Mike Conley? Why Not

[elindholm]

If the Suns move Ryan Anderson and TJ Warren they gain capspace, not lose capspace.

How do you figure? Andersen and Warren add up to only $32 million for 2019-20, and that's if Anderson's buyout doesn't reduce his cap hit, which it probably would.

 

[SirStefan32]

Collison would be a good get. Or Jrue Holliday. Conley is likely the worst vet PG to get. Kills all flexibility. Already declining. High injury risk.

I have always been a big Conley fan, but I agree. I am actually Ok with him "declining", though. Suns actually don't need the all-star Conley. They need someone to play some D, bring the ball up the court, run a basic set, give the ball to Booker, hit an open three, etc. I think Conley CAN do that, but I think there are others who can do that for half the price of Conley.

 

[SirStefan32]

How do you figure? Andersen and Warren add up to only $32 million, and that's if Andersen's buyout doesn't reduce his cap hit, which it probably would.

Since this is Slin, the answer is probably "+/- advanced stats nobody can locate."

 

[Mainstreet]

I’d only offer Anderson/Bucks 1st but that should be enough to get the Grizzlies to bite because I can’t imagine they get much better offers due to Conley’s salary and what they would have to receive to offset that.

It would also take another contract like Warren to make the trade work. No thanks.

I bet Conley goes for some expiring contracts and a first round pick. Too bad the Suns do not have another bad contract to offer. Still Conley's salary makes it a non-starter.

 

[SirStefan32]

It would also take another contract like Warren to make the trade work. No thanks.

I bet Conley goes for some expiring contracts and a first round pick. Too bad the Suns do not have another bad contract.

If I were Jones and Sarver, I would insist of getting the right Brooks in that trade, just for some laughs.

 

[Mainstreet]

If I were Jones and Sarver, I would insist of getting the right Brooks in that trade, just for some laughs.

Of course. Forgot to include that. LMAO

 

[slinslin]

How do you figure? Andersen and Warren add up to only $32 million for 2019-20, and that's if Anderson's buyout doesn't reduce his cap hit, which it probably would.

Ryan Andersons cap hit is not reduced by him agreeing to reduce the guaranteed amount left in his final year.
That only reduces what the Suns have to pay him.

Anderson and Warren combined make a few million more than Conley so the Subs would gain capspace.

 

[slinslin]

Since this is Slin, the answer is probably "+/- advanced stats nobody can locate."

More like basic math which you probably failed even in first grade.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Grizzlies waited too long to trade Conley and Gasol to get much of a return.

Gasol can become a free agent this summer by opting out of the final year of his $25.5 million contract for 2019-20. He has a trade kicker on his contract that would be valued at $1.2 million at the time of the February deadline.

Conley, 31, has an early-termination option for the 2020-21 season. The guard has $22.4 million of his $34.5 million salary guaranteed, with the balance becoming fully protected if he plays in 55 games this season. He already has played in 46 games.

Conley is guaranteed $32 million in 2019-20, so trading for him is likely to commit an organization to $67 million in salary over the final two years of his original five-year, $153 million contract.

I could see where Conley gets no offers at all.

 

[elindholm]

More like basic math which you probably failed even in first grade.

I guess I failed it too.

Anderson 2019-20: $21.3 million
Warren 2019-20: $10.8 million

Conley 2019-20: $32.5 million

Can you help me understand how this supports the claim, "Anderson and Warren combined make a few million more than Conley"?

By the way, your hilarious comment about failing basic math will be elevated to the status of my signature file. Congratulations!

 

[Superbone]

His contract runs for two more seasons after this one, I doubt his body holds up. He can't shoot, he's on the decline and he's going to make 32 and then 34 million the next 2 years. We're desperate, sure, but we shouldn't give away assets to prove it.

Can't shoot?

For his career:

2P%: 0.468, 3P%: 0.375, FT%: 0.818

He's a good shooter.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think this is where the confusion occurs about Anderson's contract in trade:


Wojnarowski added that Anderson agreed to reduce his 2019-20 guarantee amount on his salary from $21.3 million to $15.6 million, the same amount Phoenix owed Knight in the final year of his contract. This year, Anderson will be paid $20.4 million.


