McCoy the guy?

[wa52lz]

McCoy developed UDFA Matt Moore, who is now 10yrs into a a nice career as a top back up. 15-15 as a starter, 60% comp rate, 46tds to 36 ints. He also somehow developed Tim Tebow in to a winning QB. He had one season with Osewelier, who had a total of 4 attempts that year.

Since 2004 when McCoy became QB Coach in Carolina here are the QBs his teams Drafted other then Tebow and Osewelier
2005 4th rnd Stefan Lefors
2009 6th rnd Tom Brandstrater
2013 7th rnd Brad Sorensen.

Also in 2006 Carolina had UDFA Brett Basanez on their roster.

That's it for young QBs he has had the opportunity to work with. Who exactly was he supposed to develop?

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[WildBB]

I miss a lot of the old school humor. I think the board went belly up in that regard when Section 11 faded out . . .

Older, wiser, grumpier....but still want to raise a Lombardi!

 

[WildBB]

McCoy developed UDFA Matt Moore, who is now 10yrs into a a nice career as a top back up. 15-15 as a starter, 60% comp rate, 46tds to 36 ints. He also somehow developed Tim Tebow in to a winning QB. He had one season with Osewelier, who had a total of 4 attempts that year.

Since 2004 when McCoy became QB Coach in Carolina here are the QBs his teams Drafted other then Tebow and Osewelier
2005 4th rnd Stefan Lefors
2009 6th rnd Tom Brandstrater
2013 7th rnd Brad Sorensen.

Also in 2006 Carolina had UDFA Brett Basanez on their roster.

That's it for young QBs he has had the opportunity to work with. Who exactly was he supposed to develop?

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Exactly! Lets hope we give the guy someone with true high upside to work with and some time to develop.

 

[oaken1]

I retired in riverside county (SoCal) recently. Spent 30 years in the valley before heading further west. I had considered following LAC ot LARams but BA kept my interest. With BA following my lead, I figured perfect time to move on. With all the uncertainty no way I miss this.

Back in the 90s the off-season was far more entertaining than the regular season.

This board contributes to the entertainment big time. Timely News, mainly well thought out speculation, great game breakdowns/analysis, passionate frustration and a bit of humor. I’m good with a bit of old school crazy...

HA! I used to love the regular friday night PWI threads, lots of good fun in there.

there are seasons, that, due to life I have zero interest in football... but I still come here.

like you said, passionate, knowledgeable, frustrating... and I will add therapeutic. There are some guys in here I love to read, others I love to argue with... and many more who have swayed my opinions and never knew it, lol.

Its always good fun around here but this stands to be a completely legendary off season as far as strokes go...signing Cousins for $28mil a year will cause many to have heart attacks, trading a second for alex smith would give me a stroke..and pretty sure trading next years 1 and 2 along with this years 1 and 4 in order to move up and pick a guy will cause Solar to pop an aneurysm... who wouldnt enjoy watching all that?

and then just wait until pre season when our new QB throws 3 picks in his first 10 passes to Denvers scrubs...

and if we start next season 0-4...oh yeah, lmao

 

[BullheadCardFan]

and if we start next season 0-4...oh yeah, lmao

Which is very possible being that McCoy has a difficult system to learn. The D will have to carry the team early as we wait for the O to catch up.

 

[Garthshort]

Two things:
1. The team must have read Gandhi's case for McCoy.
2. Looking at McCoy's history, it seems to me that a good QB/RB is more important than a good OC.

 

[sunsfan88]

Mike McCoy sucks. You guys thought you hated Bevell? Wait till McCoy then.

Us Chargers fans threw a party at a forum meet up in SoCal when McCoy was fired. We wanted to throw a ******** parade when news broke that our hated divison rivals hired McCoy as the OC of the Broncos!!

Broncos fans are lucky, they only had to experience the demise of Mike McCoy for 1 year while us Chargers fans endured it for 4+ years!!

Cardinals have such pathetic leadership at the top of the organization if their gonna waste Fitzgerald’s last years and Davis Johnson’s prime years with this clown of an OC.

Better hope some sense gets knocked into them and Cardinals look elsewhere for an OC.

 

[sunsfan88]

People seriously ******** on McCoy because he isn't DiFilippo and are completely overlooking what he HAS done at his career stops.

1. Squeezed career years out of Jake Delhomme and Kyle freaking Orton
2. When he was handed Tebow, he turned the **** popsicle into the best rushing offense in the league and beat the steelers in the playoffs.
3. Adjusted Broncos offense yet again when a noodle-armed manning replaced Tebow.

While it is true he hasn't developed a rookie QB into a stud, what he HAS done in his career as an offensive coordinator is take what he is given and make the offense put up points. A team in transition like the Cardinals needs that specific skillset, especially if we end up with a bridge QB for a couple years.

