Meat to the Wolves: My Preliminary QB list for the draft

[WisconsinCard]

Agreed.

To put it bluntly, the question on the table is:

If the QB of the future is going to get 3 years to prove himself, then why not put in two 1st round picks to get him since you have a QB solution for the next 3 years anyway.

Plus, if you do not spend the two 1st round picks to get said "can't miss" QB, then are the two players you choose in the first round in the following years going to produce enough to make this team competitive for a title without a top QB ?

Good question if you ask me.

Good points, and another thing to consider if you trade away a the next couple of first rounder's, you have freed that cap space to sign an extra player every one of those years. So essentially you give up a first round pick but you can sign a vet player with the extra cap space. I am not advocating for trading these picks away, just saying if we did there are other considerations involved.

 

[Solar7]

Good points, and another thing to consider if you trade away a the next couple of first rounder's, you have freed that cap space to sign an extra player every one of those years. So essentially you give up a first round pick but you can sign a vet player with the extra cap space. I am not advocating for trading these picks away, just saying if we did there are other considerations involved.

The amount of money you pay a rookie does not scratch the amount of money you pay a proven vet - even on a minimum deal. You’re getting a rookie for 4-5 years at a great price. It’s how you build the belly of your team.

 

[oaken1]

The amount of money you pay a rookie does not scratch the amount of money you pay a proven vet - even on a minimum deal. You’re getting a rookie for 4-5 years at a great price. It’s how you build the belly of your team.

not exactly so...especially when your talking early picks...the first dollar amount is each teams rookie pool this year...each cash amount after that is hos much money they will use this year to sign the guy they pick in each corresponding round at their pick....

so you see the Browns will be paying the top overall pick $6mil... whereas the Giants first round pick will be getting right around $5.7mil... the Browns second round pick will get about $1.4mil and their third round pick about$750k........... the nfl veteran minimum ranges from $480k to right at $1mil for guys with 10+ yrs exp.....younger players in their prime on minimum contracts get between 700 and 900k.....where the Cardinals pick even a third rounder gets $709k....

but as in anything...we dont want to build a roster with vet minimum guys anyway...they are either old, or they suck...had injury issues...whatever

Click a team to highlight picks 2018 Rookie Cap Numbers (by round and pick)
Team Total Rookie Pool # 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Browns $19,020,444 1 $5,966,655 $1,370,926 $745,784 $667,830 $561,443 $528,682 $506,121
Giants $10,648,353 2 $5,694,864 $1,358,571 $743,620 $663,662 $560,725 $527,282 $506,038
Colts $9,839,962 3 $5,521,907 $1,346,217 $743,401 $663,067 $560,117 $526,520 $505,509
Texans $4,832,972 4 $5,324,243 $1,321,510 $741,070 $661,942 $559,759 $525,576 $505,306
Broncos $11,074,111 5 $4,978,326 $1,311,626 $738,523 $660,261 $558,189 $524,567 $504,620
Jets $9,660,917 6 $4,360,621 $1,289,388 $733,670 $659,289 $556,326 $523,757 $504,084
Buccaneers $7,987,744 7 $3,866,456 $1,267,151 $730,363 $658,632 $555,770 $523,166 $503,705
Bears $7,532,556 8 $3,372,292 $1,247,385 $728,029 $657,711 $555,204 $522,873 $503,600
Raiders $9,496,753 9 $3,347,583 $1,227,617 $724,884 $656,691 $555,014 $522,326 $503,524
49ers $8,207,356 10 $3,211,688 $1,205,379 $723,325 $655,447 $554,825 $521,759 $503,361
Dolphins $8,238,002 11 $3,001,668 $1,185,614 $720,916 $652,499 $553,484 $521,592 $502,902
Bengals $9,456,075 12 $2,705,168 $1,166,779 $714,103 $652,099 $552,861 $520,689 $502,771
Redskins $7,235,841 13 $2,631,045 $1,140,397 $713,334 $651,418 $552,558 $520,133 $502,768
Packers $8,864,072 14 $2,507,504 $1,111,983 $711,960 $651,249 $552,464 $519,982 $502,456
Cardinals $7,056,382 15 $2,458,087 $1,074,426 $709,154 $650,398 $552,294 $519,797 $502,448
Ravens $6,346,770 16 $2,309,837 $1,049,718 $706,319 $648,244 $552,241 $519,625 $502,361
Chargers $6,719,433 17 $2,260,421 $1,025,010 $703,485 $647,556 $551,821 $519,385 $501,861
Seahawks $5,995,471 18 $2,198,652 $1,000,302 $701,478 $645,983 $551,379 $519,329 $501,484
Cowboys $7,790,797 19 $2,161,588 $975,595 $697,392 $644,339 $550,764 $519,252 $501,143
Lions $5,527,247 20 $2,149,234 $950,886 $694,485 $643,291 $550,571 $519,222 $500,259
Bills $8,450,220 21 $2,136,880 $926,177 $692,857 $642,235 $549,913 $518,982 $499,421
Chiefs $3,763,052 22 $2,112,172 $901,468 $690,095 $640,687 $549,607 $518,622 $499,228
Rams $5,518,785 23 $2,087,464 $876,760 $687,513 $638,761 $548,939 $518,422 $499,028
Panthers $6,997,846 24 $2,038,048 $864,406 $686,102 $638,761 $548,647 $517,904 $498,828
Titans $5,756,663 25 $2,013,339 $856,994 $685,633 $637,174 $547,468 $517,373 $498,682
Falcons $5,667,262 26 $1,988,630 $844,641 $685,400 $635,910 $547,308 $516,819 $498,517
Saints $5,919,472 27 $1,963,922 $827,345 $685,166 $634,039 $546,700 $516,657 $498,366
Steelers $5,053,526 28 $1,951,569 $819,932 $683,993 $633,230


