Michael Vick

[Russ Smith]

Yeah I am getting tired of that comparison as well. He reminds me nothing of Vick. He isnt as athletic, he isnt as fast, but he is much more a pocket passer and as you piinted out with his rating, he is much more accurate.

I don't understand why he's not compared to Randall Cunningham, very similar build, young a bit stronger, Cunningham a better arm.

He reminds me a lot of McNabb too because he's filled out the way McNabb did, Donovan was really skinny when he arrived at Syracuse.

Nobody's ever won a Super Bowl with a QB like Vince Young but that doesn't mean it's not possible, it's not like QB's like him grow on trees.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I don't understand why he's not compared to Randall Cunningham, very similar build, young a bit stronger, Cunningham a better arm.

He reminds me a lot of McNabb too because he's filled out the way McNabb did, Donovan was really skinny when he arrived at Syracuse.

Nobody's ever won a Super Bowl with a QB like Vince Young but that doesn't mean it's not possible, it's not like QB's like him grow on trees.

BINGO!

That was the comparison I was looking for. He reminds me most of Randal Cunningham. I can see some of the McNabb comparisions but I think Young is a better runner and is faster than McNabb. (Might not have been coming out of College, but right now he certainly is)

Cunningham had that knack of eludingd efenders when he ran and although he wasnt staright line 40 fast, he had those lng legs that just ate up yards.

 

[john h]

Yeah I am getting tired of that comparison as well. He reminds me nothing of Vick. He isnt as athletic, he isnt as fast, but he is much more a pocket passer and as you piinted out with his rating, he is much more accurate.

I believe he gained over 700 yds rushing this year. He has more highlights of his running than passing one being a 70 yd TD run. He may make a better RB than a QB. You bet he is athletic. I said he was a slower Michael Vick and I still see him that way. He is in no way a pocket passer. Take a look at his carreer rushing record. You might be surprised.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I believe he gained over 700 yds rushing this year. He has more highlights of his running than passing one being a 70 yd TD run. He may make a better RB than a QB. You bet he is athletic. I said he was a slower Michael Vick and I still see him that way. He is in no way a pocket passer. Take a look at his carreer rushing record. You might be surprised.

Vick had nowhere near the success Young has had passing the ball. You may only focus on his running but his skill as a passer should also stand out. 64% completion percentage, 2800 yards 28 tds 240 yards a game? VaTech would have loved to get that type of production from Vick his last year.

He is not a rb. How many 6'5 rb's you see out there? Come on man, you are just pigeon holing him because he is a black running QB. Vick is 6 ft even and much quicker than Young. There is no comparison between the two in my eyes

 

[john h]

Yeah I am getting tired of that comparison as well. He reminds me nothing of Vick. He isnt as athletic, he isnt as fast, but he is much more a pocket passer and as you piinted out with his rating, he is much more accurate.

In 2005 Young ran for 850 yds. He ran for 257 yds against Ok State. He averaged 70.8 yards a game rushing over 12 games and scored 9 rushing TD's. He averaged more yards per game rushing than the entire Cardinal team. Yes at around 6'4" 225 lb he is much bigger than Vick and is slower but he is very much a runner like Vick with some nifty moves. He is not a typical pro pocket QB. Whether the pros will try to change him is unknown. Terry Bradshaw came into the NFL and tried to be a runner until he realized he would get killed. He became an all pro pocket QB. Kyper has him going at #7 in the draft. Should the Cards consider him. This is about where we will be drafting. He was playing behind one of the best lines in college.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Vick is one knee blowout from being the worst QB in the league.

 

[joeshmo]

In 2005 Young ran for 850 yds. He ran for 257 yds against Ok State. He averaged 70.8 yards a game rushing over 12 games and scored 9 rushing TD's. He averaged more yards per game rushing than the entire Cardinal team. Yes at around 6'4" 225 lb he is much bigger than Vick and is slower but he is very much a runner like Vick with some nifty moves. He is not a typical pro pocket QB. Whether the pros will try to change him is unknown. Terry Bradshaw came into the NFL and tried to be a runner until he realized he would get killed. He became an all pro pocket QB. Kyper has him going at #7 in the draft. Should the Cards consider him. This is about where we will be drafting. He was playing behind one of the best lines in college.

