Matt leinart draft prediction

[Southpaw]

Matt Leinhart could be the second coming of Heath Shuler.

 

[ajcardfan]

Matt Leinhart could be the second coming of Heath Shuler.

Or, the second coming of Peyton Manning.

We just don't know for sure. Isn't the draft exciting!

 

[Russ Smith]

To me, the question comes down to: Given his profile, does Leinert project more as a Joe Montana or as a Cade McNown? Answer: "We'll see."

.[/color]

Well he won't be Cade McNown, he didn't fail just because he had a weak arm he failed because he was a complete jerk and massively immature and didn't understand what it took to be an NFL QB. His own teammates were throwing him under the bus midway through his rookie year because they didn't think he worked hard.

Leinart is much smarter and will work his butt off. Doesn't have a great arm but he won't fail for lack of effort.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

Oh Ok two NFL QB busts, its now destined that every future QB will be own also. After being the worst franchise of all time, you would think we would for once get tired of the old ways.




Why are you worried about Young or Lienart? They wont be there at ten. I have already stated that I would like a young stud quarterback here. Do I like Leinart? Yes . Do I like Young? Yes. Do I want to trade next years number one pick in order to move up? nope. My only problem with ur post was that you practically guaranteed everybody that Young or Leinart would not bust in the NFL. You did not have to get smart with me.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

You don't think there is any chance possible he believed McCown might have QB potential then. I would still have taken Fitz over Ben. Knowing now what I do, But thats just me. Ben's a 6-10 winner here. Fitz was the BPA.

Many scouts whispered Sean Taylor as the best player in that draft.

 

[Russ Smith]

Many scouts whispered Sean Taylor as the best player in that draft.

Best defensive player. He probably was that year, but unfortunately he's had all the off field problems.

But he's made a huge impact on that defense.

 

[moklerman]

Moklerman, throwing out Toretta, or other weak QB's on great teams is kind of irrelevant. Toretta and Dorsey were in the same boat and guess what, even in college, while they were winning all those games, NFL people and scouts were ROUTINELY saying they are not good NFL prospects.

I don't think it's irrelevent because I don't buy into the hype machine that today's draft has that wasn't there when Toretta played. With the advent of the internet and multitude of media outlets that are available now you can find any opinion you want about any player. I'm critical of Leinart because of what I've seen him do this year and tried to use a guy in a similar situation in the past to illustrate the point. But, just like most arguments on message boards, a point can't be made because people want to argue non-factors to try and debunk or stray from the point. My memory of Toretta was flawed. The point is, he's one of many successful, Heisman winning qb's that were on successful teams whose ability didn't translate into success in the NFL and more importantly, justify a early round pick and lot's of money.

There's always going to be something. Trying to be creative and less obvious by choosing Torretta was my mistake. I thought it would help illustrate what I was saying but I agree, he's more of a Jason White type of player. Both those guys prove my point to a degree, but since "experts" hadn't gushed over them some will just dismiss the point altogether. Two more examples that I think are more contemporary and fit well are Ryan Leaf and Aaron Rodgers. I won't go into too many details but Rodgers(sp?) is a great example to me. I'd heard all these great things about how good he was. Cal was highly ranked last year and in the Holiday Bowl vs. Texas Tech. AR had impressive numbers, I think made it to the Heisman finals and was considered by many as the best qb available in the draft. Then I saw him play against TT. I guess all the "experts" up to that point must have been Cal boosters.
[QUOTE](You live by the sword, you die by the sword).[/QUOTE]Hey, I enjoy a good discussion and I don't mind being proven wrong. Of course, when "you're stupid Brenda, Warner sucks" is the argument...

Sorry, I don't read your posts. I skim them. You kill your credibility when you start claiming Gino Torretta was a southpaw and had a 34 game winning streak. It's called Google....do a little research. You just look like you are making stuff up.

Hmmm, do ton's of research, work up elaborate scenarios and comparisons for someone who's going to "skim" and miss the point anyway. But, since you're right, I had to look it up. I was confusing the "92" Hurricanes and the "02" Hurricanes. He won a national championship but wasn't part of a 34 game streak (I never said he won 34 in a row, I just thought that a couple of teams he played for must have been in the 34 streak if it happened in 92). When they flashed the alltime streaks during the Rose Bowl I thought it said Miami had 34 in 92. No excuse, that's just where it came from.

