Lorenzon Alexander and Jasper Brinkley's contract numbers per Jurecki

[cardpa]

Agreed. I would rather overpay a potential Pro Bowl level S by 2 mil than pay a player who has no chance of getting to a Pro Bowl a market value of under a mil per year.

I want a roster full of talent rather than a roster full of value. In terms of salary, talent costs money. I want to pay that money. I want to be in the position where we have too many top players to pay rather than plenty on money to pay the few top players we have.

Like it or not, Baltimore is in a good position. San Fran is in a good position. Seattle will be in a good position in 2 years. Trying to figure out how to pay all of the talented players you have developed is a great problem to have.

My question is then why hasn't another team snatched up Rhodes and signed him to a contract if he has Pro Bowl potential? We haven't even heard of Rhodes meeting with a team. Could it be we are over estimating the ability of Rhodes. Why hasn't a team like Baltimore signed Rhodes to replace Reed? If I'm not mistaken Rhodes has been on the open market for in excess of two weeks now and to my knowledge hasn't even been sniffed at. If I am wrong please correct me and tell me who has brought Rhodes in.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Agreed. I would rather overpay a potential Pro Bowl level S by 2 mil than pay a player who has no chance of getting to a Pro Bowl a market value of under a mil per year.

I want a roster full of talent rather than a roster full of value. In terms of salary, talent costs money. I want to pay that money. I want to be in the position where we have too many top players to pay rather than plenty on money to pay the few top players we have.

Like it or not, Baltimore is in a good position. San Fran is in a good position. Seattle will be in a good position in 2 years. Trying to figure out how to pay all of the talented players you have developed is a great problem to have.

I'm sure you can think of a few players more deserving of a 1-year $6M dollar deal than Kerry Rhodes.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'm sure you can think of a few players more deserving of a 1-year $6M dollar deal than Kerry Rhodes.

I sure can, but they aren't on the open market or we didn't sign them.

 

[Chopper0080]

My question is then why hasn't another team snatched up Rhodes and signed him to a contract if he has Pro Bowl potential? We haven't even heard of Rhodes meeting with a team. Could it be we are over estimating the ability of Rhodes. Why hasn't a team like Baltimore signed Rhodes to replace Reed? If I'm not mistaken Rhodes has been on the open market for in excess of two weeks now and to my knowledge hasn't even been sniffed at. If I am wrong please correct me and tell me who has brought Rhodes in.

Well, he is a veteran player in a flooded market, a FA in a flat cap year, and a deep S class in the draft. It is not a surprise that he hasn't received many calls but several teams are slow playing the signing period as well. He will probably sign for a 3 mil deal with a team in a couple weeks, which is probably what he is WORTH in this market.

Again, I don't have a problem that the Cardinals cut him. I have a problem that the Cardinals did so and aren't using the money to improve the roster by adding an impact player. By cutting Rhodes and Wells, we could have paid what the Seahawks paid Cliff Avril. Not saying he would have signed here, but hopefully you get my point.

Hell, even John Abraham as a nickel DE is worth 3 mil for a 1 year deal.

 

[Duckjake]

My question is then why hasn't another team snatched up Rhodes and signed him to a contract if he has Pro Bowl potential? We haven't even heard of Rhodes meeting with a team. Could it be we are over estimating the ability of Rhodes. Why hasn't a team like Baltimore signed Rhodes to replace Reed? If I'm not mistaken Rhodes has been on the open market for in excess of two weeks now and to my knowledge hasn't even been sniffed at. If I am wrong please correct me and tell me who has brought Rhodes in.

If not getting offers from other teams is the judge of talent what are the Cards doing hiring a HC that nobody else offered?

I just don't buy into that. If the guys running NFL teams were the geniuses we make them out to be the same teams wouldn't win all the time and a third of the coaches wouldn't be getting fired every year.

Oh well just draft Baccari Rambo and all will be well in the Cardinal secondary.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I sure can, but they aren't on the open market or we didn't sign them.

bingo.

 

[Duckjake]

Oh crud did I just ruin Rambo's chances of a successful NFL career?

He's terrible. Can't cover. Can't tackle. A Georgia goofball.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I sure can, but they aren't on the open market or we didn't sign them.

Well, that evidently includes Rhodes given the interest in his services.

