since you didnt get it the first time.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1067113&postcount=736

And we had 8 Mill left game 1 last season. And 11 Mill to begin 2004. Good things we didnt spend that money the beginning of the season so we wouldnt have to go through another 6-10 and 5-11 team again.

Why spend time answering hypothetical questions? It hasn't happened.

Why not answer it. Just trying to get a gauge on what you are willing to except on the not spend any money scale.

I can understand why you think it's ridiculous to plan for the future. You have to have patience for that.

how much longer are we going to be planning for the future. We have been planning for the future for 50 years now. At some you got wonder, are we there yet. And I never said that planning for the future is crazy, just that 10/40 is way overboard.

 

[joeshmo]

Do you ever get tired of hearing yourself talk? I'll bet your wife/children are miserable people having to listen to how great you are all the time. Must be nice to be perfect. Now if you can just get someone else to agree with you, you should be alright.

As for getting someone to agree with me. Well I will just leave Bachs, K9's, Pariahs, Russ and a few others along with all of their past posts speak for them selves if you hadnt seen them already.

Wow great rebutall. Insults to me and my family. Nice. Signs of a man slowing walking the plank reaching for straws.

Call me ever name name in the book but, How dare you bring up my family . Complete load of crap and uncalled for.

Since this seems you now want to turn this into a insult fest thread instead of a debate thread, I will go ahead and leave this thread alone as I wont repsond in kind.

 

[Scott MS]

I'm not so sure that even if Leinart signed today that he could even work to the #2 by next weekend. He has missed a lot of time and I wonder if Denny will doghouse Leinart a bit when he gets to camp.

I wasn't necessarily thinking #2 by next weekend, I was thinking by the start of the season. If he misses 2 pre-season games and Navarre plays a lot, Leinart has a lot of work to do in the last two pre-season games to get to #2 by the start of the season.

 

[joeshmo]

40, with all due respsect, I think you're the one who's standing alone --or at least in the minortity--on this.

 

[SuperSpck]

Well, it's Saturday and I've just checked out the box scores.

Name CMP/ATT YRS TD INT
J. Cutler 16/22 192 1 0
D. Orlovsky 6/8 54 1 1
A. Smith 16/21 137 0 0
M. Schaub 7/13 102 1 1
D. Shockley 4/10 40 0 0
E. Manning 4/7 74 0 0
K. Boller 12/18 100 0 0
B. Gradkowski 11/13 104 2 0
K. Clemens 10/14 92 0 0


OK you get the idea.

My point is that there are a lot of young guns (I know, not all rookies) out there that are getting tested.

While I can understand Leinart's desire to maximize his personal fortune I'm starting to get "itchy" to see him on the field.

We all know that Warner's chances of playing a full 16 games (plus playoffs!) are low so I want Leinart in as many different playing situations as he can NOW.

As someone who probably won't see a multi-million dollar contract (and endorsment contracts, which is where a pro athelete actually makes a bulk of his money) I'm wondering why there's so much posturing over such issues.

If you're going to make 3 million a year are you really going to complain about it not being 3.5 or 4 million? Well, yeah we all would, but we'd also have lost sight of what making 4 million a year looks like to the factory workers and delivery drivers.

 

[40yearfan]

As for getting someone to agree with me. Well I will just leave Bachs, K9's, Pariahs, Russ and a few others along with all of their past posts speak for them selves if you hadnt seen them already.

Wow great rebutall. Insults to me and my family. Nice. Signs of a man slowing walking the plank reaching for straws.

Call me ever name name in the book but, How dare you bring up my family . Complete load of crap and uncalled for.

Since this seems you now want to turn this into a insult fest thread instead of a debate thread, I will go ahead and leave this thread alone as I wont repsond in kind.

Good. I'm tired of your babbling. You can't just debate or even consider there's another side to this issue. I'm sure you have lots of time to answer as you have been doing, but some of us have to work for a living and can't spend every waking minute on this board. And quit crying. You started this crap.

 

[40yearfan]

40, with all due respsect, I think you're the one who's standing alone --or at least in the minortity--on this.

That doesn't make my position any less important. I back what the Cards are doing and you guys don't but I can look at the financial aspects from a business standpoint. Believe me there are other guys on this board who agree with me, but they don't want to start a argument with joeschmo because he gets so belligerent and overbearing.

 

[Pariah]

That doesn't make my position any less important.

I didn't say it did. Just pointing out that Joe isn't alone on this issue--he's in the majority.

 

[40yearfan]

I didn't say it did. Just pointing out that Joe isn't alone on this issue--he's in the majority.

Correction, he's in the majority of people responding to this thread who have no business orientation. Running an operation like an NFL team requires more knowledge than just being a fan.

 

[Pariah]

Correction, he's in the majority of people responding to this thread who have no business orientation. Running an operation like an NFL team requires more knowledge than just being a fan.

Then they're in the minority among NFL teams. There's a 50 year track record to show for it.

 

[Shogun]

I'm starting to get ancy to see Leinart on the field after watching Cutler last night, but get what you can, Matt, the NFL is a business first and foremost.

 

[Renz]

Bad news from ProFotball Talk:

LEINART DEAL NOT IN THE CARDS

A league source tells us that recent bargaining sessions between the Arizona Cardinals and first-round draft pick Matt Leinart have resulted in no real progress, and that a deal is unlikely through the weekend.

As of Thursday, the possibility of a breakthrough existed. Leinart is the lone remaining unsigned first-round pick.

The Cardinals launch their preseason schedule on Saturday, hosting the Steelers in the first game at the team's new stadium.

Without Leinart, who is listed third on the team's official depth chart, the only understudies to starter Kurt Warner are John Navarre, Rohan Davey, and Jeff Otis.

Actually, I think the lack of news from the negotiations is a good sign. At least it means the two sides are still talking. If negotiations had broken down then it would have been reported by now.

 

[Billy Flynt]

PFT is about the least reliable source out there...

 

[joeshmo]

Then they're in the minority among NFL teams. There's a 50 year track record to show for it.

Why are you even responding. It is clear that you dont have a business degree so your opinion doesnt matter.

I mean the guy just told myself, Russ, Bach, yourself, that your opinion doesnt count. Does he even know what any of us do for a living or what our backgrounds are.

 

[joeshmo]

Believe me there are other guys on this board who agree with me, but they don't want to start a argument with joeschmo because he gets so belligerent and overbearing.

More insults. Keep them coming.

Then let all of those poeple behind speak up, because all I here are cricketts. I doubt anyone here is afriad of a such a big bad message board bully as myself. You dont give people here enough credit, they all must be uneducated wusses or something the way you are talking. I am belligerent and overbearing, what ever, at least I hvent gone low enough by insulting anyone or their families yet. But hey to each is own.

 

[joeshmo]

Correction, he's in the majority of people responding to this thread who have no business orientation. Running an operation like an NFL team requires more knowledge than just being a fan.

Wow, that is some hard core spin control.

Just to use one of your lines. "You must be a republican".