And, he claimed Leinart started for two years, not three. Stupid mistakes like that make people think you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I also said that I hadn't started watching Leinart until after he won the Heisman last year. Profootballreference.com shows Palmer's career as 2004 & 2005 with the Bengals (apparently they don't show a player on the roster until he actually get's on the field). Was the point I was making really about how many years he'd been starting anyway?

Matt Leinhart could be the second coming of Heath Shuler.

Thank you.

Leinart is much smarter and will work his butt off. Doesn't have a great arm but he won't fail for lack of effort.

I think I can understand why you're saying that, but what is it based on? I've heard that he took interpretive dance and nothing else academically this year at USC but haven't heard about his work ethic in regards to football. I don't have anything other than a feeling, but I get the sense that he's got BMOC disease and is starting to tickle thoughts of Ryan Leaf with his post game lack of composure at the Rose Bowl. I've see at least a few pictures of him partying with co-ed's and drinking. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But, it doesn't bring to mind images of Peyton Manning sleeping with his playbook.

Oh Ok two NFL QB busts, its now destined that every future QB will be own also. After being the worst franchise of all time, you would think we would for once get tired of the old ways.

How many first round qb's did it take the Bengals before they got one that wasn't a bust?

Many scouts whispered Sean Taylor as the best player in that draft.

Taylor's looked pretty darned good the couple of times I've seen him. I'd still take a class act like Fitz over a potential thug like Taylor. Not to mention a great wr is worth more than a good/great db in my opinion.

 

[Russ Smith]

Two more examples that I think are more contemporary and fit well are Ryan Leaf and Aaron Rodgers. I won't go into too many details but Rodgers(sp?) is a great example to me. I'd heard all these great things about how good he was. Cal was highly ranked last year and in the Holiday Bowl vs. Texas Tech. AR had impressive numbers, I think made it to the Heisman finals and was considered by many as the best qb available in the draft. Then I saw him play against TT. I guess all the "experts" up to that point must have been Cal boosters.
.

I live in the Bay area and follow Cal a lot closer than anybody else on this board. If the only Cal game you saw last year was TT, then yes you would think Rodgers was overrated.

What you don't know is why, Rodgers went into that game without essentially his top 2 Wr's Geoff MacArthur and Chase Lyman, and the #3WR Makkonen was in his first game back after missing something like 6 games with injury. He caught 8 passes in that game 15 the whole year. The starting WR's in that game were Makkonen and Robert Jordan. Jordan was a true freshman
who hadn't played virtually at all the first half of the year but was forced to play due to all the injuries. So Cal burned his redshirt year and played him as a true freshman. Played in 8 games(3 special teams only), started 5. Cal's WR's were so depleted that game they actually had Marshawn Lynch(freshman RB at the time) practicing at WR all week and he lined up at WR at times in that game.

THe WR's were so inexperienced, and Makkonen so rusty, that they essentially scaled back the offense. It's a timing based passing offense but you can only run that if you trust your WR's to run the right route and be where they're supposed to be. Tedford didn't trust them so they went dink and dunk. That's how a QB guru with a Heisman candidate QB winds up having the nations leading rusher in the backfield, had to go to Plan B when all the WR's got hurt.

Not saying Rodgers is going to the HOF or anything but if you know the background of that game, you understand why the offense looked the way it did. Put Rodgers on Cal this year and they probably lose one game all year, to USC.

Rodgers numbers weren't all that great at Cal either year, he only started 8 games his first year, and his 2nd year they were a running team because of all teh WR injuries. Of course he is the last guy not named Vince Young to beat USC.

Give him time and he'll be just fine in Green Bay. But he'll be under a hell of a lot of pressure replacing Favre if he does indeed retire.

 

[Southpaw]

My 2 cents is somewhere in thwe middle of this discussion.

