Manning Situation Could Vindicate Cardinals

[Mitch]

With concerns about Kevin Kolb's concussions and skittish pocket presence---look for the Cardinals to decide not to pay him his $7M March 17th bonus.

Seeing as the Cardinals are most understandably interested in acquiring Peyton Manning---and seeing as no team in its right mind will offer PM the big bucks until he shows that he has regained his arm strength---the Cardinals will stay in the Manning picture as long as it takes---you may even see the Cardinals sign WR Reggie Wayne in the interim in order to sweeten the allure to Arizona.

Yet---here's the thing---whether PM regains his arm strength well enough to play this year or if and when he does, the Cardinals are unable to sign him---no one is going to fault them for making the decision to wait on Manning.

Without Manning in the picture the Cardinals would face all kinds of media and fan scrutiny for giving up so much for the unproven Kolb for what was a one year rental.

But---no one would question whether a healthy Manning would be worth the money (his and Kolb's), DRC and a #2.

Any team would take that deal as an opportunity in order to vie for a Super Bowl victory.

imho---the Cardinals, in the case where they can't sign Manning, will have another free agent QB in mind---he could even be Charlie Whitehurst, whom the coaches liked before---and while Whitehurst never emerged in Seattle, the Cardinal coaches have a way of believing that in their system a player like Whitehurst could succeed---either as winning the #2 over Richard Bartel (a player the coaches very much like, and feel might be just as talented as Kevin Kolb)---or if given the chance emerge as the starter should Skelton continue to struggle early in games.

I am not saying that I am a fan of Whitehurst. I am simply saying that there is probably a QB out there that the coaches like (a plan B guy if they can't sign Manning)---who wouldn't be expensive and who could offer depth and talent at the position. Dennis Dixon comes to mind as a player the coaches might like as well.

Put it this way: the Cardinals are going to add a veteran QB this year.

 

[az jam]

I think you may be right Mitch on them really going after Manning and dumping Kolb. Here is what Michael Bidwill said in his interview on Friday.

An attempt to ask about the Cards and Peyton Manning went, understandably, nowhere. Manning is under contract with the Colts, so anything said about him at all by a team could be considered tampering. “You want to pay the fine?” Bidwill asked.

– On looking forward: “We have to make the decisions to put us back in the driver’s seat of winning the NFC West,” Bidwill said. “That’s what we did in 2008. Get a home playoff game, and take it from there.”

He obviously isn't going to talk about Manning but the comments on making the decisions to put them back into the playoffs can be very revealing. What other free agent than Peyton Manning would really give them the chance??

 

[imaCafan]

I honestly believe that, IF healthy AND released by Indy, Manning will be a Cardinal, IF the Bidwills don't cheap out and not meet his contract "needs"....money being basically equal PM will choose Cards.....

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Agree with the gist, Mitch, but I believe Plan B is Kolb.

Chances are that Manning will be released before the Combine and the Cards will have plenty of time to digest this new venture.

If it makes sense, then I can imagine a decision not to pay Kolb his $7M bonus in March and promote Skelton as the interim as they await Peyton's return.

If it can't be worked out with Condon, then IMO they stick with Kolb for 2012.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Bidwill, I think, is going to step up an pay Manning. His contract will pay for itself, and then some. They're basically guaranteeing sellouts for as long as he's here plus you have to figure additional revenue for about 3-10 playoff games over a 3-4 year period. Just losing Levi and Kolb's commitment for next year is about enough to pay for Manning. Porter will be gone and Haggans may be gone even though he had a pretty good year.

I think Wayne may want too much money. I guess that depends on how the market plays out. He's not going to be at the top of the WR FA list but he may think he should be.

 

[Buckybird]

I honestly believe that, IF healthy AND released by Indy, Manning will be a Cardinal, IF the Bidwills don't cheap out and not meet his contract "needs"....money being basically equal PM will choose Cards.....