$544,803 $516,505 $498,215
Jaguars $4,491,042 29 $1,852,432 $810,049 $681,651 $631,367 $543,814 $515,543 $497,984
Vikings $5,358,581 30 $1,799,932 $802,637 $679,307 $630,061 $542,280 $514,961 $497,817
Patriots $5,568,687 31 $1,755,959 $800,166 $676,965 $627,951 $541,523 $514,389 $497,577
Eagles $4,590,342 32 $1,727,644 $795,225 $674,623 $625,740 $540,578 $513,344 $497,345

 

[WisconsinCard]

The amount of money you pay a rookie does not scratch the amount of money you pay a proven vet - even on a minimum deal. You’re getting a rookie for 4-5 years at a great price. It’s how you build the belly of your team.

5 years at 22 to 30 million is 4 to 6 mil a year. You can get good players for that kind of money. Now remember I am not for trading away multiple pick to move up in the draft, I was just pointing out that there are other things to consider.

 

[Chopper0080]

Ryan and Wentz were proven winners/leaders in college. So was Watson last year. Don't think any of them really check that box this year. Darnold is probably closest. Clevland will take him. Giants may make them an offer. We'd have to give up this and next years 1 and 2's, and then some to pry that pick away. And they already have a boat load of picks. They might not even need more.

More realistic would be to target one of the other QB's (Mayfield, Allen) after Darnold is off the board and move into the top 10 to secure said player. Thus eliminating teams that would jump ahead of you and take their QBOF. I think that's their best bet.

Unless they really plan to go another direction, stay put and put their faith in one of the longer shots or at OL.

If they go OL first, they could look to trade back into the first for Jackson, Faulk or Rudolph if they last into the 20's.

Wentz's college team had a better record without him than they did with him when he was their starter. Being a "winner" in college is a bit overrated.

 

[BW52]

Agreed.

To put it bluntly, the question on the table is:

If the QB of the future is going to get 3 years to prove himself, then why not put in two 1st round picks to get him since you have a QB solution for the next 3 years anyway.

Plus, if you do not spend the two 1st round picks to get said "can't miss" QB, then are the two players you choose in the first round in the following years going to produce enough to make this team competitive for a title without a top QB ?