But you also forgot to give Youngs stats compared to Vicks in college. Youngs stats are double that of Vicks in their last years. I think Vick ran more then he attempted to throw the ball. Not true for young his is at a 2-1 ratio. Yes they are both runners one better then the other in Vick, but Young has proven to be a much more successfull passer then Vick at the same point in their careers. Young isnt as good of a runner at vick but he is a lot more well rounded then Vick coming out of college.

Them both being good runners is as far as their comparison goes.

 

[john h]

But you also forgot to give Youngs stats compared to Vicks in college. Youngs stats are double that of Vicks in their last years. I think Vick ran more then he attempted to throw the ball. Not true for young his is at a 2-1 ratio. Yes they are both runners one better then the other in Vick, but Young has proven to be a much more successfull passer then Vick at the same point in their careers. Young isnt as good of a runner at vick but he is a lot more well rounded then Vick coming out of college.

Them both being good runners is as far as their comparison goes.

Somehow I think the perception of this thread has gotten twisted around. For my part I stated that I thought Young was a slower and bigger Mike Vick. No where have I said he is not a good passer. He is very much a good runner as is Vick. How many Division I QB's ran for 850 yds this year. I would guess that led the nation. In one game against Ok State Young ran for 270 yds and has averaged around 70 yds plus running for the entire season. No one can argue that this guy is not a running QB. I offered up that Kipper has him as the #7 on his draft board and posed the question should we draft him. Being a guy who runs a lot will the NFL team that drafts him try and make him more of a pocket passer? That is a legit question as some teams prefer pocket passers. Randall Cunningham was often critisized for to much running as it can break down your offensive schemes. People may disagree with me when I say he reminds me of Mike Vick but I am not talking about size. I am talking about a guy who will tuck the ball away in a second and run. A lot of his passing is on the run. Some NFL teams will not want a guy like this and others will look at him and say they will change his style of play. Other will take him on his athletic ability. He flat out can run and make no mistake about that. Some idiot has posted that I might not like him because he is a "black" QB. That is the most idiotic post I have ever seen on this board. That fool does not know me from adam or whether I am black or white or oriental. For his benefit my favorite RB for the Cards of all time is Ollie Matson. My favorite Cub of all time is Ernie Banks. My favorite Air Force Leader and my first Commander was General Chappie James who this fool will not even know. I am probably foolish to even respond to such a post but to that poster I say get a life. I do not recall race being a part of any post since I have been here. I have never made one. Perhaps I could have missed one. It has no place in a forum like this.

 

[Pariah]

And two rushing TDs. I know, they were really forgettable.

I thought your point was that he can no longer be pegged as just a rusher, yet his rushing stats are still more impressive than his passing stats.

I like Vick. I think he can be a great QB. But, he's a short-timer for the NFL if he doesn't make himself a pass-first QB. That means he needs to scramble to pass, not scramble for yards.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Some idiot has posted that I might not like him because he is a "black" QB. That is the most idiotic post I have ever seen on this board. That fool does not know me from adam or whether I am black or white or oriental. For his benefit my favorite RB for the Cards of all time is Ollie Matson. My favorite Cub of all time is Ernie Banks. My favorite Air Force Leader and my first Commander was General Chappie James who this fool will not even know. I am probably foolish to even respond to such a post but to that poster I say get a life. I do not recall race being a part of any post since I have been here. I have never made one. Perhaps I could have missed one. It has no place in a forum like this.

Thats flat out untrue.

Never said you didnt like him b/c he is black, that you were just stereotyping him as a running QB, like many do, b/c he is black.

Many on this baord when talking about Marcus Vick immediatly thought he was a running QB too. He is not. In fact Beamer has had to encourage him to run more.

I never said anything about not liking him b/c he is black. In fact I have no idea if you liek him or not, just pointing out he is not like Mike Vick. He is a completly different QB.

 

[john h]

Yeah I like DeAngelo. I didint realize just how fast he is. I agree Hall will be a great one. Baily is good too though!

As a "homer" I would like to see DeAngelo Williams in AZ. Will he be there at #7. Kyper says yes. He is a combination of speed and power. He is listed as 5' 10" and 217 lbs. I think he will probably play at around 220 in the pros. He is from Wynne, AR. and was a great HS player who chose Memphis over Arkansas. Actually Wynn is much closer to his home than U. Arkansas. Probably only around 70 miles. Will be interesting to see how the scouts rate him. He is not from a major conference much like JJ. Stronger runner than JJ but against competition that might be questionable. I do not know if he will be a good inside power runner in the pros or not. You rarely do.