The "IFS" are the exact reason I don't believe it actually happens.

IMO $$$ + Bidwill + injury & an uncertain future doesn't = Manning

 

[imaCafan]

The 2 "IFS" are the exact reason I don't believe it actually happens.

IMO $$$ + Bidwill + injury & an uncertain future doesn't = Manning

That's why the IF'S....but say Payton comes in, Fitz is there, they run him through 30+ drills, he hits Fitz on every 10-50 yard route he runs, then what say you? Of course, if he is here being run through drills = Colts released him.....

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Bidwill, I think, is going to step up an pay Manning. His contract will pay for itself, and then some. They're basically guaranteeing sellouts for as long as he's here plus you have to figure additional revenue for about 3-10 playoff games over a 3-4 year period. Just losing Levi and Kolb's commitment for next year is about enough to pay for Manning. Porter will be gone and Haggans may be gone even though he had a pretty good year.

I think Wayne may want too much money. I guess that depends on how the market plays out. He's not going to be at the top of the WR FA list but he may think he should be.

As it stands, discounting the Levi contract, the Cards are relatively $30M under the CAP, but with some major investments to make: CC; 0-tackles; Marshall(?); no. 2 or 3 W/O; D-line depth; RFA's - and draft.

Subtracting a bit of dead money, dropping Kolb would add about $8M to the 2012 CAP and cutting Stuckey would add an additional $2M.

All of it can be managed, and there is other contract tweaking that can be done... For example: Wilson's $6M in 2012 is all in salary; turn it into a bonus in whole or partially and the FO gets more relief under the CAP.

It all comes down to how much the Bidwill's are willing to invest through their overall football operations budget, which is where the upfront $$$ comes from, to get all of this done.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

As it stands, discounting the Levi contract, the Cards are relatively $30M under the CAP, but with some major investments to make: CC; 0-tackles; Marshall(?); no. 2 or 3 W/O; D-line depth; RFA's - and draft.

Subtracting a bit of dead money, dropping Kolb would add about $8M to the 2012 CAP and cutting Stuckey would add an additional $2M.

All of it can be managed, and there is other contract tweaking that can be done... For example: Wilson's $6M in 2012 is all in salary; turn it into a bonus in whole or partially and the FO gets more relief under the CAP.

It all comes down to how much the Bidwill's are willing to invest through their overall football operations budget, which is where the upfront $$$ comes from, to get all of this done.

Chansi Stuckey is set to make $2M? . That may almost be as bad as Bradley getting $25-30 mill. Geez, there are some bad contracts out there.

 

[imaCafan]

Knowing almost zero about how contracts work, couldn't they sign PM to, say, a 5 year deal with a large signing bonus with smaller salaries up front, making his cap hit smaller? Then we would have more wiggle room for other contracts, right?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Knowing almost zero about how contracts work, couldn't they sign PM to, say, a 5 year deal with a large signing bonus with smaller salaries up front, making his cap hit smaller? Then we would have more wiggle room for other contracts, right?

It's really not about how you combine salary and prorated bonus, as that can be done. It's a question of how much the Cards are willing to guarantee and pay up front.

 

[imaCafan]

I was wondering what it might take? Say 5 years, $35 mil bonus+ salaries?

 

[az jam]

Agree with the gist, Mitch, but I believe Plan B is Kolb.

Chances are that Manning will be released before the Combine and the Cards will have plenty of time to digest this new venture.

If it makes sense, then I can imagine a decision not to pay Kolb his $7M bonus in March and promote Skelton as the interim as they await Peyton's return.

If it can't be worked out with Condon, then IMO they stick with Kolb for 2012.

I agree that Plan B is Kolb. Kolb's contact bonus is due March 17. I think (and hope) by then the Cards should know if they are going to get Manning.
Manning's $28 million bonus is due March 8 and free agency starts March 13.

 

[TJ]

Put it this way. If the Cards do not land Manning, Kolb is the starter in 2012 and wont be adding a veteran QB of consequence (if any at all).