 

[Cardiac]

2 good organizations, and a bunch of teams with either (1) their QB answer solved with a young guy under a crazy-low contract or (2) teams desperately looking for answers.

Eagles, Colts, Pats & Packers are good organizations.

Steelers, maybe the best NFL Organization never spends big in FA. Of course they draft well and I expect that Keim believes in his drafting abilities to start the build your team through the draft and use FA as a last resort.

The Packers are saving up money to (reportedly) extend Aaron Rodgers' insanely underpriced contract. They're not going to be carrying that cap figure into November.

Didn't realize AR was already up for another extension. Their D needs a bunch of help but having AR does make that less of a concern.

If you've established yourself as a good, professional, smart franchise, you're going to get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to cap management and remaining competitive. If you're the Arizona Cardinals or Cleveland Browns or Jacksonville Jaguars, you're going to come under some scrutiny for why you're not spending money to get better.

Fully agree and pretty much wrote the same thing in my post you quoted.

A lot of these teams came into 2013 and discovered that they'd showed up with $50K in cash to buy a car but the dealership was only selling Kias. That's the new face of free agency going forward.

Does this mean the Cards had one of the better plans since they had a list, knew what they would cost and got it done very quickly?

I'll say it again. I understand and actually appreciate the posters who are questioning some of the moves in FA thus far. I will be one of those rioting in the streets if the Cards don't use most of this years CAP by year end.

 

[kerouac9]

Does this mean the Cards had one of the better plans since they had a list, knew what they would cost and got it done very quickly?

I'll say it again. I understand and actually appreciate the posters who are questioning some of the moves in FA thus far. I will be one of those rioting in the streets if the Cards don't use most of this years CAP by year end.

I'd argue with the Eagles and Colts, since the Eagles just turned over their organization and haven't been very good the last two years, and the Colts just paid Greg Toler $15M and have a GM in their second season.

Rodgers has 2 years left on his current deal, but I've read reports that he's next in line to become the highest-paid QB in the land, ahead of Matt Ryan.

I don't know if "having a list" really qualifies you as a smart team. If you signed Antoine Cason for the same money that Sean Smith got, did you make a good deal?

I'm not sure whom you expect the Cards to sign/extend during the 2013 season. Peterson can't be extended until the new league year, and the only Cards FA in 2013 of any value was Andre Roberts.

The Cards deserve criticism not because they're not signing players, IMO. They deserve criticism because they're not only not improving a roster that put up a 5-11 mark last year--they've actively dismantled it.

People can cry "wait until the draft!" all they want, but the Cards were going to have a draft class whether they were upgrading their team in free agency or not.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I'd argue with the Eagles and Colts, since the Eagles just turned over their organization and haven't been very good the last two years, and the Colts just paid Greg Toler $15M and have a GM in their second season.

Rodgers has 2 years left on his current deal, but I've read reports that he's next in line to become the highest-paid QB in the land, ahead of Matt Ryan.

I don't know if "having a list" really qualifies you as a smart team. If you signed Antoine Cason for the same money that Sean Smith got, did you make a good deal?

I'm not sure whom you expect the Cards to sign/extend during the 2013 season. Peterson can't be extended until the new league year, and the only Cards FA in 2013 of any value was Andre Roberts.

The Cards deserve criticism not because they're not signing players, IMO. They deserve criticism because they're not only not improving a roster that put up a 5-11 mark last year--they've actively dismantled it.

People can cry "wait until the draft!" all they want, but the Cards were going to have a draft class whether they were upgrading their team in free agency or not.

We've arguably improved our back up D-ends and we now have a MLB with the size to impact our poor run defence. And, on play to date and cost, I think the two CB's (Powers, Cason) acquired are certainly worth one Toler.

 

[kerouac9]

We've arguably improved our back up D-ends and we now have a MLB with the size to impact our poor run defence. And, on play to date and cost, I think the two CB's (Powers, Cason) acquired are certainly worth one Toler.

Well, I'm going to take the opposite side of your argument on the backup DL and ILB. I think it's charitable to predict that we tread water there--if we thought they'd be upgrades, we would have signed them for more than a year.

I'd add the same thing about Toler/Gay vs. Powers/Cason. Maybe they're a slight upgrade, but they don't discount the large, inarguable downgrade at the safety position.