 

[Russ Smith]

As a "homer" I would like to see DeAngelo Williams in AZ. Will he be there at #7. Kyper says yes. He is a combination of speed and power. He is listed as 5' 10" and 217 lbs. I think he will probably play at around 220 in the pros. He is from Wynne, AR. and was a great HS player who chose Memphis over Arkansas. Actually Wynn is much closer to his home than U. Arkansas. Probably only around 70 miles. Will be interesting to see how the scouts rate him. He is not from a major conference much like JJ. Stronger runner than JJ but against competition that might be questionable. I do not know if he will be a good inside power runner in the pros or not. You rarely do.

They were talking about CB DeAngelo Hall not williams I think.

Agree on Williams, great player, question is does he have power? I haven't seen him break any more tackles in college than JJ did. What he does so well is turn a hole into a TD, just explosive ability to get to the 2nd level.

the Pac 10 not a "major" conference? 3 teams in the top 25, 2 in the top 6, 2 more in Cal and ASU that were ranked in the top 25 at one point this year.

A guy I know by the name of Darryl Marsee has a computer ranking system he's run for years, this year he has the Pac 10 rated 2nd behind the Big 10 in strength ratings, he's got the SEC rated 6th. And he's a Florida guy so he's not West Coast biased.

 

[john h]

They were talking about CB DeAngelo Hall not williams I think.

Agree on Williams, great player, question is does he have power? I haven't seen him break any more tackles in college than JJ did. What he does so well is turn a hole into a TD, just explosive ability to get to the 2nd level.

the Pac 10 not a "major" conference? 3 teams in the top 25, 2 in the top 6, 2 more in Cal and ASU that were ranked in the top 25 at one point this year.

A guy I know by the name of Darryl Marsee has a computer ranking system he's run for years, this year he has the Pac 10 rated 2nd behind the Big 10 in strength ratings, he's got the SEC rated 6th. And he's a Florida guy so he's not West Coast biased.

My talk about the Pac 10 is probably from an SEC viewer. They are heads and heels above the conference Memphis is in but over the years have not produced as many NFL players as the Big 10 or SEC.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

They were talking about CB DeAngelo Hall not williams I think.

Agree on Williams, great player, question is does he have power? I haven't seen him break any more tackles in college than JJ did. What he does so well is turn a hole into a TD, just explosive ability to get to the 2nd level.

the Pac 10 not a "major" conference? 3 teams in the top 25, 2 in the top 6, 2 more in Cal and ASU that were ranked in the top 25 at one point this year.

A guy I know by the name of Darryl Marsee has a computer ranking system he's run for years, this year he has the Pac 10 rated 2nd behind the Big 10 in strength ratings, he's got the SEC rated 6th. And he's a Florida guy so he's not West Coast biased.

wow what software program was he using? Big 10 number 1? No mention of the ACC with VaTech, Miami, Fla St, and Georgia Tech?

Big 10 might have been rated high at the beggining of the year but after Purdue, Michigan and Minnesotta fall into mediocrity I cant see that now.

 

[BigDavis75]

Back to the topic of the thread, Vick is an excellent player and I would take him at QB any day. Also, on V Young, he's my boy, after Leinart he would be the only QB I would want the Cards to take in the 1st (although I would rather take Jimmy Williams). No K9 Young will not be a WR under any circumstances.

 

[Lex]

Kero-whacked is right about Mike Vick...

just like he's right about Kyle Vandenbosch being nothing but a "try hard guy" that'll never be successful in the NFL.

 

[moklerman]

What I don't understand is how Young has been compared to 3 or 4 other qb's in this thread and they're all black! In the history of football, there's only been a handful of black qb's compared to white qb's and somehow Young just happens to compare to the black one's?

Sounds like the movie equivelant of type casting. Anyone out there who's watched Texas have a less gender-based comparison? From the few highlights I've seen, Cunningham, McNabb, Vick and Vick didn't come to mind at all. I'm still waiting for the Kordell Stewart, James Harris, Steve McNair and Doug Wiliiams comparisons.

 

[Duckjake]

What I don't understand is how Young has been compared to 3 or 4 other qb's in this thread and they're all black! In the history of football, there's only been a handful of black qb's compared to white qb's and somehow Young just happens to compare to the black one's?