Remember, he may not be asked to develop a QB, as that will be the job of the QB coach. What he will be asked to do is take what we have on offense and who we acquire in the offseason and turn it into an offense that is good enough to win games and put up points alongside what will undoubtedly be a very good defense. So sure, he isn't the young flavor of the week everyone is fawning over, but for what the team needs right now to "retool" and win games, he is a good fit.

It’s ****** hilarious that Mike McCoy’s career highlight is STILL what he did with Tim Tebow.

Maybe since none of y’all are fans of AFC West teams, you don’t remember but the Broncos defense actually led them that year, not Tim Tebow. The Broncos were among league worst in offense pts scored with Tebow.

It’s funny though because Chargers fans used McCoy’s success with the Tebow to sell themselves on accepting McCoy as coach and OC of the Chargers...and now y’all are doing the same to try and cope with him potentially becoming the next Cardinals OC. Hilarious.

 

[JeffGollin]

So..

What is our offense likely to look like? What kind of QB will fit best in McCoy's system - Carson Palmer II? Cam Newton II? Russell Wilson II? Combination of any of the above?

(Sounds tailor-made for a Sissy Boy poll).

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't like the hire, but I understand it.

Our head coach doesn't have any head coaching experience and only one year of coordinating experience. Our DC doesn't have any coordinating experience. Getting an OC with head coaching and coordinating experience makes a lot of sense, although I would have preferred a more innovative OC.

If that’s all they wanted why didn’t they go after any of the other bum coaches in the league like Cam Cameron or Tom Cable or something.

 

[sunsfan88]

Two clues to MCCoy's hiring:

- JW's comment about building the offense around a strong running attack (a McCoy strength)

- JW's comment on the importance of creating favorable matchups (another McCoy strength).

Oh yeah? Please tell me where the Chargers and Broncos rushing offense ranked when McCoy was with them. I’ll give you a hint because I’m a Bolts fan, not very good.

As to the second part of your post....lmao! I needed a good laugh, thank you.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Well, it must be official now...his Wikipedia page has been updated...hahahahahaha


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[sunsfan88]

So..

What is our offense likely to look like? What kind of QB will fit best in McCoy's system - Carson Palmer II? Cam Newton II? Russell Wilson II? Combination of any of the above?

(Sounds tailor-made for a Sissy Boy poll).

Your offense will look extremely predictable and conservative. If you guys want, we can do we did on the Chargers forum in years past and have a contest on guessing McCoy’s playcalls. If I participate, I know I’ll win it every week cause I know his playcalls too well but I can set it up! It actually takes away some of the sorrow from having to watch a Mike McCoy vanilla and predictable offense.

As to your second question, one that is already established and developed and doesn’t need to be developed under McCoy (like Peyton/Rivers).

 

[cardpa]

Your offense will look extremely predictable and conservative. If you guys want, we can do we did on the Chargers forum in years past and have a contest on guessing McCoy’s playcalls. If I participate, I know I’ll win it every week cause I know his playcalls too well but I can set it up! It actually takes away some of the sorrow from having to watch a Mike McCoy vanilla and predictable offense.

As to your second question, one that is already established and developed and doesn’t need to be developed under McCoy (like Peyton/Rivers).

So what is it, simple or complex? I have read both here that McCoy either runs a simple conservative vanilla offense or runs an offense that is as complex as Arians was. It can't be both. Wish someone could throw real light on this. If it's simple then a rookie should be able to run it. If it's complex to the nth degree then you need a vet to run it.

 

[JeffGollin]

So what is it, simple or complex? I have read both here that McCoy either runs a simple conservative vanilla offense or runs an offense that is as complex as Arians was. It can't be both. Wish someone could throw real light on this. If it's simple then a rookie should be able to run it. If it's complex to the nth degree then you need a vet to run it.

The closest I can come is:

The playcalling is conservative. The terminology is complex.

At least that's how 2 or 3 Charger fans have characterized it. Warning - The multiplicity of their posts creates the possible misconception that many Charger fans hated McCoy. Maybe/maybe not - but beware the small sample size.

Those negative posts left me in a deep funk, but then I took a deep breath and have decided to wait for more input from team, coaches and, of course, McCoy.

 

[Frank The Fixer]

Mike McCoy sucks. You guys thought you hated Bevell? Wait till McCoy then.

Us Chargers fans threw a party at a forum meet up in SoCal when McCoy was fired. We wanted to throw a ******** parade when news broke that our hated divison rivals hired McCoy as the OC of the Broncos!!

Broncos fans are lucky, they only had to experience the demise of Mike McCoy for 1 year while us Chargers fans endured it for 4+ years!!

Cardinals have such pathetic leadership at the top of the organization if their gonna waste Fitzgerald’s last years and Davis Johnson’s prime years with this clown of an OC.

