Let’s Take a Moment to Overreact to Kyler’s IG Page

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

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[RON_IN_OC]

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He's not wrong.

 

[AZ Native]

He's not wrong.

I'm not convinced we have a franchise quarterback after the collapse at the end of last season and especially the terrible playoff showing.

 

[PACardsFan]

I’ve been a Cardinal fan longer than most on this board. So listen to me & not them. As a fan of almost 60 years, I have SEEN IT ALL. One thing is certain, you can count on less than one hand how many good young QB’s we’ve had in our HISTORY. Murray is WITHOUT A DOUBT, the most talented young QB we’ve ever had. You do not hesitate a nanosecond to re-sign him. Is it a guarantee that we will win Super Bowls if we do that? Absolutely not. There are no guarantees. But re-signing Murray is a good start for a franchise that has almost always been WITHOUT a long term solution at the QB position. Cardinals need to do this or it’s just the “Same ole Cardinals”.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I’ve been a Cardinal fan longer than most on this board. So listen to me & not them. As a fan of almost 60 years, I have SEEN IT ALL. One thing is certain, you can count on less than one hand how many good young QB’s we’ve had in our HISTORY. Murray is WITHOUT A DOUBT, the most talented young QB we’ve ever had. You do not hesitate a nanosecond to re-sign him. Is it a guarantee that we will win Super Bowls if we do that? Absolutely not. There are no guarantees. But re-signing Murray is a good start for a franchise that has almost always been WITHOUT a long term solution at the QB position. Cardinals need to do this or it’s just the “Same ole Cardinals”.

Is he better than Lomax pre-injury?

 

[Jetstream Green]

Is he better than Lomax pre-injury?

Lomax was damn good and in total Cardinal luck, he received a debilitating hip injury. Hey, I'm sporting a Lomax jersey on my avatar but the essential part of PACard's statement is that Kyler is worth rolling the dice on so far and yes giving him a hefty extension makes total sense if one compares the Cardinals of decades late with the lone bright light being Jake the Snake

 

[PACardsFan]

Is he better than Lomax pre-injury?

I was and still am a huge fan of Neil Lomax. In my book, he was better than Jim Hart. But, in no way, was Lomax better than Murray. Sadly, in the 60 years I’ve watched this team, we’ve only had a few “young” QB’s. I’m talking about guys that we drafted or came to the Cardinals at a very young age. Those few guys are Hart, Lomax, Plummer, and Murray. I would rank them:
1. Murray
2. Lomax
3. Hart
4. Plummer

The only other Cardinal QB’s that were good came to us when their careers were advanced: Charley Johnson (early to mid 60’s), Warner, Palmer.

IMO, Murray has already proven that he’s a very good NFL QB. He can be a great NFL QB if he works hard, becomes more emotionally mature AND the Cardinal FO improves the OL, DL, WR depth, and the secondary.

It would be absolute insanity to not extend a 24 year old kid who’s as talented as Murray is.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Lomax was damn good and in total Cardinal luck, he received a debilitating hip injury. Hey, I'm sporting a Lomax jersey on my avatar but the essential part of PACard's statement is that Kyler is worth rolling the dice on so far and yes giving him a hefty extension makes total sense if one compares the Cardinals of decades late with the lone bright light being Jake the Snake

I was just asking whether he thought Lomax was a better young prospect than kyler. No commentary on kyler on my part. I ask because I wasn’t a Cardinal fan before they moved to AZ and so I never got to see Lomax at his height.

 

[Redsz]

The pictures are back up on Instagram. Deal imminent?

It was significant when he took it off so its significant when he puts it back on. Dude is about to get paid.

 

[Stout]

It was significant when he took it off so its significant when he puts it back on. Dude is about to get paid.

Sadly, I agree.

 

[Stout]

I was and still am a huge fan of Neil Lomax. In my book, he was better than Jim Hart. But, in no way, was Lomax better than Murray. Sadly, in the 60 years I’ve watched this team, we’ve only had a few “young” QB’s. I’m talking about guys that we drafted or came to the Cardinals at a very young age. Those few guys are Hart, Lomax, Plummer, and Murray. I would rank them:
1. Murray
2. Lomax
3. Hart
4. Plummer

The only other Cardinal QB’s that were good came to us when their careers were advanced: Charley Johnson (early to mid 60’s), Warner, Palmer.

IMO, Murray has already proven that he’s a very good NFL QB. He can be a great NFL QB if he works hard, becomes more emotionally mature AND the Cardinal FO improves the OL, DL, WR depth, and the secondary.

