Miller once again does it again!

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,280
Reaction score
39,914
They're not landing any big fish until there's some kind of closure with the investigation. Maybe Miller can get a lower ranked kid like Sam Froling or a transfer. Akot and Randolph being a bit more raw than expected is a good thing because they should be back. Not sure if Akot is in the doghouse or injured but his game wasn't ready to reclassify.


They said Akot has jumpers knee in both knees which is pretty common at that age, I had it at that age too it hurts like hell. I've seen him more than once when he does play on the bench with ice onboth knees so I'm inclined to think that's legit.

Cherry plays for Brad Leaf now but I don't expect him to be involved with UCLA he's a Nike kid and with Wilkes likely staying at UCLA I don't see him picking us. My guess is SDSU or Gonzaga, SDSU is the local school and the Zags seem to do well with kids like that who are talented but need direction. I've heard multiple times that if UCLA had fired Alford after all the flying of banners stuff, TJ Leaf would have gone to SDSU or Indiana(not UCLA) and probably SDSU, so I'm guessing Brad Leaf will help them get Cherry.
 

overseascardfan

ASFN Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Posts
8,807
Reaction score
2,096
Location
Phoenix
What?!? You think the FBI is taking a break because it’s basketball season?!?
Have you heard anything since the season started???? There is a little over 2 months left in the season and since there is nothing that can be done at this point of the season, anything new or punishments levied will not be announced until after the NC game IMO. The NCAA is not trying to have the rest of the season impacted by this scandal, they probably have a deal with FBI to wait until after the season. The FBI is still investigating behind the scenes but they probably will not make anything public until they have everything which most likely not be in the next 2 months.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,280
Reaction score
39,914
What?!? You think the FBI is taking a break because it’s basketball season?!?

I assume he means that Arizona can't investigate until the FBI allows them to.They reportedly told Arizona and the NCAA to wait until they were done so as not to mess up the FBI investigation. That's presumably why Arizona hasn't done anything else on the 3 kids, and is playing all 3 and presumably just hoping the penalty for doing so won't be severe.

For whatever reason apaprently USC wasn't told the same thing, they helped Melton hire a lawyer and they found this tape that they thought was going to clear Melton, but then apparently found more dirt on him and ruled him ineligible. Arizona isn't doing that same digging right now.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
64,193
Reaction score
59,242
Location
SoCal
Have you heard anything since the season started???? There is a little over 2 months left in the season and since there is nothing that can be done at this point of the season, anything new or punishments levied will not be announced until after the NC game IMO. The NCAA is not trying to have the rest of the season impacted by this scandal, they probably have a deal with FBI to wait until after the season. The FBI is still investigating behind the scenes but they probably will not make anything public until they have everything which most likely not be in the next 2 months.
The FBI is law enforcement. They don’t make deals with NCAA. To even think that’s a possibility is absurd.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,280
Reaction score
39,914
FWIW LA TImes story this morning says unnamed sources have positively identified Taeshon Cherry as being player #8 in the FBI story. His family outright denies it and says he decommitted from USC because USC backed off him and stopped talking to him several weeks ago.

Of course they don't mention that Cherry had a scheduled signing party at his school to sign his NLI to USC, and then 3 days before it, he transferred to Foothills Christian HS and cancelled the party and wound up never signing with USC. I'm guessing that had something to do with USC backing off him.

So multiple sources say he's player #8, his family insists he's not. I'm still guessing SDSU or Gonzaga for him.
 

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
35,169
Reaction score
21,492
Location
South Bay
Quinnerly and Cherry will be headlining the Big Baller Brand league.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

The problem
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Posts
12,802
Reaction score
6,824
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
The FBI is law enforcement. They don’t make deals with NCAA. To even think that’s a possibility is absurd.
Especially when it's the NCAA and/or the shoe companies is ultimately the target of the investigation. The FBI isn't going to waste their time on nabbing a few coaches pocketing a couple thousand bucks, there's bigger fish out there.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,280
Reaction score
39,914
Especially when it's the NCAA and/or the shoe companies is ultimately the target of the investigation. The FBI isn't going to waste their time on nabbing a few coaches pocketing a couple thousand bucks, there's bigger fish out there.