Good question if you ask me.[/QUOTE

excellent question Rugby.My question is also in the same area.If Cards can`t draft the QB of choice and have signed a veteran bridge guy would the team just draft BPA and wait till 2019 draft for QBOF? Are SK and Wilks secure enough to not reach for a 2nd tier QB in the draft and wait till next years draft where there are another 5-6 top QBs available? Will the fanbase react well if no QBOF is drafted this year?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

excellent question Rugby.My question is also in the same area.If Cards can`t draft the QB of choice and have signed a veteran bridge guy would the team just draft BPA and wait till 2019 draft for QBOF? Are SK and Wilks secure enough to not reach for a 2nd tier QB in the draft and wait till next years draft where there are another 5-6 top QBs available? Will the fanbase react well if no QBOF is drafted this year?

The credit for the question on the table goes to Chopper actually. He is the one who brought up some of the key points.

As for your question, there is not much I can say to answer it.

It matter on what the Cardinals consider to be a 1st round QB, if one of those QB's are going to be there.

I would say:

Sam Darnold
Josh Rosen
Lamar Jackson
Baker Mayfield
Josh Allen
Madison Rudolph

that list is what I feel could be a QB that the Cardinals can pick in the 1st round and justify it. Any QB after that would be a huge reach, and I think a big mistake.

In my personal opinion, so we are talking negligible credit towards this statement, after those QB's listed above, it would be hard pressed to say any of the other QB's are worth better than a 4th round pick.

With 14 picks made before them, and if all 6 QBs listed are taken, you are talking about getting the 8th best NON-QB Player ?

1. Bradley Chubb
2. Roquan Smith
3. Quenton Nelson
4. Courtland Sutton
5. Derwin James
6. Vita Vea
7. Joshua Jackson
8. Da'Ron Payne

And that is a top 8, made based on my personal opinion. I am sure one of those 8 would be a good pick for the Cardinals, and I am sure there is a list of 8 players someone else could come up with that still would have a great pick for the Cardinals.


15 is a good spot, IMHO.

As for the fan base? Fans are going to be angry no matter what you do, so you might as well follow what you believe in.

 

[BW52]

The credit for the question on the table goes to Chopper actually. He is the one who brought up some of the key points.

As for your question, there is not much I can say to answer it.

It matter on what the Cardinals consider to be a 1st round QB, if one of those QB's are going to be there.

I would say:

Sam Darnold
Josh Rosen
Lamar Jackson
Baker Mayfield
Josh Allen
Madison Rudolph

that list is what I feel could be a QB that the Cardinals can pick in the 1st round and justify it. Any QB after that would be a huge reach, and I think a big mistake.

In my personal opinion, so we are talking negligible credit towards this statement, after those QB's listed above, it would be hard pressed to say any of the other QB's are worth better than a 4th round pick.

With 14 picks made before them, and if all 6 QBs listed are taken, you are talking about getting the 8th best NON-QB Player ?

1. Bradley Chubb
2. Roquan Smith
3. Quenton Nelson
4. Courtland Sutton
5. Derwin James
6. Vita Vea
7. Joshua Jackson
8. Da'Ron Payne

And that is a top 8, made based on my personal opinion. I am sure one of those 8 would be a good pick for the Cardinals, and I am sure there is a list of 8 players someone else could come up with that still would have a great pick for the Cardinals.


15 is a good spot, IMHO.

As for the fan base? Fans are going to be angry no matter what you do, so you might as well follow what you believe in.

If the top QBs are gone i think Cards should seriously think about the top CB ( Denzel Ward?) Top inside DLINE (Vita Vea?) or TOP OG (Nelson).Any one those 3 seem to be solid 1st Round impact guys.I sure as hell don`t want another "who the hell is this guy picks".No more guys with crappy attitudes or lousy or questionable work ethics.No more reaches.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

If the top QBs are gone i think Cards should seriously think about the top CB ( Denzel Ward?) Top inside DLINE (Vita Vea?) or TOP OG (Nelson).Any one those 3 seem to be solid 1st Round impact guys.I sure as hell don`t want another "who the hell is this guy picks".No more guys with crappy attitudes or lousy or questionable work ethics.No more reaches.

I think Nkimdiche deserves his 3rd year before we bury him in the bust grave.

That being said, I 100% agree, that Keim has to reel it in a little bit with the small school phenom picks. None of them have really worked out in the end.