It would be absolute insanity to not extend a 24 year old kid who’s as talented as Murray is.

So all KM has to do is completely reverse his MO, and all Keim has to do is improve half the team. ANY team will win the SB or have a shot at it if their QB and GM can do these things. When is the story going to be how KM makes the whole team better rather than KM has to change X, Y, Z AND get tons of better talent around him to be good?

Note, I don't disagree with your premise--he is undoubtedly the best young QB we've had--talent-wise. He is light years away from where he needs to be mentally. That needs to change before he takes another snap.

 

[PACardsFan]

So all KM has to do is completely reverse his MO, and all Keim has to do is improve half the team. ANY team will win the SB or have a shot at it if their QB and GM can do these things. When is the story going to be how KM makes the whole team better rather than KM has to change X, Y, Z AND get tons of better talent around him to be good?

Note, I don't disagree with your premise--he is undoubtedly the best young QB we've had--talent-wise. He is light years away from where he needs to be mentally. That needs to change before he takes another snap.

Light years away? Ridiculous statement. John Skelton was light years away. We're all entitled to our opinions I guess. Because you didn't get your way back on Draft Night 2019, you hold on to your jaded view of Murray. Your entitled to that, but your views don't hold water. He has improved each year, we have improved each year. OROY, 2 Pro Bowls, already holds certain Cardinal records & certain NFL records over his first 3 seasons. Murray has taken the worst Cardinal team in franchise history to 11 wins & a playoff berth in 3 years. Regardless of the path & regardless of how they played in the 1 playoff game, that is still a ton of progress. Again, IMO your opinion looks foolish when you look at his body of work. Yor extend him, he has to continue to improve (and he will), and you put weapons around him. I was listening to Peyton Manning gush over Murray just a few nights ago. Said Murray is considerably better than he was at the same stage in their careers & crazy impressive because Murray only played 1 year of college football.

 

[Russ Smith]

You can't compare Lomax and Kyler because the eras are different. Lomax in his prime was great, threw the best deep ball in the league(like Kyler) and was just a real talent. He took lots of hits and it eventually caught up to him first the shoulder that derailed the 84 season and then the hip.

overall I'd say kyler is better because he can move and Lomax couldn't, but Neil in the pocket was clearly better.

 

[PACardsFan]

You can't compare Lomax and Kyler because the eras are different. Lomax in his prime was great, threw the best deep ball in the league(like Kyler) and was just a real talent. He took lots of hits and it eventually caught up to him first the shoulder that derailed the 84 season and then the hip.

overall I'd say kyler is better because he can move and Lomax couldn't, but Neil in the pocket was clearly better.

That's a fair assessment. Lomax's best year by far was 84, when he threw for over 4600 yards, 28 Tds & 16 interceptions. I think his shoulder injury may have been 85, but not sure. Like Murray, Lomax threw a pretty long ball & no one in the NFL could run with Jetstream Green during that era. Lomax had the much better OL with Sharpe, Bostic, and Tootie Robbins on that line. He had a much better RB in OJ Anderson, and a lethal WR tandem of Green & Tilley. Up to 1984, Lomax was definitely better in the pocket than Murray. In 85, Lomax was sacked 61 times & only threw for 3200 yards even though he played in all 16 games. As you stated, Lomax had almost no ability to escape sacks. He became real gun shy after the 61 sack season & never returned to his 84 form. And obviously, the hip injury in 88 or 89 was a career ending injury. I'd also say that Lomax was more prone to interceptions that Kyler is.

 

[Realist Cards Fan]

You can't compare Lomax and Kyler because the eras are different. Lomax in his prime was great, threw the best deep ball in the league(like Kyler) and was just a real talent. He took lots of hits and it eventually caught up to him first the shoulder that derailed the 84 season and then the hip.

overall I'd say kyler is better because he can move and Lomax couldn't, but Neil in the pocket was clearly better.

Been reading your guys posts for quite a while. Great to live in a country with somewhat freedom of speech. The love affair with Kyler is such a misguided hope. We have been bad for so long we cannot even comprehend logic anymore. Kyler is a good QB. He is not the answer for long term. He lacks intensity the will to win and rally teammates. NFL says he is 5'10. Most likely 5'8 since its been proven fact that media outlets and professional sports that they lie about physical features in all sports. Lets list some factual points on why he isnt past that "good QB" mark. - Cant see over the o-line, Throws in middle of field are basically non existent. Film film film shows this. "his deep ball" more like moon shots in general directions that he doesn't lead receivers to. Will not and cannot be coached. Any coach on ANY level will tell you it does not matter your natural athletic ability if you can't be coached. thats just a few things, not to mention decisions in tight games and or important games.

