Miller once again does it again!

[GatorAZ]

What a stunner that PGU whiffs on a prediction and then goes full turtle mode. He hasn't even updated his Twitter since the announcement.

As for Ferg, as long as he doesn't visit UNC, he should be Zona bound.

He's visiting UNC this week. Seems like a very impulsive kid that would commit on his last visit.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Man the jj news is a bummer. I didn't think it looked good but was holding out faint hope.

And speaking of point guard u (the nickname, not the website), McConnell was a good serviceable college pg, but am I wrong in thinking the position isn't as highly coveted by Miller as it was under lute? I don't think it was an accident that there was a steady flow of topnotch pg talent flowing through Tucson all those years, but it doesn't seem to be stressed by Miller.

 

[TJ]

He's visiting UNC this week. Seems like a very impulsive kid that would commit on his last visit.

Haven't heard that confirmed yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if TF took a visit. However, multiple Zona websites have been questioning vehemently as to whether it will ever happen. Some seem to think that he's been acting like an idiot about his recruitment as an attention-seeking behavior and making up for lost time while he was an Alabama commit.

NLI day is this Wednesday, so he'd have to do it very soon.

Also, now that JJ is officially off the board, Ferguson will be even more heavily recruited by Miller. Allegedly, Arizona is the front runner, so I would venture to guess that Miller is going to push very hard for a committment soon.

 

[TJ]

Man the jj news is a bummer. I didn't think it looked good but was holding out faint hope.

And speaking of point guard u (the nickname, not the website), McConnell was a good serviceable college pg, but am I wrong in thinking the position isn't as highly coveted by Miller as it was under lute? I don't think it was an accident that there was a steady flow of topnotch pg talent flowing through Tucson all those years, but it doesn't seem to be stressed by Miller.

McConnell being "serviceable" is probably the biggest understatement of any player who's ever played for Miller. There are 351 colleges who would love that kind of serviceability.

In addition, Miller has a 5-star PG in this class and is heavily recruiting the two top PGs in the 2017 class. He had a 5-star PG in 2015, a 4-star in 2014, McConnell in 2013, Mark Lyons in 2012, and another 5-star in 2011. Not all of them have panned out, but I'm not sure how much more motivated you can be than to target and acquire some of the higher ranked guys at that position.

 

[GatorAZ]

Haven't heard that confirmed yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if TF took a visit. However, multiple Zona websites have been questioning vehemently as to whether it will ever happen. Some seem to think that he's been acting like an idiot about his recruitment as an attention-seeking behavior and making up for lost time while he was an Alabama commit.

NLI day is this Wednesday, so he'd have to do it very soon.

Also, now that JJ is officially off the board, Ferguson will be even more heavily recruited by Miller. Allegedly, Arizona is the front runner, so I would venture to guess that Miller is going to push very hard for a committment soon.

Yeah I was looking at a UNC site and just says he plans to visit but no date yet. https://keepingitheel.com/2016/04/09/unc-basketball-terrance-ferguson-set-to-visit-tar-heels/

Now that the attention will all be on him I wouldn't be surprised if he dragged it out.

 

[TJ]

Yeah I was looking at a UNC site and just says he plans to visit but no date yet. https://keepingitheel.com/2016/04/09/unc-basketball-terrance-ferguson-set-to-visit-tar-heels/

Now that the attention will all be on him I wouldn't be surprised if he dragged it out.

It should also be noted that the only dates that TF could visit another school are April 21st (a Thursday) and after April 25th. With NLI day this Wednesday, he's more likely to be done with his recruitment before the 21st than after.

I suppose if he wanted to drag this thing out until the final signing day, which is May 18th, that he could, but it benefits no one taking that long to make a decision.

 

[DWKB]

It should also be noted that the only dates that TF could visit another school are April 21st (a Thursday) and after April 25th. With NLI day this Wednesday, he's more likely to be done with his recruitment before the 21st than after.

I suppose if he wanted to drag this thing out until the final signing day, which is May 18th, that he could, but it benefits no one taking that long to make a decision.

Theoretically a kid could wait until the first day of classes if the school still has a scholarship. There is no reason to sign a LOI or even commit by a certain date outside of the scholarship issue.

Also, I'm really surprised you've doubled down with this "I've known for weeks" comment. Nobody knew until 7:30 last night. Many suspected, but could have been wrong, nobody had the truth or whole story, some didn't even have part of it. Blows my mind.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

McConnell being "serviceable" is probably the biggest understatement of any player who's ever played for Miller. There are 351 colleges who would love that kind of serviceability.