I get what you mean but literally the first people to get indicted were the coaches.They only indicted them to get them to cooperate of course, they weren't the target you're right, but they're already indicted.

The NCAA is stuck now because the FBI is going after the big fish as you said and until they're done, they've told the NCAA not to investigate because they think it might harm the FBI investigation.

Schools that did their own investigations and brought information to the NCAA, like Alabama, were dealt with, schools that did their own investigations and decided to suspend players are still suspending them. And of course Arizona is the outlier here the only school that knows they have players mentioned in the FBI probe and is playing them.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

The problem
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Posts
12,802
Reaction score
6,824
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
I get what you mean but literally the first people to get indicted were the coaches.They only indicted them to get them to cooperate of course, they weren't the target you're right, but they're already indicted.

The NCAA is stuck now because the FBI is going after the big fish as you said and until they're done, they've told the NCAA not to investigate because they think it might harm the FBI investigation.

Schools that did their own investigations and brought information to the NCAA, like Alabama, were dealt with, schools that did their own investigations and decided to suspend players are still suspending them. And of course Arizona is the outlier here the only school that knows they have players mentioned in the FBI probe and is playing them.
This of course is misleading. Just because certain schools did their own investigations doesn't mean they've been dealt with by the NCAA and/or the FBI. But again it's not the schools the FBI wants.

As I've said from the beginning I'm guessing more or less nothing comes from this, at worst a one year postseason ban. But I can see how it fits you and the rest of the conference's wet dreams that the whole thing will come crashing down even though it's extremely hypocritical if not self-defeating.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,280
Reaction score
39,914
This of course is misleading. Just because certain schools did their own investigations doesn't mean they've been dealt with by the NCAA and/or the FBI. But again it's not the schools the FBI wants.

As I've said from the beginning I'm guessing more or less nothing comes from this, at worst a one year postseason ban. But I can see how it fits you and the rest of the conference's wet dreams that the whole thing will come crashing down even though it's extremely hypocritical if not self-defeating.


I meant for example Alabama and Sexton who got suspended and then reinstated first by Alabama and then the NCAA. Auburn has some kids they suspended they're still waiting on. USC does too. Louisville self suspended too.

it's not misleading to say Arizona is the only team involved that hasn't done this, it's true, they are literally the only school who had players mentioned in the FBI story that didn't self suspend.

That doesn't mean theyr'e wrong, they may be right those kids may be innocent, they may be smarter than all the other schools but the fact is they're the only school that did not take any suspensions of players, just a coach, Book.

I don't know what the outcome will be. My guess is that the 2 guys who talked to an agent and said they were willing to sign, but apparently took no money, will get the same suspension Sexton did, which was only 1 game. My guess is the kid who already took money and is now playing will get a longer suspension, somewhere between 3 and 9 games depending on how much money he actually got since that wasn't detailed in the story. OF course the key question is will that be it or will the NCAA tack on more because he was allowed to play and because he filed paperwork with the school and the NCAA stating he hadn't violated amateur status when in fact he had. We don't really know what the NCAA will do there it's sort of new territory.

Arizona may well be right in their approach of roll the dice play them all and see what the NCAA does. But let's be clear they are in fact the only school doing that approach, if it works they're geniuses, if it doesn't they're going to get hit harder than any other school because they did it.

List the names of the kids involved in the FBI scandal and then see how many of them are either at Arizona, committed to arizona or had arizona in the final 2. I count at least 7, the 3 on the current roster, the recruit, and Bowen, Little and Cherry. That's 7 kids in 3 classes, that seems like a pretty high ratio but maybe that's the norm it's just not normally caught by the FBI so we don't hear about it.
 