All in all yes he flashes with elusiveness (if he actually does it). Has great zip when not throwing moon shots. ability to escape is great as long as you dont run 15 yards backwards(which is probably more than 50% of time).

He is perhaps at the moment a fringe top 10 QB

Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Aaron Rodgers, Deshaun Watson, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Matthew Stafford, Dak Prescott
I guess yes maybe at #10 Arguably Dak, Kirk, Stafford, or Cousins can be thrown with Kyler as far as total QB performance. But all those QBs actually throw for far better TD/INT ratios and EVERY SINGLE QB over 4000 yards some 5000 multiple times EXCEPT Kyler.

Herbert has about 9 NFL records he now owns in only 2 years playing.
What about kyler besides Franchise records? No NFL records worth talking about?

Deserving top PAY over get paid as 10th best QB
I gonna have to say get paid as 10th best


i will enjoy seeing diehards that are blinded by our hopium debate this

 

[PACardsFan]

Been reading your guys posts for quite a while. Great to live in a country with somewhat freedom of speech. The love affair with Kyler is such a misguided hope. We have been bad for so long we cannot even comprehend logic anymore. Kyler is a good QB. He is not the answer for long term. He lacks intensity the will to win and rally teammates. NFL says he is 5'10. Most likely 5'8 since its been proven fact that media outlets and professional sports that they lie about physical features in all sports. Lets list some factual points on why he isnt past that "good QB" mark. - Cant see over the o-line, Throws in middle of field are basically non existent. Film film film shows this. "his deep ball" more like moon shots in general directions that he doesn't lead receivers to. Will not and cannot be coached. Any coach on ANY level will tell you it does not matter your natural athletic ability if you can't be coached. thats just a few things, not to mention decisions in tight games and or important games.

All in all yes he flashes with elusiveness (if he actually does it). Has great zip when not throwing moon shots. ability to escape is great as long as you dont run 15 yards backwards(which is probably more than 50% of time).

He is perhaps at the moment a fringe top 10 QB

Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Aaron Rodgers, Deshaun Watson, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Matthew Stafford, Dak Prescott
I guess yes maybe at #10 Arguably Dak, Kirk, Stafford, or Cousins can be thrown with Kyler as far as total QB performance. But all those QBs actually throw for far better TD/INT ratios and EVERY SINGLE QB over 4000 yards some 5000 multiple times EXCEPT Kyler.

Herbert has about 9 NFL records he now owns in only 2 years playing.
What about kyler besides Franchise records? No NFL records worth talking about?

Deserving top PAY over get paid as 10th best QB
I gonna have to say get paid as 10th best


i will enjoy seeing diehards that are blinded by our hopium debate this

Entitled to your opinion, but obviously a troll.

 

[tnmike]

Been reading your guys posts for quite a while. Great to live in a country with somewhat freedom of speech. The love affair with Kyler is such a misguided hope. We have been bad for so long we cannot even comprehend logic anymore. Kyler is a good QB. He is not the answer for long term. He lacks intensity the will to win and rally teammates. NFL says he is 5'10. Most likely 5'8 since its been proven fact that media outlets and professional sports that they lie about physical features in all sports. Lets list some factual points on why he isnt past that "good QB" mark. - Cant see over the o-line, Throws in middle of field are basically non existent. Film film film shows this. "his deep ball" more like moon shots in general directions that he doesn't lead receivers to. Will not and cannot be coached. Any coach on ANY level will tell you it does not matter your natural athletic ability if you can't be coached. thats just a few things, not to mention decisions in tight games and or important games.

All in all yes he flashes with elusiveness (if he actually does it). Has great zip when not throwing moon shots. ability to escape is great as long as you dont run 15 yards backwards(which is probably more than 50% of time).

He is perhaps at the moment a fringe top 10 QB

Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Aaron Rodgers, Deshaun Watson, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Matthew Stafford, Dak Prescott
I guess yes maybe at #10 Arguably Dak, Kirk, Stafford, or Cousins can be thrown with Kyler as far as total QB performance. But all those QBs actually throw for far better TD/INT ratios and EVERY SINGLE QB over 4000 yards some 5000 multiple times EXCEPT Kyler.

Herbert has about 9 NFL records he now owns in only 2 years playing.
What about kyler besides Franchise records? No NFL records worth talking about?