There is a reason a player goes to a big school, and has the reputation and value to his name that he does. Haason Reddick is a really good athlete, but when they chose him last year, it was the straw that broke the camel's back for my trust in Steve Keim, and the final kick in the nuts was drafting Chad Williams in the 3rd round instead of the one of the many CB's that were available.

You go to that well too many times, and get too cute, and it ends up biting you in the butt. This year, Keim should be banned from his diamond in the rough drafting. He did two last year, so he used up his pick for this year, last year.

They should have the pictures of John Brown, JJ Nelson, Chad Williams, Rodney Gunter, Haason Reddick, and Justin Bethel in front of him all draft so he can remember why he should not play that game again.

 

[DVontel]

I think Nkimdiche deserves his 3rd year before we bury him in the bust grave.

That being said, I 100% agree, that Keim has to reel it in a little bit with the small school phenom picks. None of them have really worked out in the end.

There is a reason a player goes to a big school, and has the reputation and value to his name that he does. Haason Reddick is a really good athlete, but when they chose him last year, it was the straw that broke the camel's back for my trust in Steve Keim, and the final kick in the nuts was drafting Chad Williams in the 3rd round instead of the one of the many CB's that were available.

You go to that well too many times, and get too cute, and it ends up biting you in the butt. This year, Keim should be banned from his diamond in the rough drafting. He did two last year, so he used up his pick for this year, last year.

They should have the pictures of John Brown, JJ Nelson, Chad Williams, Rodney Gunter, Haason Reddick, and Justin Bethel in front of him all draft so he can remember why he should not play that game again.

Eh, I already mentioned this in another thread, but I don’t classify Reddick(& JJ) as small school picks. I wasn’t mad at Keim for necessarily those two picks. I could copy & paste if you would like.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Eh, I already mentioned this in another thread, but I don’t classify Reddick(& JJ) as small school picks. I wasn’t mad at Keim for necessarily those two picks. I could copy & paste if you would like.

I can see the point, Temple and UAB can be said to be "not small schools", but then the debate of what a small school is would be have to be had, and to be honest, that is nothing I have interest in debating.

Maybe it is better to say college football powerhouses when talking about "big school", and Temple has not been a powerhouse in a long time, at least IMHO.

That being said, I could have hucked a chair from my house to Philadelphia when they chose Reddick over who was on the board. I knew it was coming too, it just such a Keim, cutesy-poo, I am smarter than everyone else, type pick.

At least when they chose DJ Humphries out of the blue it was because there was nothing there after Bud Dupree was chosen ........ man I was wrong bout Bud Dupree. LOL.

 

[cardncubfan]

I can see the point, Temple and UAB can be said to be "not small schools", but then the debate of what a small school is would be have to be had, and to be honest, that is nothing I have interest in debating.

Maybe it is better to say college football powerhouses when talking about "big school", and Temple has not been a powerhouse in a long time, at least IMHO.

That being said, I could have hucked a chair from my house to Philadelphia when they chose Reddick over who was on the board. I knew it was coming too, it just such a Keim, cutesy-poo, I am smarter than everyone else, type pick.

At least when they chose DJ Humphries out of the blue it was because there was nothing there after Bud Dupree was chosen ........ man I was wrong bout Bud Dupree. LOL.

Was it Hooker that you wanted? There's a couple of good players that went after Reddick.