In addition, Miller has a 5-star PG in this class and is heavily recruiting the two top PGs in the 2017 class. He had a 5-star PG in 2015, a 4-star in 2014, McConnell in 2013, Mark Lyons in 2012, and another 5-star in 2011. Not all of them have panned out, but I'm not sure how much more motivated you can be than to target and acquire some of the higher ranked guys at that position.

Eh, McConnell was good. Maybe serviceable was an understatement. But he was rarely a game changer. And he certainly play to the level of the top Lute pgs of years past.

Who were the 2011 and 2014 pgs? If they were that highly rated either they were over-rated or not coached up well.

And is Simmons the five star pg in 2015? I'm skeptical he's a true point. I think pg us being thrown around very loosely over the past few years. At most the majority of these pgs are combo guards. Not true lead guards.

 

[Russ Smith]

No inside knowledge but the concern with Ferguson adding UNC is that if he's serious he might just not sign an NLI at all and wait. Nobody knows but there's certainly the possibility the NCAA could rule in the next few months on does UNC get any probation over that AFAM academics scandal. It would not surprise me at all if a kid like Ferguson thinks I am going to wait, if they get probation I go to Arizona or Baylor or whoever, if they don't get probation I go to UNC. All of these schools are going to hold a roster spot for him and he has no need to sign he can get a scholarship agreement later on.

Generally speaking when a kid adds a team that late he's either just padding his list, which Ferguson doesn't need to do, or he's changed his mind.

He's good but I think the Hoop Summit game sort of skewed the expectations on him IMO Alkins is a better player, much more physically ready for college.

Miller said he wants 6-7 guys, he's got 3, so I'm guessing at least 2 transfers maybe one grad one regular transfer.

He's going to get players but I think obviously the first year of trying to go the UK route has had mixed results. Very good class, Ferguson makes it a great class, but the monster class went out the window with Jackson.

 

[TJ]

Theoretically a kid could wait until the first day of classes if the school still has a scholarship. There is no reason to sign a LOI or even commit by a certain date outside of the scholarship issue.

Also, I'm really surprised you've doubled down with this "I've known for weeks" comment. Nobody knew until 7:30 last night. Many suspected, but could have been wrong, nobody had the truth or whole story, some didn't even have part of it. Blows my mind.

Reports came out that his decision was made right before the McD AA game. JJ told a number of people at the game that he was going to Kansas.

There was a lot of other distracting information and wishful thinking floating around, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together. Not sure why there was so much vacillation towards the end as the answer was pretty cut and dry.

 

[TJ]

And is Simmons the five star pg in 2015? I'm skeptical he's a true point. I think pg us being thrown around very loosely over the past few years. At most the majority of these pgs are combo guards. Not true lead guards.

The problem with PGs coming into the collegiate game this day and age is that they normally don't have the fundamentals to be a true PG or a good all-around PG. PGs coming out of HS would rather perfect their ability to dribble-drive, work off ISO, and shoot from outside instead of set up plays, find passing lanes, and play defense. When these unrefined players get to college, they're either the best scorer on the team or they're playing with a bunch of other talented guys, which almost mandates that they become a distributor first; a role they're not used to. And before they even begin to scratch the surface, they end up transferring or declaring.

Conversely, the guys who do possess many of the traditional PG traits, such as elite court vision, setting up plays, and being the de facto coach on the floor, are normally the unathletic kids who need more years of conditioning.

In short, it takes about 3-4 years for a good PG to develop if they're patient and receptive to coaching. There are exceptions, but not many.

This is very different from when Lute was recruiting. Those kids had the necessary coaching in high school to be more well-rounded and to understand all of the nuances of being a PG; but, also, they stayed in college for 3-4 years instead of 1-2.

You may be right in that Simmons comes in without many true PG talents, but with Trier, Alkins, Marrk, and (maybe) Ferguson in the mix, Miller will make sure that Simmons knows what his true role on the team is.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The problem with PGs coming into the collegiate game this day and age is that they normally don't have the fundamentals to be a true PG or a good all-around PG. PGs coming out of HS would rather perfect their ability to dribble-drive, work off ISO, and shoot from outside instead of set up plays, find passing lanes, and play defense. When these unrefined players get to college, they're either the best scorer on the team or they're playing with a bunch of other talented guys, which almost mandates that they become a distributor first; a role they're not used to. And before they even begin to scratch the surface, they end up transferring or declaring.

Conversely, the guys who do possess many of the traditional PG traits, such as elite court vision, setting up plays, and being the de facto coach on the floor, are normally the unathletic kids who need more years of conditioning.

In short, it takes about 3-4 years for a good PG to develop if they're patient and receptive to coaching. There are exceptions, but not many.

