Lost - Season 5 (Spoilers)

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I am happy to say I figured out it was Locke in a box once they offered to show the pilot what was inside.

 

[Shane]

Best TV show in the history of TV. And its not even close!!! THAT WAS AWESOME!

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Loved the Rose/Bernard stuff, too. "You kids go play with your guns and stuff - we're chillin and happy to have time with each other in paradise."

Definitely think they are the Adam & Eve couple whose bones are in the cave from the earlier seasons.

Yeah, but my wife pointed out that she thinks the bones of those two were wearing Dharma clothing...

 

[Angel]

I imagine they could end up wearing Darma clothing, they did have a supply of Darma (white label brand) food so it is not impossible that they end up scavanging themselves some new duds too.

 

[jf-08]

Is this show still on?

 

[Russ Smith]

Agree great show, too bad we can't time travel now so we don't have to wait for next season.

I figured it was Locke in the box but I wasn't sure. So the guy walking around wasn't locke but Jacob's enemy from the past. I guess the boat they were watching at teh beginning was the black rock?

It's almost like a good/evil thing with Jacob as good and the other guy as the devil?

Loved how they tied in Jacob to everything.

the last season is going to be so jam packed, aside from all the hanging plots from last night they still have to finish walt and "turnip head" both of whom were supposed to be special but we don't know exactly how or why.


i was wrong aobut the bomb, I figured Sayid had actually deactivated it without telling anybody because he wanted to stop Jack but knew he couldn't tell him that. So even with the previews I was surprised when the bomb went off at the end.

Im wondering if the sickness is because of the bomb?

 

[jf-08]

J/k .
Great episode.

Random thoughts:

Didn't Dr. Chang have a fake hand in some of the videos? If so, was that a foreshadow to the steel beams falling on his hand?

Miles is a scene stealer whenever he has a line.

Finding Charlie's ring seemed a bit bizarre.

I thought Sayid's wife was murdered?

How does Jacob move around so freely?

What was Richard's answer to "what lies in the shadow of the statue?" I couldn't decipher what he said, but was Jacob mentioned?

How did Jacob know that "new Locke" wasn't "old Locke"?

What happened to Esau from the time of the Black Rock to 2003?

Seeing Rose and Bernard seemed a bit forced. What did they have to do with the episode and storyline other than "oh yeah, that's what happened to them"?

Why did Locke bring all of the Others with him to Jacob's place?

Boy, Jack sure a great shot with a pistol.

Why did Jacob visit everyone in the past. Basically, he devised his own demise if this holds true.

Man, Kate, Sawyer and Juliet must be real good paddlers to actually beat Jack and company, who were in a speeding van racing to the Swan, to meet them on the road even though they were some distance off shore and then had to navigate to intercept the van.

I love this show.

 

[PDXChris]

J/k .
Great episode.

Random thoughts:

Didn't Dr. Chang have a fake hand in some of the videos? If so, was that a foreshadow to the steel beams falling on his hand?

Good catch. I think you are right.

I thought Sayid's wife was murdered?

IIRC, Ben told him she was murdered. I could be wrong though.

How does Jacob move around so freely?

I don't this it is Jacob. I think the other guy can be anyone like Ben, Jacob and Jack father.

What was Richard's answer to "what lies in the shadow of the statue?" I couldn't decipher what he said, but was Jacob mentioned?

"He who will save us all."

Why did Locke bring all of the Others with him to Jacob's place?

To show them the dead body of Jacob and then make him this slaves? Maybe?

Boy, Jack sure a great shot with a pistol.

"Thought the same thing"

Why did Jacob visit everyone in the past. Basically, he devised his own demise if this holds true.

Evil guy shift changing.

My thoughts.

 

[JS22]

So I'm guessing "black shirt guy" is actually the smoke monster? Does that make sense to anyone else? I'm pretty sure they're taking this in a "light vs dark," "order vs chaos" direction. Jacob, who represents order / good, was wearing white. The other person was wearing black, representing chaos / evil. It looks like they are simply order and chaos in "human" form.

And if you recall in an earlier scene, Ben tries to call the smoke monster. But instead, fake Locke comes walking out.

Fake Locke, (smoke monster?) finally found his loophole. But I still don't really understand what that loophole actually is / was.

I could be totally 100% off base. But that's what makes this show interesting.

 

[green machine]

So I'm guessing "black shirt guy" is actually the smoke monster? Does that make sense to anyone else? I'm pretty sure they're taking this in a "light vs dark," "order vs chaos" direction. Jacob, who represents order / good, was wearing white. The other person was wearing black, representing chaos / evil. It looks like they are simply order and chaos in "human" form.

And if you recall in an earlier scene, Ben tries to call the smoke monster. But instead, fake Locke comes walking out.