Leinart is on a team with very good receivers, very good offensive line, 2 very good RBs and in a defensive non existent conference. I don't know how to determine if Leinert is a good QB on a very good team or a great QB on a very good team. Some QBs carry their team a la Jay Cutler, Brett Brohm, Charlie Whitehurst, D J Shockley, Vince Young. They are obvious talents but that is no guarantee on the NFL level either. If Matty threw the ball on a rope or knocked receivers down there would be very little doubt, if any, but that doesn't happen with him. So some team will take an early shot and end up with a dud or an NFL QB. I wouldn't want to be the GM that has to make that decision.

 

[moklerman]

I live in the Bay area and follow Cal a lot closer than anybody else on this board. If the only Cal game you saw last year was TT, then yes you would think Rodgers was overrated.

I agree with your post and was aware of the wr injuries. My impressions, I forgot that I watched 2004 Cal/USC game on t.v. too (where Rodgers completed an obscene number of passes consecutively), since I got to go to the game, were a lot of the little things. Basically, the way he handled the adversity of not having optimum conditions. He unravelled to the point of almost being a liability.

That's basically what I've seen from Leinart. The little things that I think give a qb potential, Leinart hasn't been exhibiting. I don't get much out of a guy who throws for 300+ yards when there was 1100+ yards of offense between the two teams. That's called "no defense". Leinart's demeanor and execution at cruical points of the game were very poor in my opinion.

 

[AZCB34]

I think Jay Cutler is better than Leinart and Young.

 

[AZCB34]

Well he won't be Cade McNown, he didn't fail just because he had a weak arm he failed because he was a complete jerk and massively immature and didn't understand what it took to be an NFL QB. His own teammates were throwing him under the bus midway through his rookie year because they didn't think he worked hard.

Leinart is much smarter and will work his butt off. Doesn't have a great arm but he won't fail for lack of effort.

Good Ol' Cade. Brings back many memories.

Good Times

 

[Russ Smith]

I agree with your post and was aware of the wr injuries. My impressions, I forgot that I watched 2004 Cal/USC game on t.v. too (where Rodgers completed an obscene number of passes consecutively), since I got to go to the game, were a lot of the little things. Basically, the way he handled the adversity of not having optimum conditions. He unravelled to the point of almost being a liability.

That's basically what I've seen from Leinart. The little things that I think give a qb potential, Leinart hasn't been exhibiting. I don't get much out of a guy who throws for 300+ yards when there was 1100+ yards of offense between the two teams. That's called "no defense". Leinart's demeanor and execution at cruical points of the game were very poor in my opinion.

Unravelled? Rodgers went 24-42 246 with 1 TD, 1 rushing TD, and 1 INT. The INT was a pass where the wr fell down after Rodgers threw the ball over the middle, it was picked and returned 40+ yards. Tech scored a TD a few plays later. It was a perfect example of why Cal had scaled back their offense, if you can't trust the Wr to be there, you can't run a timing offense.

Texas Tech just killed Cal's defense and eventually Rodgers HAD to go to the air. When your defense allows 520 passing yards it's kind of hard to blame the QB for the loss. I do recall Rodgers being very frustrated but again, that was for a simple reason, the WR inexperience. He basically had one receiver he trusted, his TE Garrett Cross.

Texas is a very good defensive team and in particular a good pass defense. If you are saying Leinart didn't light up an NFL caliber defense, I agree, but NFL teams can't play in the Rose Bowl. Texas has a BUNCH of guys who will play in the NFL, Huff, Wright, Okam, both Griffins, Dibble, Harris(move to Safety), Robison, Crowder. They are loaded on defense. If you consider that a weak defense we may as well just agree to disagree. They aren't as good as the Miami D a few years ago but they are awfully good.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think I can understand why you're saying that, but what is it based on? I've heard that he took interpretive dance and nothing else academically this year at USC but haven't heard about his work ethic in regards to football. I don't have anything other than a feeling, but I get the sense that he's got BMOC disease and is starting to tickle thoughts of Ryan Leaf with his post game lack of composure at the Rose Bowl. I've see at least a few pictures of him partying with co-ed's and drinking. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But, it doesn't bring to mind images of Peyton Manning sleeping with his playbook.
.

If Manning is the standard then every NFL QB is lazy.

Leinart was a 5th year senior this year, he took ballroom dance because it was the only class he needed to get his degree. Remember this is USC basically being within 1000 feet of campus during class gets you credit.