This is very different from when Lute was recruiting. Those kids had the necessary coaching in high school to be more well-rounded and to understand all of the nuances of being a PG; but, also, they stayed in college for 3-4 years instead of 1-2.

You may be right in that Simmons comes in without many true PG talents, but with Trier, Alkins, Marrk, and (maybe) Ferguson in the mix, Miller will make sure that Simmons knows what his true role on the team is.

Makes sense. I guess that's also why we really haven't seen an influx of really good pgs into the nba in some time.

I am going to age myself, but I harken back to the times of KJ, price, Stockton, Payton, Isaiah, magic, Harper (Dallas), hardaway, porter, penny, Kidd, stoudemire, bibby, Nash (most of these overlapped over time). And I know I'm forgetting some.

Now we've got wall, Lilliard, curry, Westbrook, Paul, Irving, and I can't really think of anyone else I'd put top tier.

 

[Russ Smith]

Makes sense. I guess that's also why we really haven't seen an influx of really good pgs into the nba in some time.

I am going to age myself, but I harken back to the times of KJ, price, Stockton, Payton, Isaiah, magic, Harper (Dallas), hardaway, porter, penny, Kidd, stoudemire, bibby, Nash (most of these overlapped over time). And I know I'm forgetting some.

Now we've got wall, Lilliard, curry, Westbrook, Paul, Irving, and I can't really think of anyone else I'd put top tier.

I also think it's the change in how kids come up now. AAU bal lis much bigger than it used to be and nobody learns how to play team ball in AAU. And the rise of the "mega teams" in HS where everyone goes to Oak Hill or Montverde or Findlay impacts it too. When you're playing PG and the other 4 kids on the court with you are all D1 athletes too, you don't learn how to play PG you learn how to throw lobs.

I watched the California State finals, Chino Hills won it and Casey Jacobsen was the color guy, he was saying the reason guys like Lonzo Ball are so rare now is most parents don't do what LaVar Ball did and keep his kid in a public school and shy away from his kids playing AAU ball. That said I think great PG's are born not made, why else is Lonzo such a pass first guy and his brothers are chuckers, they had the exact same development process.

 

[overseascardfan]

I have a membership on Wildcat Authority (Scout). They're not as outspoken as PGU, but their information is fairly solid (I've known it was KU for JJ for a number of weeks at this point) and, for the most part, the people on the premium board are very knowledgeable about the team and its history.

The point is everyone with the exception of the dude Russ was talking about knee for weeks it was going to be KU. Every recruiting service was putting it out there. No need to pay bad info, particularly for Rivals insider info.

 

[Russ Smith]

The point is everyone with the exception of the dude Russ was talking about knee for weeks it was going to be KU. Every recruiting service was putting it out there. No need to pay bad info, particularly for Rivals insider info.

I think DWKB has a valid point. People "guessed" he was going to Kansas, educated guesses, but nobody really knew until he said Kansas on his twitter page.

Remember it wasn't that long ago that DWKB suggested the kid might go to Kansas and was told people in the know said it was Arizona or MSU. If they were in the know how could they have not had Kansas? Because the kid changed his mind.

 

[overseascardfan]

I think DWKB has a valid point. People "guessed" he was going to Kansas, educated guesses, but nobody really knew until he said Kansas on his twitter page.

Remember it wasn't that long ago that DWKB suggested the kid might go to Kansas and was told people in the know said it was Arizona or MSU. If they were in the know how could they have not had Kansas? Because the kid changed his mind.

Usually where there is smoke, there is fire. People speculated he was a near lock to UA at the beginning of the year, then MSU made it a 2 school race until KU got involved a couple months ago, then he commits to KU. Same thing happened last year with Rabb where every UA fan thought he was a lock and CAL had no business in the discussion but then lo and behold he commits to CAL.

 

[DWKB]

Usually where there is smoke, there is fire. People speculated he was a near lock to UA at the beginning of the year, then MSU made it a 2 school race until KU got involved a couple months ago, then he commits to KU. Same thing happened last year with Rabb where every UA fan thought he was a lock and CAL had no business in the discussion but then lo and behold he commits to CAL.

Right, but before UA he was originally KU for a long time. It's not like we just swooped in at the last second here.

 

[GatorAZ]

Jerry Meyer – ‏@jerrymeyer247

Terrance Ferguson tweets he will announce this week. No more visits. Arizona strongest in #CrystalBall. http://bit.ly/1qmZWeQ
247Sports

If TF commits to AZ it would likely leapfrog them over UCONN, MSU and UCLA to #3 ranked class.