Fake Locke, (smoke monster?) finally found his loophole. But I still don't really understand what that loophole actually is / was.

I could be totally 100% off base. But that's what makes this show interesting.

Maybe that only the leader can kill Jacob and, with Locke dead, Ben is back to being the leader by default, even if he doesn't know it.

 

[Shane]

I thought Sayid's wife was murdered?

I think what happened would absolutely qualify as murder.

 

[Covert Rain]

Just my random thoughts.

The guy at the start of the episode (guy not Jacob) is in Locke. He took on Locke's form. That makes sense because we heard "dead is dead". Also, you remember when "fake Locke" also first appears alive? He was looking out in the ocean as if he was enjoying a new experience. Maybe remembering or experiencing what it was like to be in human form?

Ben had never scene Jacob and it's obvious he had no idea where Jacob lived. The cabin IMO is where the other guy lived. I think that what people thought as Jacob in the cabin was in fact not Jacob but the "other guy". I think he was bound somehow to the cabin but when the "Ash" was removed, it allowed him to escape and put his plan in motion. Was it Claire who removed the Ash? Also, notice how Jacob has always appeared as himself. The "other guy" took the form of Locke (as a demon would). He also took on Chrisitian Sheppard, Echos brother. They all had one thing in common...dead bodies on the island.

I think the other guy somehow controls the black smoke monster. Why else would the black smoke monster tell Ben to listen to everything "other guy" says to do? I don't think they are one in the same. However, if they are one in the same then I think maybe the only form he can take is smoke unless he has a dead body.

Whispering - I think the whispering we have heard througout the show is a metaphor for temptation and evil. I think that is also coming from the "other guy". I don't remember a scenario in which the whispering was followed by something positive.

Charlie's guitar and ring mean something. This show doesn't do things like that "just because". I am guessing Charlie is going to play a part in the final season. I am also saying that because I had seen an interview with Dominique where he was talking about his death in both X-men and lost. He made the comment that "dead doesn't mean you stay dead" in these shows. Could he be hinting of this characters return in some form?

The struggle between Jacob and the other guy seem to be around redemption and souls. Could this be an Angel and Demon battling for souls? The other guy mentioned at the start of the episode "things always end the same". Jacob seemed to be determined to prove him wrong. Maybe it's the classic question "is man worth saving?". Jacob is trying to prove the answer is yes.

Last but not least, did you notice that Jacob touched each of the survivors? He made it a point to touch each and every one of them. That means something. My guess is when he tells "fake Locke" they are coming....he was referring to them. They are chosen for some reason. Maybe to end the cycle that appears to have been going on forever. Even fake Locke didn't seem to have an understanding of "they are coming" and what that meant.

 

[TBaslim]

Good stuff, Steel Dog!

I think it is important to remember the main influences / favorite inspirations for the Lost producers: Stephen King (esp the Stand and Dark Tower series) and Star Wars.

All these explore the classical, archetypal themes of good vs evil, free will vs destiny, and redemption vs punishment.

I totally dig how they keep playing with each of these themes throughout the show, like a kid with a cool marble that reflects differently as it turns in the light.

My guess is that they will ultimately come down on the side of good, free will, and redemption (as most popular classical mythology does), but with a heavy dose of counter-balanced evil, predetermination/destiny, and punishment.

In otherwords, not black or white alone, but gray with strong shades of white.

At least, that's what Stephen King would do with the series.

 

[TBaslim]

Another random thought (great finale- been noodling over it all day): Jacob is Baby Aaron. Somehow he comes back to the island and is stuck in a time loop from past to future, ever repeating.

The only problem with this idea is that the Lost producers have indicated that they will no longer mess with time travel elements in the final season. I'm sure they will still do flashbacks/forwards, but it sounded like no more major character time traveling.

 

[jefftheshark]

I'm betting that Gadd hated this episode.

If Locke isn't really Locke, and all the actions Locke took were the result of tricks or subterfuge, then all of his "Faith" was for naught. I would hate to find out that rather than the show being a clever re-telling of the greatest stories of all time (The Iliad, Slaughterhouse-5, etc.), that it really turns out to only be a reset of "Trading Places".

If this is the case, then so much for "Destiny"; because if anything he was the just the victim of a long con that started with his father and basically ended in a "bet" between Mortimer and Randolf Duke.

JTS

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm betting that Gadd hated this episode.

If Locke isn't really Locke, and all the actions Locke took were the result of tricks or subterfuge, then all of his "Faith" was for naught. I would hate to find out that rather than the show being a clever re-telling of the greatest stories of all time (The Iliad, Slaughterhouse-5, etc.), that it really turns out to only be a reset of "Trading Places".

If this is the case, then so much for "Destiny"; because if anything he was the just the victim of a long con that started with his father and basically ended in a "bet" between Mortimer and Randolf Duke.

