Lost - Season 5 (Spoilers)

[Chaplin]

It was ricardus - LATIN.

Right, that's what I heard as well. Richard is EXTREMELY old.

 

[Covert Rain]

all I can think about is who did the real Locke see a couple seasons ago in the cabin (when he heard "Help Me")?

And finally, and this is totally a guess, but I don't think there was an explosion at the end. I think it was a time flash. That will make all the Losties in 1977 go forward in time.

I think it was Esau. I think Esau at that time was bound to the cabin probably by Jacob. I also think Claire had something to do with releasing Esau.

I told my wife the same thing. The bomb definitely went off. However, there was a huge white light which could have been the explosion or another leap through time.

Jacob said "they are coming". I think Jacob knew they were leaping to the present time.

 

[TBaslim]

Yup, yup and yup. The last few posts sum up the current theories on the internets about what is what.

Be a long number of months to see if the conclusions are correct. *sigh*

 

[CaptTurbo]

What a mind blowing episode.

I am assuming the alive Locke is the man from when we first met Jacob - what the loophole is, I don't know - maybe he couldn't kill Jacob, but someone else could.

Jacob meeting all the main characters earlier - wow.

.

I think the story was preety clear which is unLOST like.

The alive Locke is the anti-Jacob guy from the beginning.

The loophole is that anyone who comes BACK to the island after leaving can kill Jacob (thats why no one was ever allowed back). Jacob pushed Bens buttons but knew the bomb would wipe everything out. Notice jacob only was seen with the people that were with the bomb? (Sawyer, Jack, the girls)

Now the question is: Is Jacob good and the other guy evil or visa versa?

 

[DWKB]

Two theories borrowed, but I think worth sharing:

The Variable is Hurley.

Since the very beginning of LOST, this has been true. We've never seen it so clearly until now, because we've never really had reason to scrutinize it. But let's examine the evidence for a minute, and then you guys can make your own assumptions. Here's what I'm saying:

* Hurley almost didn't make Flight 815. In fact, the woman at the counter tells him: "I don't think you're supposed to be on this flight, dear".

* When Ben sees Hurley on Ajira 316, he looks him in the eye and tells him: "Hugo, who told you to come?"

* In Left Behind, episode S3.15, Hurley stands on the beach with Sawyer sitting behind him. He then looks out into the ocean, and says "I'm not supposed to be here".

* In Locke's vision where Boone's wheeling him through the airport, Hurley's the only person not getting on the plane. Everyone else is boarding the flight, but Hurley is not a passenger: instead he's stamping tickets at the gate.

* In S1, Hurley knew he wouldn't die on the bridge. He just had a 'feeling' he'd be alright - and he was. At the end of S3 Hurley knew he could get that 30+ year old van to start... and he got it started. He drives the van into Pryce through a hail of gunfire, without ever taking a single bullet.

* Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley all get captured by the Others. But Hurley was the one person they let go.

Hugo has always been lucky: rolling the dice, winning at horseshoes, never missing at basketball, winning the lottery. He eternally makes his own luck... and if this is the case, it stands to reason that he can make his own future. Hugo makes his own kind of music - he's been doing this both on and off the island. He's untouchable, unreachable, and the island can't affect him for a very simple reason: he's not supposed to be here.

Think about Hurley's distractions, too. The island tried to bribe him with a storeroom of food, but Hugo blew it up. It tried to offer him romance, but then his potential girlfriend gets shot. It even tries to get him to kill himself... by using Dave to almost convince Hurley to jump off a cliff. Didn't work.

Outside of the island? Hurley's in a mental institution, where someone is watching over him (because they can't touch him) to make sure he stays put. He gets out anyway. Then he's captured and imprisoned by the police. Somehow he gets out of that, too. No matter what happens, Hurley can't be contained. Hurley can somehow even see Jacob's cabin, because he's not affected by whatever illusions or smokescreens the island puts up.

