Let’s Take a Moment to Overreact to Kyler’s IG Page

[kerouac9]

You wanna hear about some other high-profile trade requests? Eli Manning, John Elway, Marshall Faulk, Jerome Bettis, etc. Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul, etc.

We will never get comparable value for Kyler. All you trade Kyler guys are whining like scorned teenage girls because he's probably pissed about our historically incompetent front office lowballing him vs the market and not surrounding him with NFL-level talent and coaching. And like I've repeatedly said - he's a big boy and should do better as we're all not dealt a full house on the flop in life but the kid also has legitimate gripes.

Obviously this is the whole point of negotiations. It seems like a weird way to go about it when the Cards control your rights for at least two years.

Low balling him with a low offer? You have no idea if they even had talks. I very much doubt they have. Why would they?

Because he just became eligible for an extension under the CBA. Until recently, it was against the rules for teams to extend players on their rookie deals until the end of their third season.

It seems weird for Keim and/or Michael not to at least reach out to Kyler and his agent to let them know what the plan was with Kyler's contract as a courtesy.

The funny thing is I’m a murray backer too. But I can admit he’s got bug warts and work to do. I can also see the reality that’s sitting squarely in front of my face.

Burrows: NCAA championship winner & 2nd year in league team in super bowl.

Kyler: worst performances in clutch games and playoffs to date.

Can I interest you in Kyler Murray's high school exploits?

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

Whereas Kyler panics and spins into the pass rush, or just goes fetal and gives up. One can take a hit and make a play, and the other one's too scared. I mean, if it isn't being too scared, why can't KM sit in the pocket and take a hit to make a play?

This is such an exaggeration. Kyler has escaped the pass rush and made amazing plays many times. He was sacked 20 times less than Burrow this season and that's not because his OL is better (it's not). Yes, Kyler sometimes is unable to escape the pass rush and goes down too quickly. Burrow has his warts too, if you have watched him play at all you see him take unnecessary sacks, adjust his line into the wrong protectections, and miss reads. This is just peak recency bias.

 

[Stout]

I dunno.. crazy thought - maybe because Burrows WRs can actually get separation quickly?

Also for every single dramatic description you give above, he avoids several potential sacks a game.

lol We get it. You're not going to hear one single negative thing about KM and will fight tooth and claw against any criticism of his play. Nothing short of a jail-break rush from all angles excuses going fetal. He avoids sacks, yes, which is good, and can use his feet to make plays. No denying that. He also takes more bad sacks than average too. His sacks are also very deep because he's doing the spin thing into the arms of the pass rush often.

 

[DaHilg]

This is such an exaggeration. Kyler has escaped the pass rush and made amazing plays many times. He was sacked 20 times less than Burrow this season and that's not because his OL is better (it's not). Yes, Kyler sometimes is unable to escape the pass rush and goes down too quickly. Burrow has his warts too, if you have watched him play at all you see him take unnecessary sacks, adjust his line into the wrong protectections, and miss reads. This is just peak recency bias.

Also, the best QBs learn to not take hits. Is it a flaw of Kyler losing 10 yards multiple times this season - yes. But I certainly don’t want my franchise QB getting drilled by stepping into What little pocket we have bc of our pathetic interior protection. How’d that work out for Joey B last year?

 

[Stout]

This is such an exaggeration. Kyler has escaped the pass rush and made amazing plays many times. He was sacked 20 times less than Burrow this season and that's not because his OL is better (it's not). Yes, Kyler sometimes is unable to escape the pass rush and goes down too quickly. Burrow has his warts too, if you have watched him play at all you see him take unnecessary sacks, adjust his line into the wrong protectections, and miss reads. This is just peak recency bias.

Well, yes, the Cards line was definitely better. Sorry not sorry to point that out. For all the weapons Burrow has, his OL does him no favors. Guess who else took sacks for holding the ball too long, and had that tendency lead to a lot of big plays? Kurt Warner. Guess who doesn't take sacks for holding the ball and making plays? KM. The moment the pressure comes, his eyes are no longer down the field, and the happy feet kick in. Earlier in the season, and in seasons as a whole, he was scrambling intelligently, but as the season wore on, he became the proverbial chicken with his head cut off.

But, I digress. You're not here to argue facts. You also won't hear anything against KM. Tell me, what negative aspects of his game would you like him to improve upon?