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
35,169
Reaction score
21,492
Location
South Bay

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,280
Reaction score
39,914
Not that I think it's going to happen but apparently Brandon Williams was the only top 100 recruit contacted by Lavar Ball who indicated he might be interested in playing in Lavars proposed league for kids who don't want to go to college for one year. Williams basically said he wants to keep his options open, and I don't for a minute think Lavar will actually get the league going I think it's entirely to give Gelo and Melo a place to play in the US and it's not going to happen.

Williams is apparently averaging over 30 PPG with a 52 point game since he started playing for Crespi this year.
 

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
35,169
Reaction score
21,492
Location
South Bay
Not that I think it's going to happen but apparently Brandon Williams was the only top 100 recruit contacted by Lavar Ball who indicated he might be interested in playing in Lavars proposed league for kids who don't want to go to college for one year. Williams basically said he wants to keep his options open, and I don't for a minute think Lavar will actually get the league going I think it's entirely to give Gelo and Melo a place to play in the US and it's not going to happen.

Williams is apparently averaging over 30 PPG with a 52 point game since he started playing for Crespi this year.
If Miller is gone, he’s gone. If Miller stays, he stays.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,280
Reaction score
39,914
If Miller is gone, he’s gone. If Miller stays, he stays.


I assume that's true of Williams and Shareef, but one also gets the impression that at least with Williams, it's if Arizona is on probation he's gone, if they're not, he goes to Arizona.

Not clear when or if all that's going to be decided since the NCAA has to wait for the FBI to give them the evidence.

I don't think Lavar has a chance in hell of getting this league off the ground but it does at least somewhat suggest that Williams is considering other options
 

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
35,169
Reaction score
21,492
Location
South Bay
Well, well, well.....

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
35,169
Reaction score
21,492
Location
South Bay
It was always odd to me that people thought this would be a huge deal.

Well, it did torpedo our recruiting class and leave uncertainty in the minds of future prospects. Miller just started recruiting heavy again last weekend. Perhaps that means he's more confident in the outcome of the investigation???

At this point, it's been five months since the arrests and publication of the complaint and there has been nothing of substance since. We were told that dozens of other schools would be implicated and that the schools initially caught were only the tip of the iceberg. There have been no leaks and no signs of progress. The news of the compromised agent is the most significant thing we've heard since September 26th.

My feeling is that in the end, this will be a nothingburger, but Arizona should, in good faith, self-impose a two-scholarship reduction for next season and call it a day with the NCAA.
 
Last edited:

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
35,169
Reaction score
21,492
Location
South Bay
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

This FBI investigation is dying a slow death. The vibe around UofA is more optimistic than it was before. Not sure how coincidental it is that Miller has upped his recruiting efforts of late for 18 and 19.

I cannot believe how irresponsible the FBI was in this matter.
 

GatorAZ

feed hopkins
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Posts
25,649
Reaction score
18,651
Location
The Giant Toaster
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

This FBI investigation is dying a slow death. The vibe around UofA is more optimistic than it was before. Not sure how coincidental it is that Miller has upped his recruiting efforts of late for 18 and 19.

I cannot believe how irresponsible the FBI was in this matter.

Still will likely nuke two recruiting classes b/c of the stigma. Meanwhile Quinerly announcing his school on Wednesday.
 

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
35,169
Reaction score
21,492
Location
South Bay
Still will likely nuke two recruiting classes b/c of the stigma. Meanwhile Quinerly announcing his school on Wednesday.

Should be fine for 2019. We lead for Green and Nico might reclassify to 2019.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,280
Reaction score
39,914
It was always odd to me that people thought this would be a huge deal.


Because the idea that players get paid is not new and we all knew that, but the idea that players were getting paid by coaches, that's out of the norm. That's what made this case different that it involved assistant coaches, and in the Louisville situation their head coach.