Leinart is the smartest QB around. Norm Chow has said several times that Leinart worked as hard as any kid he'd ever coached, and was as smart as any of them. He said he picked up the system faster than Palmer did. Last year when people started calling Leinart a beach bum it was quite common for Chow to come out and say that perception of him is NOT accurate with regards to football, he's as hard a worker as we have.

Off the field yes he's a kid who enjoyed his status as QB at the #1team in a city full of hot women. He dated Alyssa Milano, had groupies, if you think that's not going on at most top football schools you'd be surprised. Yes I'm sure he does drink, again most of these kids do, hell most kids in junior high do these days.

McNown was just on another level of jerkdom. Raised in Hollister, CA, moved to ORegon senior year of HS. At UCLA he several times referred to how he hated Hollister, it was a hick town, a cowtown, everyone there was jealous of him, called people inbred etc. At UCLA he was a good player who was notorious for being a jerk, if you remember the infamous lets get fake handicapped parking placards and park there scandal among UCLA football players, guess who was the ringleader? McNown not only started it, he ratted out teammates after being caught and then publicly said he didn't understand people making a big deal of it.


When he came out that year people here were saying we should look at that guy and I screamed NO, whoever drafts that guy will regret it.

 

[joeshmo]

I think Jay Cutler is better than Leinart and Young.

Your opinion doesnt count unless you have seen him play at least 6 times.

 

[moklerman]

Texas is a very good defensive team and in particular a good pass defense.

They may have a good ranking but do you actually think there was anything resembling defense being played in the Rose Bowl? By either team? Both offenses move the ball at will for most of the game. There were a few defensive stands, but I think it was more bend and don't break in those circumstances. 1100+ yards of offense and 70+ points combined.

Unravelled? Rodgers went 24-42 246 with 1 TD, 1 rushing TD, and 1 INT.

Yeah, I think so. I'm sure a lot of it had to do with frustration but if that's how he handled it during that game (a meaningless bowl exhibition) then it doesn't bode well for the most important thing an NFL qb has over all of the college athletes-mental toughness. His statline isn't horrible and I didn't say he was a liability, but he was responsible for his fair share of bad decisions and bad throws that day. He didn't lose his wr's in that game either, they had time to work with whoever was available up to the game. Rodgers looked efficient in his mop up duty for the Packers a couple of weeks ago so he may yet turn into a decent qb. The point is, he wasn't as good as the hype and I think Leinart's the same in that regard.

Leinart is the smartest QB around.

Now that's a bold statement. You mention the accusations of him being a beach bum. Now, I don't know, but is it possible these accounts are possible? I mean, you wouldn't expect Chow to pile on in that situation would you? Leinart's probably as devoted as any qb so I'm not really worried about his ability in that regard but the fact that his dedication and habits have been questioned before, his ridiculous class selection his final year, his apparent enjoyment in being a celebrity, his loss of composure and statements after the Rose Bowl all bring the thought(s) to mind about his dedication and desire. It isn't definitive, but where there's smoke, there sometimes is fire.

As far as McNown, yes he was a crumb of the highest level. He's barely managed to stay 2nd behind Ryan Leaf in terms of dubious actions which is saying a lot.

Leinart's showing signs of being a prima donna though and I don't think the guy's going to be able to back it all up with his onfield performance in the NFL. I definitely wouldn't throw money at him when there are legitimate doubts about him.

 

[moklerman]

Your opinion doesnt count unless you have seen him play at least 6 times.

I thought if you've never seen him play you had a good opinion?

 

[Russ Smith]

No offense but when you realize how many guys on USC and Texas are going to get drafted and play on Sundays at some point you start to think, maybe all those points and yards were because they are very good offenses? Both teams average 50 points per game, they held each other down in that regard. I mean I watched FSU and Penn State and the score was lower but do I think it was great defense or just lousy offense? I'm inclined to think half and half. USC and TExas were the 2 best offensive teams in the country, I fully expected a lot of points. I think I read the over under was 79 points!

Leinart is very smart in terms of football. He is a Southern California kid, I'm sure he likes the beach, I know he likes hot women with big boobs and quite frankly that doesn't concern me, if I were 22 and in that situation i'm inclined to think I'd bang Alyssa Milano too.