As I've said many times, the problem with the run defense was structural, not personnel. When you run a 2-4-5 so often, teams are going to have success rushing against it. I'm not really sure how two backup DEs are going to have an effect on the overall-middling (not poor) performance of the run defense, anyway.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Well, I'm going to take the opposite side of your argument on the backup DL and ILB. I think it's charitable to predict that we tread water there--if we thought they'd be upgrades, we would have signed them for more than a year.

I'd add the same thing about Toler/Gay vs. Powers/Cason. Maybe they're a slight upgrade, but they don't discount the large, inarguable downgrade at the safety position.

As I've said many times, the problem with the run defense was structural, not personnel. When you run a 2-4-5 so often, teams are going to have success rushing against it. I'm not really sure how two backup DEs are going to have an effect on the overall-middling (not poor) performance of the run defense, anyway.

I'll gladly trade two 30+ D-ends and a 35 year old MLB for what we picked up and the team can decide who deserves a longer term deal next off-season. We may very much miss Rhodes, but it isn't a given at this point.

 

[Cardiac]

I'd argue with the Eagles and Colts, since the Eagles just turned over their organization and haven't been very good the last two years, and the Colts just paid Greg Toler $15M and have a GM in their second season.

I think the way to judge an organization is by their owners. Lurie and Irsay have a long track record of fielding playoff football teams. Pick a year here or there or a single signing to try and make an argument but it doesn't hold up. Your debater personality is shining through.

Rodgers has 2 years left on his current deal, but I've read reports that he's next in line to become the highest-paid QB in the land, ahead of Matt Ryan.

Smart move by the Packers.

I don't know if "having a list" really qualifies you as a smart team. If you signed Antoine Cason for the same money that Sean Smith got, did you make a good deal?

Well compared to the rest of the teams that thought they would be finding Mercedes Benzes at a KIA dealership I think it makes us at least smarter than most.

I'm not sure whom you expect the Cards to sign/extend during the 2013 season. Peterson can't be extended until the new league year, and the only Cards FA in 2013 of any value was Andre Roberts.

Well several of these one year contract FA's we just signed could prove to be worth an extension so why not see who shines and then extend them. Why can't Peterson be extended?

The Cards deserve criticism not because they're not signing players, IMO. They deserve criticism because they're not only not improving a roster that put up a 5-11 mark last year--they've actively dismantled it.

I don't think the subtraction of Rhodes and Wilson counts as dismantling the team but I get that we very well may have weakened the Safety position.

People can cry "wait until the draft!" all they want, but the Cards were going to have a draft class whether they were upgrading their team in free agency or not.

I'm not crying about anything at this point. I'm concerned that the Safety position is most likely weaker but that's about it at this point. Would have loved to see us sign Dummerville but again not crying yet.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm not crying about anything at this point. I'm concerned that the Safety position is most likely weaker but that's about it at this point. Would have loved to see us sign Dummerville but again not crying yet.

The new CBA stipulates that draft picks can't extend until they've completed their third season, at least.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The Cards deserve criticism not because they're not signing players, IMO. They deserve criticism because they're not only not improving a roster that put up a 5-11 mark last year--they've actively dismantled it.

I think a 5-11 veteran-laden team should be actively dismantled.

I have yet to hear a good reason to justify paying Rhodes $6mill/year. Just because the Cards have cap space doesn't make him worth that kind of money.

 

[kerouac9]

I think a 5-11 veteran-laden team should be actively dismantled.

I have yet to hear a good reason to justify paying Rhodes $6mill/year. Just because the Cards have cap space doesn't make him worth that kind of money.

But should a Top 10 defense and a Top 5 passing defense be actively dismantled because the offense was 32nd in the NFL? Why? Especially when the offense isn't going to be meaningfully improved at the defense's expense.

Because he was the 2nd best player on your secondary, no worse than the 5th best player on your Top 10 defense, and that's the cost to keep him on the roster.

No one's made a case that the secondary and the defense isn't poorer

 

[Duckjake]

I think a 5-11 veteran-laden team should be actively dismantled.

I have yet to hear a good reason to justify paying Rhodes $6mill/year. Just because the Cards have cap space doesn't make him worth that kind of money.

A veteran laden 5-11 team won the NFC Championship just two years later. QB. QB. QB.

Oh and I should add that after the team was dismantled the replacements went 18-30.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

A veteran laden 5-11 team won the NFC Championship just two years later. QB. QB. QB.