Phoenix has until July 10, 2019, to decide on picking up Anderson’s $21.3 million deal or waiving him for $15.6 million.


http://arizonasports.com/story/1647...-ryan-anderson-marquese-chriss-trade-rockets/

 

[Western Font]

I'm not against an overpay for a productive stopgap, but I think Conley is just too expensive. I don't want the Suns to be looking to unload him themselves next year or the year after, and taking on other bad contracts to make the money work.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not against an overpay for a productive stopgap, but I think Conley is just too expensive. I don't want the Suns to be looking to unload him themselves next year or the year after, and taking on other bad contracts to make the money work.

It could be sort of a replay of Brandon Knight's contract except larger.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Can't shoot?

For his career:

2P%: 0.468, 3P%: 0.375, FT%: 0.818

He's a good shooter.

I should have been more specific but perhaps I'm the only one that isn't impressed by a penetrating PG that only makes 47% of his 2 point shots? He's shooting better from 2 this season but for his career he makes less than 40% of his mid range shots (from 3 foot and beyond). It wouldn't keep me from wanting him on our team. I'd pass on a trade but only because of the acquisition cost and medical concerns.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Meh, I don't know.

Conley seems to me to be in danger of being in that long line of vet failures this team has tried. Chandler, Ariza, Anderson etc. Even Jamal, as much as he tries, is flagging now. I think I would prefer young and hungry--those have worked out pretty well for us--Holmes, Oubre, Bridges, etc.

On paper, Conley looks, fine, but I guess I am jaded by the recent past.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I have always been a big Conley fan, but I agree. I am actually Ok with him "declining", though. Suns actually don't need the all-star Conley. They need someone to play some D, bring the ball up the court, run a basic set, give the ball to Booker, hit an open three, etc. I think Conley CAN do that, but I think there are others who can do that for half the price of Conley.

I'm not opposed to all of those attributes that you talk of, but like I said, Collison can do that too at a fraction of the cost.

I know we all want to see the Suns turn it around this year, but really, what's the advantage? Losing is GOOD for the Suns this year still.

Best case scenario for the Suns IF they added a Conley this year, would be to play .500 ball. Does that move the needle at all? Does that get the Suns to a championship or even the playoffs? No, it does not. And if they add a future pick, the deal is even worse since you get two more years of declining player by giving up one productive player and the chance at another productive player (future pick).

What I would do, is add a young veteran point guard (Tyus Jones? Delon Wright?) that is either a free agent or takes minimal trade assets to get. I would use the top pick on either Williamson if the Suns get lucky or maybe Morant if they are less lucky.

What I want to see, is to see depth and for the Suns not to be forced to play rookies big minutes in their rookie years. Morant would backup Jones/Wright/etc with Melton and Okobo still around just in case they develop. When you have 4 or 5 young players in a position group, the chances that one develops is fairly good as long as they are on different developmental curves.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not opposed to all of those attributes that you talk of, but like I said, Collison can do that too at a fraction of the cost.

I know we all want to see the Suns turn it around this year, but really, what's the advantage? Losing is GOOD for the Suns this year still.

Best case scenario for the Suns IF they added a Conley this year, would be to play .500 ball. Does that move the needle at all? Does that get the Suns to a championship or even the playoffs? No, it does not. And if they add a future pick, the deal is even worse since you get two more years of declining player by giving up one productive player and the chance at another productive player (future pick).

What I would do, is add a young veteran point guard (Tyus Jones? Delon Wright?) that is either a free agent or takes minimal trade assets to get. I would use the top pick on either Williamson if the Suns get lucky or maybe Morant if they are less lucky.

What I want to see, is to see depth and for the Suns not to be forced to play rookies big minutes in their rookie years. Morant would backup Jones/Wright/etc with Melton and Okobo still around just in case they develop. When you have 4 or 5 young players in a position group, the chances that one develops is fairly good as long as they are on different developmental curves.