Better hope some sense gets knocked into them and Cardinals look elsewhere for an OC.

Spanos is a Malaka so don't put all the blame on McCoy. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Vikings fans weren't jumping for joy when they hired a retread who sucked as a head coach in Cleveland to be their OC but 2 years later theyre crying when Shurmer leaves.
I don't know if McCoy will be successful here but I'm going to give the guy a fair shot before I shovel dirt on him .

 

[JeffGollin]

Just a wildassed thought -

Did retaining Fitz enter into the decision?

i.e. Is a conservative run-orientd, old-school offense more "Fitz-friendly" than a more wide open BA approach?

Just wondering.

 

[sunsfan88]

So what is it, simple or complex? I have read both here that McCoy either runs a simple conservative vanilla offense or runs an offense that is as complex as Arians was. It can't be both. Wish someone could throw real light on this. If it's simple then a rookie should be able to run it. If it's complex to the nth degree then you need a vet to run it.

It’s very vanilla but he uses complex terminology (as poster above mentioned).

There’s only one good thing about McCoy and it’s that he runs an up tempo offense every now and then. He will run hurry up offense but only like once every 3 games but it’s actually successful when he runs it.

 

[Gandhi]

Mike McCoy sucks. You guys thought you hated Bevell? Wait till McCoy then.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Sunsfan. It’s always a good thing to hear a case from different angles to get a better perspective.

That said, your post does not make me change my mind on the expected signing of McCoy as being somewhat of a positive. There are different reasons for that.

First of all, if McCoy is hired, that is what Mr. Bidwill, Steve Keim and Steve Wilks prefers. What are we supposed to do about that as fans? I think it’s fairly safe to assure you that the decisionmakers are not going to change their opinion based on my or any other fans' feelings about it. I am not going to complain about the Cardinals all season long. They are my team, and I am going to support them. If that means I must find some way to feel good about whoever might be on their new coaching staff, well, then that is what I will do my best to figure out.

Secondly, as I have stated more than once, McCoy has a history of success. It might not be the best track record for an offensive coordinator in the NFL, but it is certainly not the worst either. In my opinion, he has deserved the benefit of the doubt.

Third, I would argue that none of the offenses McCoy worked with in San Diego had better personnel than what is expected in Arizona, and it certainly was not the case in Denver last year either.

Fourth, to the best of my knowledge he didn’t call plays while at San Diego. Sure, it was probably at least partly his schemes, but execution is arguable the most important in-game aspect in the NFL. A head coach has a lot of other responsibilities than calling plays. That’s why many head coaches choose to hire coordinators.

Fifth, on this board some posters are consistent and harsh in their critique of either Bruce Arians, Steve Keim or both. Some, like me, would say that the two of them have done a great job, but I guess that’s just the way it goes. Fans are rarely satisfied, and everyone is an extremely good Monday Morning Quarterback. Including me, I should say, so I am not pointing fingers at anyone. It’s a fan-thing, I would imagine. Not saying you are wrong. Just that your opinion might not be entirely objective.

 

[football karma]

McCoy:

while i think coaching matters, its effect is swamped by the impact of personnel

a really good OC cant turn mediocre offensive personnel into a top 5 offense. If they could do so with any regularity -- it would be coaches making $20 million per year and players paid much less.

the reality with McCoy is that, like most offensive coordinators, he had good offenses when he had good personnel and his offense struggled when he had below average personnel.

finally: its seems an ironclad rule that defensive oriented HCs tend to favor conservative offensive playcalling. The change from BAs approach to what might even be "middle of the road" conservative will likely be a shock to us.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Oh yeah? Please tell me where the Chargers and Broncos rushing offense ranked when McCoy was with them. I’ll give you a hint because I’m a Bolts fan, not very good.

As to the second part of your post....lmao! I needed a good laugh, thank you.

I seem to remember the Chargers were literarily signing guys off the street when McCoy was Coach there to replace injured Offensive Linemen. Didn't they use like 25 OL combos in 2015? Kind of hard to get a running game going when your OL consists of 4th and 5th stringers that were just signed off the street.

Didn't the same thing happen in 2016?

 

[sunsfan88]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Sunsfan. It’s always a good thing to hear a case from different angles to get a better perspective.

That said, your post does not make me change my mind on the expected signing of McCoy as being somewhat of a positive. There are different reasons for that.

First of all, if McCoy is hired, that is what Mr. Bidwill, Steve Keim and Steve Wilks prefers. What are we supposed to do about that as fans? I think it’s fairly safe to assure you that the decisionmakers are not going to change their opinion based on my or any other fans' feelings about it. I am not going to complain about the Cardinals all season long. They are my team, and I am going to support them. If that means I must find some way to feel good about whoever might be on their new coaching staff, well, then that is what I will do my best to figure out.