Even now, it's no coincidence that Hurley's the one voice arguing in favor that things can be changed. He argues with Miles in Whatever Happened Happened, and he's trying to rewrite history with his Empire Strikes Back script. Hurley's seen more ghosts than anyone else. Charlie comes to Hurley as a ghost, telling him "They need you". Who needs him? Everyone else in the story. The Hurley bird is even shrieking his name over and over in the finale. The answer is obvious to me: Hurley's the one person who'll end up changing things.

What's funny is that we've always thought the game changer would come from one of the bigger players: Desmond, Ben, Jack, Locke - but if you think about LOST in general, it makes sense that such changes would come from someone you'd least expect. Hurley is perfect because no one's expecting him to matter. He's done nothing but cook, divide up food, play ping pong, and make everyone else laugh - including us.

Hurley is the island's very big problem because he's the one person who's "not here for a reason". And that's the very reason why he'll end up being so important: WHH can't apply to Hurley, because he was never a part of the plan (timeline?) in the first place.

It's all about Egyptian mythology.

The guy in black at the beginning was the Egyptian God of Evil, Apep.

Jacob is the Egpytian God, Set (or Seth).

Richard Alpert is Ra.

Horas was Horus.

The statue was Taweret.

Smokie (cerebus) is a Djinn.

Set overthrew Apep. Apep thinks people are bad and should all be wiped out. Set thinks people can be redeemed and should be spared. This whole thing was a test between the Gods to determine the fate of humanity. And I think they failed.

Jacob (Set) never was in the cabin. He was always in the shadow of the statue. Apep was trapped in the cabin. The Egyptian God Ash protected Set from Apep. Apep couldn't leave the Ash ring, trapping him in the cabin. When the line was broken, he was freed to cause chaos. He tricked Ben into thinking he was Jacob and didn't let him see him to anger Ben enough to kill the real Jacob. Locke's dead, the zombie Locke is actually Apep (or maybe Smokie). As God of Evil, Apep controls Cerebus, not Jacob. Ben was in fact getting two opposing sets of orders. One from Jacob (via Ra) and one from Apep, via Smokie. So, he was in fact actually a patsy just like Locke.

Also, Set ruled part of Egpyt, while Horus ruled the other half. Horus thought Set was evil and they had a war. Sound familiar?

So, while Locke and Ben were patsies for Apep, Jacob (Set) countered by making Jack his patsy. He anticipated Apep's move and used Jack to "undo" it.

The bomb did change things. They cut an important scene in which Daniel compared time to a river. A small pebble thrown into it would not change the course of the river and it would correct itself. But a large boulder could make a big splash and alter the river. The bomb was to make a big splash. They should have left this in. The bomb changed things.

 

[jf-08]

 

[Gaddabout]

At the risk of telling you something you already know, here's the Biblical reference:

Jacob and Esau were twin sons of Issac and Rebekah. It was prophesied that the older of the twins would serve the younger. Esau came first, followed by Jacob. Esau was the trouble maker, the bad boy. Jacob was the gentle boy, the one who spent all his time hanging out and helping mom.

Jacob, renamed Israel, became father of the twelve tribes of the Israel nation, the last of which being Benjamin. (Incidentally, modern Jews consist of only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin).

Esau, being firstborn, still had the birthright, but he traded it to Jacob in a moment of weakness for a bowl of soup when they were teenagers. When it came time for Isaac to bless Esau with his father's blessing, Rebekah snuck Jacob in instead and tricked Isaac, who was blind.

(Esau also means "hairy." Harry? Ha!)

Esau was bitter and wanted to kill Jacob, but Jacob was sent away. Jacob became the father of Israel, Esau the father of the Edomites, who would become dominated by Israel though they would wage war with them throughout their existence.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Posters: Please feel free to discuss religious undertones of Lost and other TV shows in this forum.

Please do not ridicule or attack religions or belief systems here.

Save that for P&R. Thanks.

 

[Chaplin]

The loophole is that anyone who comes BACK to the island after leaving can kill Jacob (thats why no one was ever allowed back). Jacob pushed Bens buttons but knew the bomb would wipe everything out. Notice jacob only was seen with the people that were with the bomb? (Sawyer, Jack, the girls)

Sorry, but that's not true. Jacob showed up at Sun and Jin's wedding.