 

[Stout]

Also, the best QBs learn to not take hits. Is it a flaw of Kyler losing 10 yards multiple times this season - yes. But I certainly don’t want my franchise QB getting drilled by stepping into What little pocket we have bc of our pathetic interior protection. How’d that work out for Joey B last year?

I absolutely want my QB to do that in the playoffs, not go fetal. There is absolutely no defense of his playoff game, and little to no defense of his play down the stretch. There were times early in the season where he gave himself up and everyone, myself included, called it smart. But in the playoffs? Nuh uh. Put your body on the line, kid. Don't be Cam.

 

[BritCard]

Obviously this is the whole point of negotiations. It seems like a weird way to go about it when the Cards control your rights for at least two years.



Because he just became eligible for an extension under the CBA. Until recently, it was against the rules for teams to extend players on their rookie deals until the end of their third season.

It seems weird for Keim and/or Michael not to at least reach out to Kyler and his agent to let them know what the plan was with Kyler's contract as a courtesy.


Can I interest you in Kyler Murray's high school exploits?

The 3rd year extension is a rarely used option. As far as I know only 5 players have ever had an extension after year 3 and 3 of them have been mistakes.

Allen, Mahomes, Watson, Goff and Wentz.

I didn't go into this off season expecting Kyler to be extended yet, as Lamar jackson and Baker Mayfield have not been. He simply hasn't done enough to earn it yet.

So why would they say anything? Surely it's better to say nothing than phone his agent and say "Were not going to extend him yet because he hasn't proved himself enough".

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

Well, yes, the Cards line was definitely better. Sorry not sorry to point that out. For all the weapons Burrow has, his OL does him no favors. Guess who else took sacks for holding the ball too long, and had that tendency lead to a lot of big plays? Kurt Warner. Guess who doesn't take sacks for holding the ball and making plays? KM. The moment the pressure comes, his eyes are no longer down the field, and the happy feet kick in. Earlier in the season, and in seasons as a whole, he was scrambling intelligently, but as the season wore on, he became the proverbial chicken with his head cut off.

But, I digress. You're not here to argue facts. You also won't hear anything against KM. Tell me, what negative aspects of his game would you like him to improve upon?

Very ironic that you would accuse me of not being here to discuss facts when you are laying out nothing but false overgeneralizations.

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Maybe start here, watch Kyler Murray play some football. Does Kyler fall down and give up every time he is pressured? Does he run into a sack every time? The things you are saying happen are not the norm, they do happen from time to time, and Burrow makes plays that are just as bad (more often, since he took 20 more sacks).

Negative aspects - Kyler needs to improve his poise, he plays too quickly at times, especially when things are going poorly.

 

[BritCard]

I dunno.. crazy thought - maybe because Burrows WRs can actually get separation quickly?

Also for every single dramatic description you give above, he avoids several potential sacks a game.

You can see separation here and it's not that

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[pemory09]

The all-sports station that carries Texans games was musing this morning about a Murray trade for draft picks, which would then be shipped to Houston for DeShaun Watson. Intriguing. That is, if Watson somehow disentangles himself from the mess in which he’s currently stuck.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Also for every single dramatic description you give above, he avoids several potential sacks a game.

Very true. There was that time he was flagged for intentional grounding from his end zone, so that was a safety and not a sack. Then there was that pick-six from his end zone in the playoff game...also not a sack...

 

[Chopper0080]

There isn't much leverage when the game is as plain as the nose on one's face.

Every little thing adds up. It would be another national story about Kyler wanting a new contract and the Cardinals not giving it to him. It continues to put pressure the Cardinals who do not have a great reputation through the media.

 

[SoonerLou]

Gah. An honest error sir. Mea Culpa, and I've edited my original post.

Nah I thought that was fine. Since I figured you were focusing on when he had Hopkins vs the AFC.

86 passer rating should be fine though I guess Certainly was enough to beat the Chiefs in the AFC championship.

 

[Chopper0080]

And the situation as a whole really doesn't speak much about the Cardinals or Kyler. I am sure Kyler is inclined to let his agent take care of that side of things and probably isn't too concerned with any backlash since the nature of these negotiations is that the agent does these things without their clients knowledge so their client can deny knowledge.

 

[SoonerLou]

Give Kyler - Jamar, Tee, Boyd, Mixon, CJ and Bengals offensive coordinator… bet there are vastly different results in Kyler’s play. Burrow is a stud, but is known for holding onto the ball too long - def vastly increases his sacks.