13(13) Cardinals Reddick, Haason LB 6'1" 237 Temple 6.3

14(14) Eagles (From Vikings) Barnett, Derek DE 6'3" 259 Tennessee 6.1

15(15) Colts Hooker, Malik S 6'1" 206 Ohio St. 6.7

16(16) Ravens Humphrey, Marlon CB 6'0" 197 Alabama 6.1

17(17) Redskins Allen, Jonathan DE 6'3" 286 Alabama 6.8

18(18) Titans Jackson, Adoree' CB 5'10" 186 USC 5.9

19(19) Buccaneers Howard, O.J. TE 6'6" 251 Alabama 6.5

20(20) Broncos Bolles, Garett OT 6'5" 297 Utah 6.0

21(21) Lions Davis, Jarrad LB 6'1" 238 Florida 5.9

22(22) Dolphins Harris, Charles OLB 6'3" 253 Missouri 6.0

23(23) Giants Engram, Evan TE 6'3" 234 Mississippi 6.0

24(24) Raiders Conley, Gareon CB 6'0" 195 Ohio St. 6.0

25(25) Browns (From Texans) Peppers, Jabrill S 5'11" 213 Michigan 6.0

26(26) Falcons (From Seahawks) McKinley, Takkarist DE 6'2" 250 UCLA 6.2

27(27) Bills (From Chiefs) White, Tre'Davious CB 5'11" 192 LSU 6.0

28(28) Cowboys Charlton, Taco DE 6'6" 277 Michigan 6.3

29(29) Browns (From Packers) Njoku, David TE 6'4" 246 Miami 6.3

30(30) Steelers Watt, T.J. OLB 6'4" 252 Wisconsin 5.8

31(31) 49ers (From Seahawks through Falcons) Foster, Reuben LB 6'0" 229 Alabama 6.3

32(32) Saints (From Patriots) Ramczyk, Ryan OT 6'6" 310 Wisconsin 6.2

 

[Ohcrap75]

Was it Hooker that you wanted? There's a couple of good players that went after Reddick.


13(13) Cardinals Reddick, Haason LB 6'1" 237 Temple 6.3

14(14) Eagles (From Vikings) Barnett, Derek DE 6'3" 259 Tennessee 6.1

15(15) Colts Hooker, Malik S 6'1" 206 Ohio St. 6.7

16(16) Ravens Humphrey, Marlon CB 6'0" 197 Alabama 6.1

17(17) Redskins Allen, Jonathan DE 6'3" 286 Alabama 6.8

18(18) Titans Jackson, Adoree' CB 5'10" 186 USC 5.9

19(19) Buccaneers Howard, O.J. TE 6'6" 251 Alabama 6.5

20(20) Broncos Bolles, Garett OT 6'5" 297 Utah 6.0

21(21) Lions Davis, Jarrad LB 6'1" 238 Florida 5.9

22(22) Dolphins Harris, Charles OLB 6'3" 253 Missouri 6.0

23(23) Giants Engram, Evan TE 6'3" 234 Mississippi 6.0

24(24) Raiders Conley, Gareon CB 6'0" 195 Ohio St. 6.0

25(25) Browns (From Texans) Peppers, Jabrill S 5'11" 213 Michigan 6.0

26(26) Falcons (From Seahawks) McKinley, Takkarist DE 6'2" 250 UCLA 6.2

27(27) Bills (From Chiefs) White, Tre'Davious CB 5'11" 192 LSU 6.0

28(28) Cowboys Charlton, Taco DE 6'6" 277 Michigan 6.3

29(29) Browns (From Packers) Njoku, David TE 6'4" 246 Miami 6.3

30(30) Steelers Watt, T.J. OLB 6'4" 252 Wisconsin 5.8

31(31) 49ers (From Seahawks through Falcons) Foster, Reuben LB 6'0" 229 Alabama 6.3

32(32) Saints (From Patriots) Ramczyk, Ryan OT 6'6" 310 Wisconsin 6.2

I was so pumped OJ and Hooker were there and then had to play it off as I was cool with the pick of Reddick... I'm a terrible actor

 

[WisconsinCard]

At least when they chose DJ Humphries out of the blue it was because there was nothing there after Bud Dupree was chosen ........ man I was wrong bout Bud Dupree. LOL.

Oh I wasn't I was touting him as our pick in my first mock that year. When we were that close I was doing my pee pee dance. Ended up with a broken hip... Just when I thought I couldn't hate Pittsburgh more than I already did...

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Was it Hooker that you wanted? There's a couple of good players that went after Reddick

Yup. Malik Hooker, but the jury is still out about who was right about Hooker. The Cardinals passed because of injury history, I say they were crazy because his talent level is off the charts.

I was looking right when he had 3 INTs in his 1st seven games......then Hooker got hurt and put on IR.

I think that is a draw at this point.

 

[WildBB]

Wentz's college team had a better record without him than they did with him when he was their starter. Being a "winner" in college is a bit overrated.

Not for Watson, and Clemson was a good team. Who did ND play with Wentz out