I don't see the "losing is good" argument, especially with the new NBA lottery odds. Spending a year of your young players' careers (Ayton, Booker, Mikal, Warren etc) on 3 or 4 extra percentage points in the lottery does not seem to make sense. The best chance they get at the #1 pick is 15%, they are almost guaranteed to have a 12% chance. It just does not seem like a good bet.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't see the "losing is good" argument, especially with the new NBA lottery odds. Spending a year of your young players' careers (Ayton, Booker, Mikal, Warren etc) on 3 or 4 extra percentage points in the lottery does not seem to make sense. The best chance they get at the #1 pick is 15%, they are almost guaranteed to have a 12% chance. It just does not seem like a good bet.

If you view it as a one person draft, you're probably correct. And this year seems to be awfully close to a one player draft but I suspect by the time the postseason is over there will be 3 to 5 highly desirable prospects. If that's the case, there's a big difference between finishing with the 2nd worst record versus the 7th worst.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don't see the "losing is good" argument, especially with the new NBA lottery odds. Spending a year of your young players' careers (Ayton, Booker, Mikal, Warren etc) on 3 or 4 extra percentage points in the lottery does not seem to make sense. The best chance they get at the #1 pick is 15%, they are almost guaranteed to have a 12% chance. It just does not seem like a good bet.

And the flipside is getting at best a late lotto pick? I'm not talking about getting the top pick, I'm talking about getting a top 2-5 pick, which the Suns still need.

 

[Krangodnzr]

If you view it as a one person draft, you're probably correct. And this year seems to be awfully close to a one player draft but I suspect by the time the postseason is over there will be 3 to 5 highly desirable prospects. If that's the case, there's a big difference between finishing with the 2nd worst record versus the 7th worst.

EXACTLY. And trading for Conley COULD take them out of that range and for what? 10 more wins? Not worth it, not even a little bit.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I totally get it. It's frustrating seeing almost every game a loss, especially when the primary culprits are nearly no production or poor production from two positions (PG/PF).

But look at the model that the Sixers demonstrated. It's the model the Suns are surely going to have to follow. Don't mortgage the future for mediocrity, which is essentially what some on this board are advocating.

 

[Raindog]

As just about everyone on here has pointed out, getting Conley (at the right deal, of course) is at best an ambivalent move. He would fill a need, and he would make the current team slightly better. He would not elevate the current team to playoff status, and he would negatively impact the draft standing. So it really is a 50-50 proposition. Again, assuming they didn't make some bonehead trade of genuine assets for him... in which case, it would likely be an unmitigated disaster.

For the most part, it does seem at this point the Suns are more content to keep with the youth movement and invest another high pick in a draftee that will hopefully develop into a real NBA player. Which is not the worst approach at this point. No marquee free agents are coming here for the foreseeable future, and the Suns are not generally on the winning side of trades these days, so best just to stick with the lottery ticket approach instead of playing the stock market.

 

[1Sun]

The big question is how much more of the status quo will Booker and Warren (and by extension, perhaps Ayton and other key players) take before their frustrations get to the point that they want out. It is quite possible that a trade for at least a competent point guard is necessary in order for the team not to implode completely before season's end. We are already seeing the frustrations boil over publicly and pretty much kill team morale (which was precisely my fear going into the season), not to mention stunting the development of, well, everybody.

 

[BC867]

The big question is how much more of the status quo will Booker and Warren (and by extension, perhaps Ayton and other key players) take before their frustrations get to the point that they want out. It is quite possible that a trade for at least a competent point guard is necessary in order for the team not to implode completely before season's end. We are already seeing the frustrations boil over publicly and pretty much kill team morale (which was precisely my fear going into the season), not to mention stunting the development of, well, everybody.

It is about priorities. And, right now, just about every Suns problem comes down to the folly of going from three leading Point Guards competing with each other during games to not one NBA calibre Point Guard on the roster. Unprofessional gimmicks!

We need a quarterback to make the rest of the team better. They say a journey starts with the first step. How long are the Suns going to turn a blind eye to that first step? How can anyone condone the status quo? And how can anyone put our hopes into drafting Zion? Or tanking again?