 

[TJ]

Usually where there is smoke, there is fire. People speculated he was a near lock to UA at the beginning of the year, then MSU made it a 2 school race until KU got involved a couple months ago, then he commits to KU. Same thing happened last year with Rabb where every UA fan thought he was a lock and CAL had no business in the discussion but then lo and behold he commits to CAL.

Recruiting is a very fluid process, and often unpredictable, especially with high-level recruits. The JJ recruitment was not dissimilar to the Rabb recruitment in which there was a clear leader(s), and then all of a sudden, someone swoops in and takes all of the momentum.

The problem with sites like PGU is that they speak in absolutes, such as "Josh Jackson is going to Arizona" (someone confirm with me that PGU claimed that JJ actually gave a "silent commitment" to UofA). Most reputable sites gauge the interest of the recruit, report on who currently leads, but also adds caveats that it could change. It's their job, and recruiting is not a spectator sport.

 

[DWKB]

Recruiting is a very fluid process, and often unpredictable, especially with high-level recruits. The JJ recruitment was not dissimilar to the Rabb recruitment in which there was a clear leader(s), and then all of a sudden, someone swoops in and takes all of the momentum.

The problem with sites like PGU is that they speak in absolutes, such as "Josh Jackson is going to Arizona" (someone confirm with me that PGU claimed that JJ actually gave a "silent commitment" to UofA). Most reputable sites gauge the interest of the recruit, report on who currently leads, but also adds caveats that it could change. It's their job, and recruiting is not a spectator sport.

See my post above. We didn't just "swoop in", we were the original leaders. Hindsight shows that an open position and Selden declaring had a lot to do with the final decision.

In regards to the general discussion of recruits, I agree with overseas. That a site reports who currently leads, but also allows an escape caveat in case they are wrong (and often are wrong) adds little IMO.

 

[TJ]

See my post above. We didn't just "swoop in", we were the original leaders. Hindsight shows that an open position and Selden declaring had a lot to do with the final decision.

KU was an afterthought about a few months ago when UA and MSU were rumored to be the lead dogs. Oftentimes, the original school of interest is usually the one left hanging, but kudos to Self and co. for sticking with it.

 

[TJ]

Jerry Meyer – ‏@jerrymeyer247

Terrance Ferguson tweets he will announce this week. No more visits. Arizona strongest in #CrystalBall. http://bit.ly/1qmZWeQ
247Sports

If TF commits to AZ it would likely leapfrog them over UCONN, MSU and UCLA to #3 ranked class.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Russ Smith]

Usually where there is smoke, there is fire. People speculated he was a near lock to UA at the beginning of the year, then MSU made it a 2 school race until KU got involved a couple months ago, then he commits to KU. Same thing happened last year with Rabb where every UA fan thought he was a lock and CAL had no business in the discussion but then lo and behold he commits to CAL.

Yeah but I think you look at it from the perspective of a UA fan where I look at it from the perspective of someone else. It was well known Rabb's mom wanted him to stay home, she said so repeatedly. It was also well known she didn't want him to just follow the leader and be the latest O'Dowd kid to transfer to Findlay, or the latest Soldier to go to Arizona. She was quite outspoken about that but UA fans were being told by "insiders" like Ace and 97Cats that was just smoke. It wasn't, the mom was tired of her son being commpared to Brandon Ashley, not that they disliked Ashley they just didn't want everyone to assume they were goign to do the same thing Ashley did.

So they turned down repeated advances by Findlay. He certainly liked Arizona but I think it was somewhat similar to Solomon Hill committing to SC because UA had no viable coach and then flipping as soon as UA hired a real coach. I think Rabb intended to go to Cal he just wanted to know who the coach was going to be because it was apparent Monty was close to retirement. I actually think he winds up at Cal even if they had hired monty's top assistant or possibly even Russell Turner instead of Martin.

I think the plan was for Jackson to go to the new prepschool then go play in China. At some point they decided China wasn't the best route so then he started looking at colleges and he had a big list that included a bunch of Adidas and Nike teams and at one point had Under Armour too(Maryland). He wound up with 2 Nike schools and 1 Adidas, picked Kansas and people want to say it was Adidas, but had he gone to UA or MSU nobody would have said it was Nike.

People say it was obvious his HS had an Adidas sponsorship etc, the kid played for Team USA which is so Nike it ought to be against the rules. Literally every coach, assistant, trainer, ballboy they are ALL Nike coaches. The players wear all Nike gear, a foreign kid literally was banned from playing for Serbia(?) because he signed an Adidas contract. Jackson just played in the Nike Hoop Summit. Much of the Adidas stuff came about because Jackson pulled out of the Jordan Brand Classic but they explained that right away, his HS was on spring Break for the McDonalds game so he didn't miss any school but he'd have missed a full week of school if he attended the Jordan Brand and his mom decided against it. He only missed a couple of days to play in the Nike Hoop Summit so they just did that.