JTS

Funny but not a legit comparison. Mortimer and Randolf had no interest in the people involved. They were both self serving.

Jacob seems to care and his agenda seems to be about saving mankind or at the very least give those people a shot at redemption. This seems to be good versus evil which is on a different level all together. The point of the contention doesn't appear to be about who is right but more of the evil guy saying "you can't do it"...."you can't save them".

 

[JS22]

Maybe that only the leader can kill Jacob and, with Locke dead, Ben is back to being the leader by default, even if he doesn't know it.

I wonder WHY the leader is the only one that can kill Jacob, though.

 

[Covert Rain]

I wonder WHY the leader is the only one that can kill Jacob, though.

Maybe it is more simple then that. Maybe it's just someone who is mortal. Maybe it didn't matter if the person was the leader. Richard, said that "only the leader" can request an audience. I think maybe that was just a rule so that only the leader of the others ever knew where Jacob was. It would be safer that way.

I think Ben was hand picked because of who he was and what he did. I could be wrong but I don't think it had anything to do with his designation of leader.

 

[chickenhead]

It's funny because in the opening scene, I took it a completely different way. I assumed Jacob was--not necessarily evil--but at least controlling, based on everything we'd been led to believe. And that the other man was somehow in his thrall, and perhaps resented him the same way Ben, Locke, Widmore, Eloise, or any of the other leaders and "others" might. So throughout the epidsode I did not see his appearance in the Losties lives as being benevolent necessarily. It seemed like he was choosing them, but not necessarily blessing them.

I'm not presenting this as an alternative theory, because it seems like a lot of the above posts, and some other things I've read, may be right on. The above is all because I'm used to assuming Jacob is either an evil mastermind or the false prophet of one. Meanwhile the actor playing the man in the black shirt was Adams in Deadwood--a charater who started out on the "wrong" side but ended up having quite a conscience. Not that the two shows have anything to do with each other, just funny how an actor's previous roles can skew one's immediate perceptions.

Anyway, great finale. I thought this season went off the rails a little bit, but this episode definitely put things back onto a path. And through action, not like in Battlestar Galactica, where they answered so many of the big questions of the series in monologue, etc.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Sun found the ring, not Juliet.

I so didn't cry when Juliet died

That's what I meant. Just typed the wrong name.

Juliet's character is/was okay; I was more sad for Sawyer.

 

[JerkFace]

One thing that no one has mentioned is when Richard was called Ricardo. I think that this may be significant. Does anyone remember if they said whether or not the Black Pearl was a Spanish pirate ship?

 

[Jersey Girl]

Last but not least, did you notice that Jacob touched each of the survivors? He made it a point to touch each and every one of them. That means something. My guess is when he tells "fake Locke" they are coming....he was referring to them. They are chosen for some reason. Maybe to end the cycle that appears to have been going on forever. Even fake Locke didn't seem to have an understanding of "they are coming" and what that meant.

Yes, I did notice that. Thought that was interesting, especially when he touched Locke.

 

[Chaplin]

Couple things:

Esau is pretty much the smoke monster, Christian, new Locke, etc. He's the one that has Claire. He needed Ben to kill Jacob because he physically couldn't. That explains also why he didn't care about saving Jack, Sawyer and the others.

I believe the people with the crate carrying Locke's body really aren't Widmore's people. And we know they aren't Ben's people. That leaves only one more thing--they are JACOB'S people. They've come to stop Esau. The question is, is Jacob really dead? I'm not so sure. When he was stabbed and on fire, all I can think about is who did the real Locke see a couple seasons ago in the cabin (when he heard "Help Me")?

And finally, and this is totally a guess, but I don't think there was an explosion at the end. I think it was a time flash. That will make all the Losties in 1977 go forward in time.

 

[JS22]

Couple things:

Esau is pretty much the smoke monster, Christian, new Locke, etc. He's the one that has Claire. He needed Ben to kill Jacob because he physically couldn't. That explains also why he didn't care about saving Jack, Sawyer and the others.

I believe the people with the crate carrying Locke's body really aren't Widmore's people. And we know they aren't Ben's people. That leaves only one more thing--they are JACOB'S people. They've come to stop Esau. The question is, is Jacob really dead? I'm not so sure. When he was stabbed and on fire, all I can think about is who did the real Locke see a couple seasons ago in the cabin (when he heard "Help Me")?

And finally, and this is totally a guess, but I don't think there was an explosion at the end. I think it was a time flash. That will make all the Losties in 1977 go forward in time.

This is what I was thinking last night, but haven't really seen it mentioned anywhere else. It does make sense.

 

[Dback Jon]

One thing that no one has mentioned is when Richard was called Ricardo. I think that this may be significant. Does anyone remember if they said whether or not the Black Pearl was a Spanish pirate ship?

It was ricardus - LATIN.