Deserving top PAY over get paid as 10th best QB
I gonna have to say get paid as 10th best


i will enjoy seeing diehards that are blinded by our hopium debate this

 

[QuebecCard]

Been reading your guys posts for quite a while. Great to live in a country with somewhat freedom of speech. The love affair with Kyler is such a misguided hope. We have been bad for so long we cannot even comprehend logic anymore. Kyler is a good QB. He is not the answer for long term. He lacks intensity the will to win and rally teammates. NFL says he is 5'10. Most likely 5'8 since its been proven fact that media outlets and professional sports that they lie about physical features in all sports. Lets list some factual points on why he isnt past that "good QB" mark. - Cant see over the o-line, Throws in middle of field are basically non existent. Film film film shows this. "his deep ball" more like moon shots in general directions that he doesn't lead receivers to. Will not and cannot be coached. Any coach on ANY level will tell you it does not matter your natural athletic ability if you can't be coached. thats just a few things, not to mention decisions in tight games and or important games.

All in all yes he flashes with elusiveness (if he actually does it). Has great zip when not throwing moon shots. ability to escape is great as long as you dont run 15 yards backwards(which is probably more than 50% of time).

He is perhaps at the moment a fringe top 10 QB

Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Aaron Rodgers, Deshaun Watson, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Matthew Stafford, Dak Prescott
I guess yes maybe at #10 Arguably Dak, Kirk, Stafford, or Cousins can be thrown with Kyler as far as total QB performance. But all those QBs actually throw for far better TD/INT ratios and EVERY SINGLE QB over 4000 yards some 5000 multiple times EXCEPT Kyler.

Herbert has about 9 NFL records he now owns in only 2 years playing.
What about kyler besides Franchise records? No NFL records worth talking about?

Deserving top PAY over get paid as 10th best QB
I gonna have to say get paid as 10th best


i will enjoy seeing diehards that are blinded by our hopium debate this

I for one won't spend a line debating this self-described 'Realist's' logic.

 

[PJ1]

I’ve been a Cardinal fan longer than most on this board. So listen to me & not them. As a fan of almost 60 years, I have SEEN IT ALL. One thing is certain, you can count on less than one hand how many good young QB’s we’ve had in our HISTORY. Murray is WITHOUT A DOUBT, the most talented young QB we’ve ever had. You do not hesitate a nanosecond to re-sign him. Is it a guarantee that we will win Super Bowls if we do that? Absolutely not. There are no guarantees. But re-signing Murray is a good start for a franchise that has almost always been WITHOUT a long term solution at the QB position. Cardinals need to do this or it’s just the “Same ole Cardinals”.

You can't compare Lomax and Kyler because the eras are different. Lomax in his prime was great, threw the best deep ball in the league(like Kyler) and was just a real talent. He took lots of hits and it eventually caught up to him first the shoulder that derailed the 84 season and then the hip.

overall I'd say kyler is better because he can move and Lomax couldn't, but Neil in the pocket was clearly better.

Agree tough to compare but I will take Lomax as a pure passer over KM any day. KM running ability an advantage but if I need a late game drive with little time left I choose Lomax every time.

 

[SoonerLou]

Lomax's #s really were solid for the era he was in.

 

[Krangodnzr]

So all KM has to do is completely reverse his MO, and all Keim has to do is improve half the team. ANY team will win the SB or have a shot at it if their QB and GM can do these things. When is the story going to be how KM makes the whole team better rather than KM has to change X, Y, Z AND get tons of better talent around him to be good?

Note, I don't disagree with your premise--he is undoubtedly the best young QB we've had--talent-wise. He is light years away from where he needs to be mentally. That needs to change before he takes another snap.

I wouldn't say light years.

The biggest issue with Murray coming out from college was his lack of game snaps. Murray's first two years were essentially making up for his lack of college snaps.

He does need to get a lot better. While he makes some amazing plays that few players in the history of the NFL could make (HAIL MURRAY!?!?), he struggles at times on the routine aspects of NFL QBing. I'm 100% confident he will get there barring injury. Never been more confident about a QB doing that, but what I fear, is that he will alienate people here in Arizona with his attitude and go on to have a long propserous career elsewhere.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I wouldn't say light years.

The biggest issue with Murray coming out from college was his lack of game snaps. Murray's first two years were essentially making up for his lack of college snaps.

He does need to get a lot better. While he makes some amazing plays that few players in the history of the NFL could make (HAIL MURRAY!?!?), he struggles at times on the routine aspects of NFL QBing. I'm 100% confident he will get there barring injury. Never been more confident about a QB doing that, but what I fear, is that he will alienate people here in Arizona with his attitude and go on to have a long propserous career elsewhere.