Oh and I should add that after the team was dismantled the replacements went 18-30.

Different type of veteran team though. Their best players, DD, Wilson, Rolle, and Dansby were entering their prime. I doubt Rhodes or AW would be contributors next time the Cards make a run and both on the wrong side of 30. Also, I don't see any QB on the horizon that gives me hope. There certainly isn't one on the current roster.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Different type of veteran team though. Their best players, DD, Wilson, Rolle, and Dansby were entering their prime. I doubt Rhodes or AW would be contributors next time the Cards make a run and both on the wrong side of 30.

okay... judging by the criteria above, do you think we're better served cutting Dockett as well?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

But should a Top 10 defense and a Top 5 passing defense be actively dismantled because the offense was 32nd in the NFL? Why? Especially when the offense isn't going to be meaningfully improved at the defense's expense.

Because he was the 2nd best player on your secondary, no worse than the 5th best player on your Top 10 defense, and that's the cost to keep him on the roster.

No one's made a case that the secondary and the defense isn't poorer

I'm not convinced the defense won't be better. I think the CB position has been upgraded. I thought Gay was atrocious and, while Toler was a loss, Powers and Cason, along with the hopeful development of Fleming, is an overall improvement.

Wilson ws already being phased out and Rhodes is not the type of player who is irreplaceable. If Bell and Johnson are the starting safety combo I don't think they will be as good, but with upgrade at CB, I think it will be a wash at worst.

As for the run defense, I think that will be much improved over last year's.

Getting back to Rhodes's salary. If he's not worth 6mill/year, why pay him 6mill/year? That is just bad business and I don't think anybody has said they think Rhodes is worth 6mill/year. If they have, they are wrong.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm not convinced the defense won't be better. I think the CB position has been upgraded. I thought Gay was atrocious and, while Toler was a loss, Powers and Cason, along with the hopeful development of Fleming, is an overall improvement.

Wilson ws already being phased out and Rhodes is not the type of player who is irreplaceable. If Bell and Johnson are the starting safety combo I don't think they will be as good, but with upgrade at CB, I think it will be a wash at worst.

As for the run defense, I think that will be much improved over last year's.

Getting back to Rhodes's salary. If he's not worth 6mill/year, why pay him 6mill/year? That is just bad business and I don't think anybody has said they think Rhodes is worth 6mill/year. If they have, they are wrong.

Wilson was being "phased out" to the tune of participating in 85% of the defensive snaps instead of 99% of the defensive snaps. He played a majority of defensive snaps in the last five or six games of the 2012 season. That story is way overplayed.

Meanwhile, safties (the area where we've unquestionable downgraded) are going to be on the field 90% of the time, while the #3 corner position is going to be on the field maybe half the time. So if we've taken a huge step back at a position that's more important and a marginal improvement at a position that's less important, how are we better off?

Our run defense wasn't that bad last year. T19th in YPA, 0.1 YPA from being among the top half in the NFL. As I've repeated exhaustively, Wilson, Gay, Lenon, Rhodes, and Toler were not the problem with the run defense. The problem with the run defense was putting two down linemen out there in downs, and being in the position where teams were playing against the clock once they got up by 6 points.

Why pay anyone above the minimum salary if you're not going to be competing for a championship this year (trick question: we're hardly paying anyone on the roster that we don't have to under Graves/Whis contracts above minimum salary this year)? Rhodes was worth keeping on the roster--even at an expense of $6M--because he improved the quality of the product on the field.

I'd be interested in paying $55 to see Kerry Rhodes play football (in part). I am not interested in paying $55 to see Yeremiah Bell play football.

It's hilarious to me how many fans are thinking that somehow this defense is going to get better by taking out a handful of established veterans and adding in a bunch of guys the rest of the NFL believed weren't worth better than one-year contracts.

 

[Duckjake]

Question about William Gay. If he was so horrible why did Pittsburgh take him back. They sure know more about defense than Arizona.

 

[Dayman]

Question about William Gay. If he was so horrible why did Pittsburgh take him back. They sure know more about defense than Arizona.

Pittsburgh also traded a draft pick to get McFadden back. It doesn't mean he was a good corner, as evidenced by his current unemployment.

 

[Cardiac]

The new CBA stipulates that draft picks can't extend until they've completed their third season, at least.

Thanks for the info. So the owners trying to protect themselves against themselves?