No way this team handcuffs itself to Skelton and Bartel only with a razor thin market of QBs this year.

 

[imaCafan]

I agree that Plan B is Kolb. Kolb's contact bonus is due March 17. I think (and hope) by then the Cards should know if they are going to get Manning.
Manning's $28 million bonus is due March 8 and free agency starts March 13.

Can Kolb's $$$$ be restructured, if he would agree of course to it?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I agree that Plan B is Kolb. Kolb's contact bonus is due March 17. I think (and hope) by then the Cards should know if they are going to get Manning.
Manning's $28 million bonus is due March 8 and free agency starts March 13.

True. But, most of the talking heads are saying that Manning will get his outright release before the Combine later this month. So, at the very least, the Cards would have a few weeks to work out the modalities of an offer.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Can Kolb's $$$$ be restructured, if he would agree of course to it?

No real advantage.

His CAP hit in 2012 is $10M

(March bonus: $7M + prorated signing bonus: $2M + salary: $1M)

 

[az jam]

True. But, most of the talking heads are saying that Manning will get his outright release before the Combine later this month. So, at the very least, the Cards would have a few weeks to work out the modalities of an offer.

Sure hope so, but Colt owner Jim Irsay seems to be playing games.

"I think it probably will go into early March," Irsay said Wednesday in an interview at the JW Marriott. "As the Super Bowl ends and we go into February and get into early March, (Manning) and I will continue to talk about it and see where we're at.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Sure hope so, but Colt owner Jim Irsay seems to be playing games.

"I think it probably will go into early March," Irsay said Wednesday in an interview at the JW Marriott. "As the Super Bowl ends and we go into February and get into early March, (Manning) and I will continue to talk about it and see where we're at.

I think Irsay will want to turn the page before the Combine and Andrew Luck show up in Indy in a few weeks.

 

[imaCafan]

No real advantage.

His CAP hit in 2012 is $10M

(March bonus: $7M + prorated signing bonus: $2M + salary: $1M)

Can the $7mil be converted into signing bonus and prorated?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Can the $7mil be converted into signing bonus and prorated?

I imagine so, but, why carry what could be dead $$$ forward?

As mentioned - the Cards are not short of CAP room to meet 2012 off-season needs.

 

[Phrazbit]

I honestly dont think money would be a big concern unless Manning is expecting like 30 million. Between the money saved by cutting Kolb and the instant boost in tickets and merchandise I would imagine that signing Manning would be a profitable venture even before he steps foot on the grass.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I honestly dont think money would be a big concern unless Manning is expecting like 30 million. Between the money saved by cutting Kolb and the instant boost in tickets and merchandise I would imagine that signing Manning would be a profitable venture even before he steps foot on the grass.

If the Cards cut Kolb before his March roster bonus this one year experience will have cost the Bidwill's $12M. And the additional $51M they were prepared to pay Kolb over the length of his deal can be dedicated to whatever arrangement is reached with Condon/Manning.

 

[Phrazbit]

If the Cards cut Kolb before his March roster bonus this one year experience will have cost the Bidwill's $12M. And the additional $51M they were prepared to pay Kolb over the length of his deal can be dedicated to whatever arrangement is reached with Condon/Manning.

I believe they would still owe Kolb 2 million per year for the next four years (reaching his 21 mil guarantee). But still, financially its a no brainer unless Manning is expecting 25-30 million a year.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I believe they would still owe Kolb 2 million per year for the next four years (reaching his 21 mil guarantee). But still, financially its a no brainer unless Manning is expecting 25-30 million a year.

The actual guarantee is the $10M signing bonus. The others are roster type "contingent" bonus guarantees if one is still with the team. If he doesn't get his roster bonus in March he's a FA and he will have received a $10M bonus + $2M in salary for 2011. The signing bonus is prorated as dead CAP money at $2M per year through to 2016.