If he cannot master the social part of the game (communication, being a leader) he will continue to alienate fans and teammates alike. If he cannot play with minor injuries without completely sucking the second half of most seasons he won't have a long prosperous career anywhere.

 

[Krangodnzr]

If he cannot master the social part of the game (communication, being a leader) he will continue to alienate fans and teammates alike. If he cannot play with minor injuries without completely sucking the second half of most seasons he won't have a long prosperous career anywhere.

Other than rumors, we haven't heard this is true. In fact Fitzgerald's beef was proven to be false by Fitz himself.

We don't know what people in the locker room think of Murray.

The second part, I agree.

 

[Russ Smith]

Been reading your guys posts for quite a while. Great to live in a country with somewhat freedom of speech. The love affair with Kyler is such a misguided hope. We have been bad for so long we cannot even comprehend logic anymore. Kyler is a good QB. He is not the answer for long term. He lacks intensity the will to win and rally teammates. NFL says he is 5'10. Most likely 5'8 since its been proven fact that media outlets and professional sports that they lie about physical features in all sports. Lets list some factual points on why he isnt past that "good QB" mark. - Cant see over the o-line, Throws in middle of field are basically non existent. Film film film shows this. "his deep ball" more like moon shots in general directions that he doesn't lead receivers to. Will not and cannot be coached. Any coach on ANY level will tell you it does not matter your natural athletic ability if you can't be coached. thats just a few things, not to mention decisions in tight games and or important games.

All in all yes he flashes with elusiveness (if he actually does it). Has great zip when not throwing moon shots. ability to escape is great as long as you dont run 15 yards backwards(which is probably more than 50% of time).

He is perhaps at the moment a fringe top 10 QB

Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Aaron Rodgers, Deshaun Watson, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Matthew Stafford, Dak Prescott
I guess yes maybe at #10 Arguably Dak, Kirk, Stafford, or Cousins can be thrown with Kyler as far as total QB performance. But all those QBs actually throw for far better TD/INT ratios and EVERY SINGLE QB over 4000 yards some 5000 multiple times EXCEPT Kyler.

Herbert has about 9 NFL records he now owns in only 2 years playing.
What about kyler besides Franchise records? No NFL records worth talking about?

Deserving top PAY over get paid as 10th best QB
I gonna have to say get paid as 10th best


i will enjoy seeing diehards that are blinded by our hopium debate this

A couple of points. His height was literally measured at the NFL draft combine. unless you think the entire NFL draft process conspired to lie about his height, 5'10" 1/8, or you think he somehow managed to inflate his height, he's 5'10".

On the throws over the middle being basically non existent, if that's true, literally no QB in the NFL throws over the middle because as has been stated here before, Kyler led the NFL in throws over the middle rating wise. It's been posted here before several times. We all agree that his height at times causes issues throwing over the line, the pick against the Rams that was tipped by Aaron Donald was a perfect example of that, but he's actually very good at throwing over the middle at least statistically he is. You may be confusing him with Jalen Hurts who last time I saw was statistically the worst QB in the NFL over the middle both in rating, and in attempts, he's so bad at it he just doesn't throw over the middle.

yes he has weaknesses, yes he needs to get better at standing in the pocket, nobody here denies any of that.

 

[Russ Smith]

Agree tough to compare but I will take Lomax as a pure passer over KM any day. KM running ability an advantage but if I need a late game drive with little time left I choose Lomax every time.

Oh I loved Neil don't get me wrong just saying at the same stages of their careers, Kyler is better IMO.

After 3 years at 24 years of age these were Lomax's stats

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
1981	22	STL	qb	15	14	7	4-3-0	119	236	50.4	1575	4	1.7	10	4.2	75	6.7	5.1	13.2	112.5	59.9	32	286	11.9	4.81	3.43	0	1	6
1982	23	STL	QB	15	9	9	5-4-0	109	205	53.2	1367	5	2.4	6	2.9	42	6.7	5.8	12.5	151.9	70.1	31	234	13.1	4.80	4.08	1	1	9
1983	24	STL	QB	15	13	13	7-5-1	209	354	59	2636	24	6.8	11	3.1	71	7.4	7.4	12.6	202.8	92.0	43	315	10.8	5.85	5.81	1	1	10

Across the board better by Kyler but again you can't compare across eras, completion %'s are way higher now, as are passing TD's due to rules changes.

But at the same stage, it's pretty hard to argue Kyler wasn't better.

The next year 84 was the best for Lomax, let's hope Kyler has his best year this coming season too.