Stuff changes, Kobi Simmons was a lock to Ohio State not that long ago, everyone thought Alkins was going to NC State or St Johns etc. Jaylen Brown was going to UCLA or Kentucky but wound up at Cal etc.

 

[Russ Smith]

Jerry Meyer – ‏@jerrymeyer247

Terrance Ferguson tweets he will announce this week. No more visits. Arizona strongest in #CrystalBall. http://bit.ly/1qmZWeQ
247Sports

If TF commits to AZ it would likely leapfrog them over UCONN, MSU and UCLA to #3 ranked class.

I think that's going to be a VERY interesting dynamic assuming he picks Arizona.

Jackson to me made sense, he's big enough and good enough to play quite a bit of 4 at the college level if he had to. he's also a great passer so you can play him with Alkins and Trier and not worry about chemistry. I don't see Ferguson as the same, he's smaller, not nearly as strong, his game is all 3 pointers or dunks on the break and he's not nearly as "tough" as Jackson is inside. I don't think you can play Ferguson at the 4 very much if at all.

So now you have 4 kids all 5 star, 1 a soph 3 freshman ostensibly competing for 3 spots. I really wonder if any of those 4 has the right mindset to come off the bench? The problem is the only one of the four who's even remotely a PG is Simmons so he would almost start by default unless you start PJC or Allen and then TWO of the 4 elite kids has to come off the bench. If you can make it work like calipari did awesome I just don't know how it's going to work for Miller with this group.

Smith seems like a real unselfish kid and is probably now the backup 4 if you get Ferguson. I just don't know if Ferguson will be content as a backup 3 and that's my guess what happens because I'd be very surprised if he's ahead of Alkins.

Will be fun to watch, first world problems for sure but chemistry could be a real challenge.

 

[GatorAZ]

Yeah but I think you look at it from the perspective of a UA fan where I look at it from the perspective of someone else. It was well known Rabb's mom wanted him to stay home, she said so repeatedly. It was also well known she didn't want him to just follow the leader and be the latest O'Dowd kid to transfer to Findlay, or the latest Soldier to go to Arizona. She was quite outspoken about that but UA fans were being told by "insiders" like Ace and 97Cats that was just smoke. It wasn't, the mom was tired of her son being commpared to Brandon Ashley, not that they disliked Ashley they just didn't want everyone to assume they were goign to do the same thing Ashley did.

So they turned down repeated advances by Findlay. He certainly liked Arizona but I think it was somewhat similar to Solomon Hill committing to SC because UA had no viable coach and then flipping as soon as UA hired a real coach. I think Rabb intended to go to Cal he just wanted to know who the coach was going to be because it was apparent Monty was close to retirement. I actually think he winds up at Cal even if they had hired monty's top assistant or possibly even Russell Turner instead of Martin.

I think the plan was for Jackson to go to the new prepschool then go play in China. At some point they decided China wasn't the best route so then he started looking at colleges and he had a big list that included a bunch of Adidas and Nike teams and at one point had Under Armour too(Maryland). He wound up with 2 Nike schools and 1 Adidas, picked Kansas and people want to say it was Adidas, but had he gone to UA or MSU nobody would have said it was Nike.

People say it was obvious his HS had an Adidas sponsorship etc, the kid played for Team USA which is so Nike it ought to be against the rules. Literally every coach, assistant, trainer, ballboy they are ALL Nike coaches. The players wear all Nike gear, a foreign kid literally was banned from playing for Serbia(?) because he signed an Adidas contract. Jackson just played in the Nike Hoop Summit. Much of the Adidas stuff came about because Jackson pulled out of the Jordan Brand Classic but they explained that right away, his HS was on spring Break for the McDonalds game so he didn't miss any school but he'd have missed a full week of school if he attended the Jordan Brand and his mom decided against it. He only missed a couple of days to play in the Nike Hoop Summit so they just did that.

Stuff changes, Kobi Simmons was a lock to Ohio State not that long ago, everyone thought Alkins was going to NC State or St Johns etc. Jaylen Brown was going to UCLA or Kentucky but wound up at Cal etc.

Interesting info! Maybe 97 and Ace have the same source??

I always wonder what these "sources" get from leaking info... How close to the actual coaching staff are they?

I seem to remember the Scout guys claiming Miller himself was annoyed with Ace specifically. Coaches must hate "leaks" but that's the way it will always be in any sport at any level. It will never go away as long as ppl pay.