 

[Dback Jon]

Sorry, but that's not true. Jacob showed up at Sun and Jin's wedding.

Jin was at the bomb site.

 

[DWKB]

Jacob was not seen in the scene of Juliet as a child.

 

[Louis]

Jin was at the bomb site.

And Sun is the bomb.

 

[Chaplin]

Jin was at the bomb site.

Sun was not.

 

[Chaplin]

Jacob was not seen in the scene of Juliet as a child.

True dat.

 

[Dback Jon]

Sun was not.

And Sun never flashed - so was Jin the target of Jacob?

 

[Dback Jon]

Jacob was not seen in the scene of Juliet as a child.

Thus, she was sacrificed

 

[Chaplin]

To me, it seems that Sun is the wild card. She's the one that is different than every one of the other survivors (except maybe Lapidus, but he doesn't count in that group). Can't wait to see what's in store for her.

 

[bankybruce]

Jacob was not seen in the scene of Juliet as a child.

She was already on the island. If you noticed, he change each persons course. Kate would have been caught stealing, Sayid would have stayed happily married, Hugo would not have gotten on the plane, Jack may have quite his job. Not sure how he altered Sun and Jin's path.

 

[D-Dogg]

Couple things:

Esau is pretty much the smoke monster, Christian, new Locke, etc. He's the one that has Claire. He needed Ben to kill Jacob because he physically couldn't. That explains also why he didn't care about saving Jack, Sawyer and the others.

I believe the people with the crate carrying Locke's body really aren't Widmore's people. And we know they aren't Ben's people. That leaves only one more thing--they are JACOB'S people. They've come to stop Esau. The question is, is Jacob really dead? I'm not so sure. When he was stabbed and on fire, all I can think about is who did the real Locke see a couple seasons ago in the cabin (when he heard "Help Me")?

And finally, and this is totally a guess, but I don't think there was an explosion at the end. I think it was a time flash. That will make all the Losties in 1977 go forward in time.

But Not-Locke didn't know that Smokey had told ben to do whatever Locke said to do. Not-Locke wa surprised at that.

I was fully on board with Esau = Smokey until my wife pointed that scene out.

 

[Russ Smith]

Another random thought (great finale- been noodling over it all day): Jacob is Baby Aaron. Somehow he comes back to the island and is stuck in a time loop from past to future, ever repeating.

The only problem with this idea is that the Lost producers have indicated that they will no longer mess with time travel elements in the final season. I'm sure they will still do flashbacks/forwards, but it sounded like no more major character time traveling.

It would also be the only time that I recall where a character time travelled and didn't keep the same name?

It's an interesting thought though. I really don't like how they just dropped the story lines on walt and Aaron so it would be cool if they tied Aaron back in and explained why he's so important and why she can't let him be raised by someone else(as he currently is first by Kate now by his grandmother).

Walt I'd like to think there's something better in his future than more commercials for bite size pizza snacks.

 

[Bada0Bing]

Best TV show in the history of TV. And its not even close!!! THAT WAS AWESOME!

Wow, what a flippin cliffhanger. I agree man, best story-line of all time.

 

[JerkFace]

But Not-Locke didn't know that Smokey had told ben to do whatever Locke said to do. Not-Locke wa surprised at that.

I was fully on board with Esau = Smokey until my wife pointed that scene out.

Maybe the Not-Lock was just being coy.

 

[D-Dogg]

Maybe the Not-Lock was just being coy.

He seemed genuinely surprised at that.

 

[Gaddabout]

He seemed genuinely surprised at that.

Acting!

 

[thirty-two]

Finally watched season 5 this weekend. WOW. What a cliffhanger. Please tell me that Juliet didnt die and it was a time flash and that she WONT die from her injuries from the fall. I was always wishy washy about her character, but I've grown to like her. I dont necessarily like her and Sawyer together (definitely Sawyer/Kate for me), but I have to say, that last scene was intense. I got a little misty-eyed, I must say.

This really is an awesome show. I wish I had more time to delve into all the different aspects to analyze... but I cant, so thats why I read everyone else's posts! You guys are smart