Sounds like the movie equivelant of type casting. Anyone out there who's watched Texas have a less gender-based comparison? From the few highlights I've seen, Cunningham, McNabb, Vick and Vick didn't come to mind at all. I'm still waiting for the Kordell Stewart, James Harris, Steve McNair and Doug Wiliiams comparisons.

McNair is a close friend/advisor to Vince Young. I'd say Vince is more like Brett Farve than any of the other QB's you mentioned. Tough as nails,never gives up, will make a mistake trying too hard to win but will win more than he loses because of it, clutch.

 

[Southpaw]

McNair is a close friend/advisor to Vince Young. I'd say Vince is more like Brett Farve than any of the other QB's you mentioned. Tough as nails,never gives up, will make a mistake trying too hard to win but will win more than he loses because of it, clutch.

That is an insult to Favre. Brett has always had an extrememly accurate powerful arm with nearly perfect mechanics. Same can't be said for Young.

 

[Brian]

What I don't understand is how Young has been compared to 3 or 4 other qb's in this thread and they're all black! In the history of football, there's only been a handful of black qb's compared to white qb's and somehow Young just happens to compare to the black one's?

Sounds like the movie equivelant of type casting. Anyone out there who's watched Texas have a less gender-based comparison? From the few highlights I've seen, Cunningham, McNabb, Vick and Vick didn't come to mind at all. I'm still waiting for the Kordell Stewart, James Harris, Steve McNair and Doug Wiliiams comparisons.

Young reminds me of Daunte Culpepper.

 

[BigDavis75]

That is an insult to Favre. Brett has always had an extrememly accurate powerful arm with nearly perfect mechanics. Same can't be said for Young.

I don't know about his mechanics, his delivery has always seemed sloppy to me. I might compare Young to Big Ben, if not Culpepper.

 

[Russ Smith]

wow what software program was he using? Big 10 number 1? No mention of the ACC with VaTech, Miami, Fla St, and Georgia Tech?

Big 10 might have been rated high at the beggining of the year but after Purdue, Michigan and Minnesotta fall into mediocrity I cant see that now.

Here you go:


MARSEE I-A COLLEGE FOOTBALL COMPUTER CONFERENCE RANKINGS AS OF 12/04/05 |
| (Power ratings in parentheses) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 1. Big 10 (638) |
| 2. Pac 10 (612) |
| 3. Big 12 (582) |
| 4. Atlantic Coast (562) |
| 5. Independents (561) |
| 6. Southeastern (537) |
| 7. Big East (537) |
| 8. Mountain West (481) |
| 9. Conference USA (443) |
| 10. Western Athletic (388) |
| 11. Mid American (385) |
| 12. Sun Belt (259)

 

[Russ Smith]

What I don't understand is how Young has been compared to 3 or 4 other qb's in this thread and they're all black! In the history of football, there's only been a handful of black qb's compared to white qb's and somehow Young just happens to compare to the black one's?

Sounds like the movie equivelant of type casting. Anyone out there who's watched Texas have a less gender-based comparison? From the few highlights I've seen, Cunningham, McNabb, Vick and Vick didn't come to mind at all. I'm still waiting for the Kordell Stewart, James Harris, Steve McNair and Doug Wiliiams comparisons.

Well if you're mad we're only comparing him to men, I'm not going to be able to help you(I think you mean race based comparison not gender based). The only woman player I can think of is that one that kicked at Colorado and Young's way better than her.

To me, young reminds me a lot of Josh McCown, except he's taller, much better runner, learns quicker, has more perseverence, totally different throwing mechanics, and a much better leader. Other than that they're twins.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

That is an insult to Favre. Brett has always had an extrememly accurate powerful arm with nearly perfect mechanics. Same can't be said for Young.

65% completion percentage isnt accurate enough for you?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Here you go:


MARSEE I-A COLLEGE FOOTBALL COMPUTER CONFERENCE RANKINGS AS OF 12/04/05 |
| (Power ratings in parentheses) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 1. Big 10 (638) |
| 2. Pac 10 (612) |
| 3. Big 12 (582) |
| 4. Atlantic Coast (562) |
| 5. Independents (561) |
| 6. Southeastern (537) |
| 7. Big East (537) |
| 8. Mountain West (481) |
| 9. Conference USA (443) |
| 10. Western Athletic (388) |
| 11. Mid American (385) |
| 12. Sun Belt (259)

Oh I dont deny that is what he has it ranked, I just dont buy it....what is the criteria?