Btw, fun fact.. Kyler is nearly a year younger than Burrow.

I remember Britcard blaming Joe Burrow for AJ Green's struggles last year. AJ looked like a star at times with Murray before being forced into a #1 job and looking washed again. The very same AJ who would be a 4 with the Bengals.

By the end of the year our Oline was not miles better than the Bengals. We couldnt run the football. At least the Bengals can do that every now and then. Some of Burrow's big pass plays lately have come from teams biting on the run.

Im totally ok with Burrow being better than Murray. He is. There's no need to act like he's Tom Brady yet.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I remember Britcard blaming Joe Burrow for AJ Green's struggles last year. AJ looked like a star at times with Murray before being forced into a #1 job and looking washed again. The very same AJ who would be a 4 with the Bengals.

By the end of the year our Oline was not miles better than the Bengals. We couldnt run the football. At least the Bengals can do that every now and then. Some of Burrow's big pass plays lately have come from teams biting on the run.

Im totally ok with Burrow being better than Murray. He is. There's no need to act like he's Tom Brady yet.

Literally NO ONE IS DOING THAT.

He’s just better than Kyler right now and has accomplished a ton for a guy only in his second year in the league.

 

[kerouac9]

The 3rd year extension is a rarely used option. As far as I know only 5 players have ever had an extension after year 3 and 3 of them have been mistakes.

Allen, Mahomes, Watson, Goff and Wentz.

I didn't go into this off season expecting Kyler to be extended yet, as Lamar jackson and Baker Mayfield have not been. He simply hasn't done enough to earn it yet.

So why would they say anything? Surely it's better to say nothing than phone his agent and say "Were not going to extend him yet because he hasn't proved himself enough".

Patrick Peterson was extended after year 3. Myles Garrett signed an extension. Christian McCaffrey

What are you even talking about? Just because you don't know it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Do a little research, bro.

 

[SoonerLou]

Literally NO ONE IS DOING THAT.

He’s just better than Kyler right now and has accomplished a ton for a guy only in his second year in the league.

We have several people saying there is a huge gap between him and Murray. Thats its all Burrow making the difference. When that simply is not the case.

Tom Brady example for when Brady was getting it done with Wrs who couldnt separate, with a running game that wasnt good, an Oline thats just ok. Brady was capable of getting it done. Burrow is throwing to a top 5 tandem right now. His defense has forced 5 ints the last two games. Given up 13 points in the 2nd halves of the last two playoff games.

Tannehill and Mahomes (2nd half) being dreadful has helped greatly with the Bengals getting to the Super Bowl. Despite his great weapons not many QBs get to the Super Bowl winning games with a 28 QBR.

Edit: We saw Josh Allen absolutely shred that 27th ranked Chiefs defense. Burrow wasnt doing that. He barely completed 60% of his passes. It just seems like its the Bengals/Burrow's year where everything is going there way.

 

[kerouac9]

We have several people saying there is a huge gap between him and Murray. Thats its all Burrow making the difference. When that simply is not the case.

Tom Brady example for when Brady was getting it done with Wrs who couldnt separate, with a running game that wasnt good, an Oline thats just ok. Brady was capable of getting it done. Burrow is throwing to a top 5 tandem right now. His defense has forced 5 ints the last two games. Given up 13 points in the 2nd halves of the last two playoff games.

Tannehill and Mahomes (2nd half) being dreadful has helped greatly with the Bengals getting to the Super Bowl. Despite his great weapons not making QBs get to the Super Bowl winning games with a 28 QBR.

Maybe on the field the gap isn't great (although it's hard to imagine Kyler Murray battling back from a nine-sack game the way Jeaux did). Off the field it's WILDLY different.

Across the board you have people talking about how Jeaux came in and changed the culture. He started running meetings as a rookie, teammates trust and believe in him to lead them back, etc. etc. Kyler Murray almost certainly has more tools than Jeaux, but the gap in leadership is enormous.

Kyler Murray in a two-minute drill is a catastrophe.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We have several people saying there is a huge gap between him and Murray. Thats its all Burrow making the difference. When that simply is not the case.

Tom Brady example for when Brady was getting it done with Wrs who couldnt separate, with a running game that wasnt good, an Oline thats just ok. Brady was capable of getting it done. Burrow is throwing to a top 5 tandem right now. His defense has forced 5 ints the last two games. Given up 13 points in the 2nd halves of the last two playoff games.