And of course the other reason is this wasn't the NCAA, it was the FBI. They don't have any sacred cows to protect, if they have evidence they're going to pursue it no matter what. They're not concerned about damaging the product the way the NCAA is, they're just following the money.

I have no idea how it's all going to turn out but i seriously doubt the FBI case is going to fall apart because one guy was misusing funds. The Feds have access that the NCAA never gets, the perfect example was Bazz. The NCAA was on him for years, they were positive the dad was getting paid under the table, and in the end they cleared him because they couldn't prove anything despite clearly being convinced the day was living beyond his means and had to be getting paid.

And then the feds got involved and found out the dad was committing mortgage fraud, and the dad admitted under oath he also took out a loan using Bazz' NBA future as collateral. The NCAA hounded that family for nearly 2 years and found nothing, and had to drop the case because their investigator told her boyfriend they were going to get him(bazz). The FBi just doesn't work that way, they can't get permission to use wiretaps on just innuendo, they have burdens of proof they have to meet in order to get that stuff. Their conviction rate is VERY high, it's very unusual for the FBI to do something like this and in the end be wrong about the case.

So the safe assumption here is that what the FBI said was happening, happened. Shoe companies were paying for kids to go to certain schools, the agent was paying money to assistant coaches to get kids, and to steer those kids to certain agents and financial advisors. The only question is how much more have they found that we don't know about yet, and how severely will the NCAA go after those schools when/if they get the evidence from the FBI?

We don't know the answer yet. I think many people expected the coaches to roll over and give up names and that stuff would come out during the season, it appears that hasn't happened, but it's still had a huge impact IMO. Arizona had the best recruiting class in the country in the process when this came out, they now have 2 recruits, one of whom is really not that good he just happens to have a famous dad and be friends with a bunch of highly rated kids(Williams, Bol among them) who were going to Arizona. USC has lost key members of its class too.

The schools involved have all been hurt. I also strongly believe both USc and ARizona's seasons have been hurt, they'd both have been better without this case hanging over their heads, and in USC's case costing them Melton.

Are those 2 schools getting the death penalty, pretty unlikely, but has this case significantly impacted both programs yes, is there likely to be further impact, yes.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,280
Reaction score
39,914
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

This FBI investigation is dying a slow death. The vibe around UofA is more optimistic than it was before. Not sure how coincidental it is that Miller has upped his recruiting efforts of late for 18 and 19.

I cannot believe how irresponsible the FBI was in this matter.


That story has been discussed at length on BRO, we have a former Federal Prosecutor who posts there and he says in these cases lawyers almost ALWAYS ask the judge to dismiss it claiming there was some issue with the wiretap or the warrant was too broad, that's defense 101 when your client is under FBI investigation. It's apparently pretty rare the judge actually agrees.

If you read the story you linked it says exactly what this guy on BRO said was probably happening, the Feds are asking the charges to be dropped against Augustine not because he's not guilty, but because the FBI is negotiating a plea deal with him and part of that deal is he cooperates, they drop the charges. If you read it says of the 10 arrested, only 2 have not had federal charges filed against them, Augustine, and Munish Sood, and in both cases it's widely assumed the FBI has plea deals in the works with those guys. So they're not dropping charges because they don't have evidence, they're dropping charges because those guys are agreeing to work with them.

I would guess the reason Miller is upping his recruiting efforts is he needs to rebuild the 18 class, and it's at the right time to be locking in on the 19 class. The FBI story is still there, just the other day Gershon told us for example he thinks UCLA leads for Stanley almost entirely because the dad is concerned about USC and Arizona's involvement in the FBI scandal. He's 19 and trying to move up to 18.

Mannion will be interesting, if you haven't seen it in another board thread an ASFN poster a few months ago said his son attends HS with Mannion and that word in that school is Mannion has a silent verbal to Kansas. With the story out yesterday that it's arizona, UCLA, Duke and Kentucky leading for him, it'll be interesting to see which is true.
 
Top