Secondly, as I have stated more than once, McCoy has a history of success. It might not be the best track record for an offensive coordinator in the NFL, but it is certainly not the worst either. In my opinion, he has deserved the benefit of the doubt.

Third, I would argue that none of the offenses McCoy worked with in San Diego had better personnel than what is expected in Arizona, and it certainly was not the case in Denver last year either.

Fourth, to the best of my knowledge he didn’t call plays while at San Diego. Sure, it was probably at least partly his schemes, but execution is arguable the most important in-game aspect in the NFL. A head coach has a lot of other responsibilities than calling plays. That’s why many head coaches choose to hire coordinators.

Fifth, on this board some posters are consistent and harsh in their critique of either Bruce Arians, Steve Keim or both. Some, like me, would say that the two of them have done a great job, but I guess that’s just the way it goes. Fans are rarely satisfied, and everyone is an extremely good Monday Morning Quarterback. Including me, I should say, so I am not pointing fingers at anyone. It’s a fan-thing, I would imagine. Not saying you are wrong. Just that your opinion might not be entirely objective.

To your first part, you’re right there’s nothing you or any other fan can do about it. Sometimes teams put out rumors to see fan reactions on social media and such and sometimes it does have an influence (albeit small) on what they finally decide.

Secondly, sure he has had success or else he wouldn’t make it to the NFL. That goes for all the coaches in the league, the good and bad ones.

I don’t think the current Cardinals offense personnel is significantly better than what McCoy had with the Chargers. Phillip Rivers is a much, much better player than anything Arizona has to offer and that itself shifts things. David Johnson is a beast and Fitzgerald can still play but McCoy had Keenan Allen too and our offense were still vanilla and predictable.

Fourth, he did call plays from time to time and heavily influenced big decisions on offense and whether to throw or pass on crucial 3rd down/4th down etc. Especially during the years Whisenhunt wasn’t there.

Fifth, you’re right. But I will say that while the Chargers still missed the playoffs this past season, Lynn has been so much better for us than Mike McCoy ever was and we actually had one playoff win over Andy Dalton Bengals in McCoy’s first year.

I like the Cardinals so I hope it works out and I’m wrong but I just don’t see it. McCoy is just truly that bad but perhaps he’s adapted and changed...at least hope so for Fitzgerald’s sake.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

So..

What is our offense likely to look like? What kind of QB will fit best in McCoy's system - Carson Palmer II? Cam Newton II? Russell Wilson II? Combination of any of the above?

(Sounds tailor-made for a Sissy Boy poll).

I wanted to have Mike McCoy as the head coach before they hired Arians, so I am fine with him coming in as the Offensive Coordinator.

Every coach that is brought in, there will be reservation about, and mine with McCoy is after his popularity in 2013 for a head coaching position he has faded a lot, and in the end he was fired by the Broncos this season. Was he the scapegoat ? I do not know, but again, I think John Elway is having a major problem dealing with adversity as the Broncos GM right now, but that is another story all together.

What do you get from Mike McCoy you ask, well, by connecting some dots:

- He is from the John Fox coaching tree for better or worse

- He is an offensive coordinator that has instituted a lot of run-first offenses. When I say run-first, I am not talking THESMEL type running the football, where our running back is going to carry the ball 40 times a game, but modern day NFL, run-first.

- He will want to use the power run blocking scheme, which fits well with our current offensive line.

- With this hire, I can see the Cardinals going after a game manager at QB in free agency. Alex Smith has a bulls eye on him right now, and I would not discount other "game managers" coming in as well. Dare I say Tyrod Taylor.

Above are just some tidbits I have scrounged up about McCoy, I am not really endorsing here, more than passing the message along.

FYI - This deal is DONE. McCoy is the offensive coordinator, they just are waiting to announce it. http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8360/mike-mccoy

HC: Steve Wilks
OC: Mike McCoy
DC: Al Holcomb

There you have it.

 

[sunsfan88]

I seem to remember the Chargers were literarily signing guys off the street when McCoy was Coach there to replace injured Offensive Linemen. Didn't they use like 25 OL combos in 2015? Kind of hard to get a running game going when your OL consists of 4th and 5th stringers that were just signed off the street.

Didn't the same thing happen in 2016?

Yeah the Chargers has crazy amount of injuries under him. His style of offense puts a ton of pressure on players bodies and they tend to break down at a rather spectacular pace.

In comparison, the Chargers this past season under new coach Lynn barely had any injuries and were one of the healthiest teams in the league.

 

[Hoodhero]

Fanbase needs to realize that Cards at bottom of barrel in NFC right now. Im thinking Bevell & more, probably backed out or others showed no interest when approached. Taking the Cards OC postion right now is a high risk proposition for anyone with any long range ambition. All this talk of we should of taken Coach X id especially foolish without knowing more details.