He's not a primadonna his teammates loved him. They often talk about how calm he is in the huddle. Yes he had an ideal situation, great OL, great WR's, great RB's, but he handled it quite well. Mentally he's as ready as any NFL QB coming in since Manning IMHO.

I guess we'll have to see, odds are he's going early and making a lot of money. I just hope he holds up physically, I've seen that not all there look on his face too many times this year to not be concerned he's got some sort of issue with concussions.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

I thought if you've never seen him play you had a good opinion?

I guess with that line of thinking I have no right to think that Jim Brown was a great running back. Since I've never seen him play he might be no better than Roger Robinson.

 

[Russ Smith]

I guess with that line of thinking I have no right to think that Jim Brown was a great running back. Since I've never seen him play he might be no better than Roger Robinson.

Come on the guys in his 60's, he can't be as good as Robinson.

 

[Pariah]

Come on the guys in his 60's, he can't be as good as Robinson.

Even in his 60's he's somewhere between M. Shipp and R. Robinson. Kiper took a bribe from his agent and know it's gospel.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

Come on the guys in his 60's, he can't be as good as Robinson.

Even in his 60s I'd be willing to bet the guy can at least scrape out 3 ypc and find the end zone once in awhile.

 

[Russ Smith]

Even in his 60s I'd be willing to bet the guy can at least scrape out 3 ypc and find the end zone once in awhile.

If he wasn't advising Clarett a couple of years ago I'd believe that.

 

[kerouac9]

Leinart is very smart in terms of football. He is a Southern California kid, I'm sure he likes the beach, I know he likes hot women with big boobs and quite frankly that doesn't concern me, if I were 22 and in that situation i'm inclined to think I'd bang Alyssa Milano too.

This is such a great paragraph I'm tempted to fall into the "Trade the Draft For Matt Leinart" Camp. Just so that I can see more of these paragraphs for the next 4-15 years.

As for LV's comment earlier on this thread, no one thinks that Michael Vick doesn't have an arm. He's not accurate, and his footwork's bad, but he's got maybe the strongest arm in the NFL. He can run and he can pass and he wins games by being the fastest player on either sideline in 90% of the games he plays. Vince Young is not Michael Vick fast. He doesn't have a Vick/Culpepper/McNabb/McNair/George arm. He seems to have an arm in between Brad Johnson and Tom Brady. But Young hasn't played in an NFL-caliber offense, and that scares the heck out of me if I'm drafting him in the Top 5. What scares me even more is that everyone said that Young got better after the coaches stopped trying to coach him. Raw talent will get you really, really far in the college ranks. It can get you a national championship. But if you can't be coached, or aren't as good if you're being coached, you're dead in the League. That's how it is.

 

[Russ Smith]

This is such a great paragraph I'm tempted to fall into the "Trade the Draft For Matt Leinart" Camp. Just so that I can see more of these paragraphs for the next 4-15 years.

As for LV's comment earlier on this thread, no one thinks that Michael Vick doesn't have an arm. He's not accurate, and his footwork's bad, but he's got maybe the strongest arm in the NFL. He can run and he can pass and he wins games by being the fastest player on either sideline in 90% of the games he plays. Vince Young is not Michael Vick fast. He doesn't have a Vick/Culpepper/McNabb/McNair/George arm. He seems to have an arm in between Brad Johnson and Tom Brady. But Young hasn't played in an NFL-caliber offense, and that scares the heck out of me if I'm drafting him in the Top 5. What scares me even more is that everyone said that Young got better after the coaches stopped trying to coach him. Raw talent will get you really, really far in the college ranks. It can get you a national championship. But if you can't be coached, or aren't as good if you're being coached, you're dead in the League. That's how it is.

Maybe he just meant Mack Brown is a lousy coach?


The big deal for him is as Aj said during the Rose bowl thread, this is a guy who takes every snap from the shotgun, he's in an even simpler offense than the one Alex Smith had at Utah. The 49ers spent months teaching Smith how to take a 3 step drop, 7 step drop, how to turn his back on the defense and all those things most QB's already know when they come in, Young will be even further behind in that regard than Smith.

I think Young is a lot tougher and confident than Smith is, but he has run an incredibly simple offense in college. But he sure ran it damn well.