Lost - The Final Season (Spoilers)

[chickenhead]

No, I didn't--what was the clue?

 

[DeAnna]

I thought Locke's body was used for that smoke monster. That's why he said "sorry you had to see me like this."

I saw the recap but still don't know half of what's going on.

 

[Chaplin]

I thought Locke's body was used for that smoke monster. That's why he said "sorry you had to see me like this."

I saw the recap but still don't know half of what's going on.

I guess you could just call new Locke a shapeshifter. He's not ACTUALLY Locke, he's just adopted an appearance to look like him. Then he turns himself into the smoke monster, then back into new Locke.

 

[chickenhead]

The smoke monster and shapeshifting has always been the part of the show that I don't like. Everything else usually has a more plausible--if fantastic--explanation. But smoke being able to pick up a person, or take the form of a person who can physically intereact with the world. It's just always seemed like too much of a stretch. I'll go with it, but there's much more of a suspension of disbelief.

 

[Gaddabout]

The smoke monster and shapeshifting has always been the part of the show that I don't like. Everything else usually has a more plausible--if fantastic--explanation. But smoke being able to pick up a person, or take the form of a person who can physically intereact with the world. It's just always seemed like too much of a stretch. I'll go with it, but there's much more of a suspension of disbelief.

Pretty obvious they're not trying to sell the hard science of the show and leaning on mythology (Egyptian at this point) to tell a morality tale.

 

[jefftheshark]

I'm somewhat conflicted.

I really like the acting, writing and the story line is nothing if not original and thought-provoking, but.....................

If we are to believe in the multiverse conceit and all the ramifications and outcomes that are possible in an infinite series of possible outcomes, then where is the dramatic tension? If there are storylines where Sawyer and Juliet are together and living happily forever after, sitting right next to a world where they are both dead and also next to one where the dinosaurs were never killed off and Kate is a highly evolved velociraptor, well then why did we put all this effort into being concerned about them at all?

JTS

 

[Gaddabout]

If we are to believe in the multiverse conceit and all the ramifications and outcomes that are possible in an infinite series of possible outcomes, then where is the dramatic tension? If there are storylines where Sawyer and Juliet are together and living happily forever after, sitting right next to a world where they are both dead and also next to one where the dinosaurs were never killed off and Kate is a highly evolved velociraptor, well then why did we put all this effort into being concerned about them at all?

That's the very question the show has been challenging the viewers to watch from the beginning, and every time they lead you one direction they yank you back in another.

It's free will vs. predestination.

Trust me. Whatever you've concluded, you've followed the red herring into a trap.

 

[jefftheshark]

That's the very question the show has been challenging the viewers to watch from the beginning, and every time they lead you one direction they yank you back in another.

It's free will vs. predestination.

Trust me. Whatever you've concluded, you've followed the red herring into a trap.

But it's actually free will and predetermination, it just depends in which universe you currently reside in.

JTS

 

[Gaddabout]

But it's actually free will and predetermination, it just depends in which universe you currently reside in.

Isn't that the rational conclusion? Predetermination is a Christian concept, but determinism is a mathematical one and it shares a lot of the same properties. (I did have to look this one up but I do remember it from physics) ...

Determinism is the view that every event, including human cognition, behavior, decision, and action, is causally determined by an unbroken chain of prior occurrences.[1] Determinists believe the universe is fully governed by causal laws resulting in only one possible state at any point in time. With numerous historical debates, many varieties and philosophical positions on the subject of determinism exist.

I think any person who's spent any large amount of time thinking on it eventually considers it an unsolvable puzzle and settles on a balance between the two. They both have to exist. Only one existing creates an even greater paradox and I already have a headache!

 

[CaptTurbo]

Why was Desmond on the plane with Jack? He was never on the plane he was in the hatch.

 

[devilalum]

Isn't that the rational conclusion? Predetermination is a Christian concept, but determinism is a mathematical one and it shares a lot of the same properties. (I did have to look this one up but I do remember it from physics) ...



I think any person who's spent any large amount of time thinking on it eventually considers it an unsolvable puzzle and settles on a balance between the two. They both have to exist. Only one existing creates an even greater paradox and I already have a headache!

There's an episode where Hugo and the "I hear dead people" guy are talking about this. It was a very "Pass the bong" kind of moment. Very funny.

 

[devilalum]

Why was Desmond on the plane with Jack? He was never on the plane he was in the hatch.

And why WASN'T the blonde girl on the plane? Her brother was next to Locke but she wasn't there?

Shannon?

 

[devilalum]

And why WASN'T the blonde girl on the plane? Her brother was next to Locke but she wasn't there?

Shannon?

It is NOT like the plane never crashed. Its something new.

 

[Gaddabout]

Why was Desmond on the plane with Jack? He was never on the plane he was in the hatch.

Because it's an alternate reality. Something has changed in the past, present, and future. Chaos Theory!

If the island never existed, it changed the fate of the people before they ever got on the plane.

 

[devilalum]

Because it's an alternate reality. Something has changed in the past, present, and future. Chaos Theory!

If the island never existed, it changed the fate of the people before they ever got on the plane.

It existed, it just got nuked in 1977.

 

[bankybruce]

Spoiler

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Contains one curse word

 

[Gaddabout]

hehehe. Made me laugh.

 

[earthsci]

It existed, it just got nuked in 1977.

True but before Desmond ever went on a sailing trip and before Boone and Shannon would have been born (probably).

 

[Gaddabout]

True but before Desmond ever went on a sailing trip and before Boone and Shannon would have been born (probably).

That's the point. The absence of the island and whatever forces calling these people to the island in their timeline changed things.

But notice that things changed on the plane, too. Desmond was there, then he wasn't after Jack saved Charlie. Charlie said, "You shouldn't have done that. I was supposed to die." Jack went back to his seat and Desmond was gone.

 

[devilalum]

That's the point. The absence of the island and whatever forces calling these people to the island in their timeline changed things.

But notice that things changed on the plane, too. Desmond was there, then he wasn't after Jack saved Charlie. Charlie said, "You shouldn't have done that. I was supposed to die." Jack went back to his seat and Desmond was gone.

OK Lostradamus, where's Shannon?

 

[thirty-two]

OK Lostradamus,

LOL

 

[bankybruce]

OK Lostradamus, where's Shannon?

Contract dispute?

 

[DWKB]

Not just that, but Hugo said he's the luckiest guy on Earth instead of being cursed, Sawyer tells Hugo to be careful about his money instead of trying to take advantage of him, Locke claims to have gone on his walkabout, Jack only gets on bottle of alcohol from the flight attendant (not an alcoholic?) and Rose is the one who comforts Jack instead of the other way around.

Of course, Shannon is not on the plane because Boone couldn't get her to come back (another difference).

 

[devilalum]

Not just that, but Hugo said he's the luckiest guy on Earth instead of being cursed, Sawyer tells Hugo to be careful about his money instead of trying to take advantage of him, Locke claims to have gone on his walkabout, Jack only gets on bottle of alcohol from the flight attendant (not an alcoholic?) and Rose is the one who comforts Jack instead of the other way around.

Of course, Shannon is not on the plane because Boone couldn't get her to come back (another difference).

If the island was destroyed in 1977 did they ever have their childhood encounters with Jacob? If not did that change the destiny for each character?

 

[DWKB]

If the island was destroyed in 1977 did they ever have their childhood encounters with Jacob? If not did that change the destiny for each character?

Your guess is as good as mine on that.