Tannehill and Mahomes (2nd half) being dreadful has helped greatly with the Bengals getting to the Super Bowl. Despite his great weapons not making QBs get to the Super Bowl winning games with a 28 QBR.

Again, even saying there’s a huge gap, ISNT SAYING HES TOM BRADY.

do I think there’s a huge gap? Not in ability. But I think there’s a huge gap in terms of toughness, ability to play and make plays in the clutch and there is the factual reality is there is a huge gap between what both players have accomplished as far as post-season success in their careers at both college and pro.

Also, the Team Murray crew keeps talking about Kyler not being as good this year once Hopkins went down and his stats the first 7 weeks as proof he can get right back there... while completely ignoring that he had Hop last season the entire time and down the stretch, he melted down for the first time.

But again, NONE of that says Burrow is Tom Brady. That’s just a flat out false and stupid projection meant to gaslight the conversation.

 

[SoonerLou]

Maybe on the field the gap isn't great (although it's hard to imagine Kyler Murray battling back from a nine-sack game the way Jeaux did). Off the field it's WILDLY different.

Across the board you have people talking about how Jeaux came in and changed the culture. He started running meetings as a rookie, teammates trust and believe in him to lead them back, etc. etc. Kyler Murray almost certainly has more tools than Jeaux, but the gap in leadership is enormous.

Kyler Murray in a two-minute drill is a catastrophe.

Funny. When we had Hopkins we were one of the best 2 minute offenses.

And Burrow seems like a great dude. He might just be a better natural leader. And Burrow was doing all of that and still won just 2 games his rookie year throwing to AJ Green. Higgins getting better and Jamar Chase having the greatest rookie year by a WR helps a great deal.

 

[Russ Smith]

All the media reports on here basically making Kyler look like a spoiled petulant child.

He definitely shouldn't address that with a quick tweet. That seems like something he should just let fester in NFL fans minds...

At what point do people realize how silly this is. Why does Kyler have to deny reports that are complete speculation and conjecture? He hasn't said a thing about his contract or wanting to be traded or anything else.

he deleted all but 2 pics, we have no idea why, why does he have to come out and explain it to stop the media and fans from making up stuff?

I hope it's not a big deal but at this point I'm going to wait and see what happens, I don't see the point of blasting Kyler for not denying complete speculation.

 

[SoonerLou]

Again, even saying there’s a huge gap, ISNT SAYING HES TOM BRADY.

do I think there’s a huge gap? Not in ability. But I think there’s a huge gap in terms of toughness, ability to play and make plays in the clutch and there is the factual reality is there is a huge gap between what both players have accomplished as far as post-season success in their careers at both college and pro.

Also, the Team Murray crew keeps talking about Kyler not being as good this year once Hopkins went down and his stats the first 7 weeks as proof he can get right back there... while completely ignoring that he had Hop last season the entire time and down the stretch, he melted down for the first time.

But again, NONE of that says Burrow is Tom Brady. That’s just a flat out false and stupid projection meant to gaslight the conversation.

Ok, read my post again. Then read this post again

Come on man. I understand you wanting to defend your QB to a degree but let's not twist facts.

The Cardinals finished with a better record than the Bengals even though they had a tougher SOS. They also had almost exactly the same point differential and points scored.

The Bengals aren't a better team. Burrow just played better, especially when the chips were down.

Suddenly the Bengals are in the Super Bowl just because of Burrow?? That is Tom Brady level of credit. Totally negates his weapons and what that defense has done in the 2nd halves of games.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ok, read my post again. Then read this post again

Suddenly the Bengals are in the Super Bowl just because of Burrow?? That is Tom Brady level of credit. Totally negates his weapons and what that defense has done in the 2nd halves of games.

No it’s not. Stop. You’re making yourself just look like someone who can’t admit they said something wrong to try and strengthen their already weak argument.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

Also, the Team Murray crew keeps talking about Kyler not being as good this year once Hopkins went down and his stats the first 7 weeks as proof he can get right back there... while completely ignoring that he had Hop last season the entire time and down the stretch, he melted down for the first time.

Not even Patrick Mahomes himself could avoid a second half collapse from a Kliff Kingsbury coached team.. see: Texas Tech, 2015 - 2016.