Miller once again does it again!

[82CardsGrad]

Romar better recognize that Ayton is the best player on the court moving forward. Lack of touches down the stretch was killer. I get all the distractions and such, but we had that game.

Incredible game by Ayton... Alkins, aside from that stupid foul, was huge as well... but boy did they miss Trier in this game...

 

[Cheesebeef]

I was surprised Bilas was so fired up given his defense of Pitino. Since it was an ESPN story it makes sense though. Laphonso Ellis seemed to be the only guy who called it speculation and that he’ll wait for it to play out.

yeah, dude... I heard on the radio yesterday practically felating Pitino. It was ridiculous compared to his reaction for miller.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Miller is a fighter and has all of the leverage. I’d like to see him bring the house (NCAA and ESPN) down

 

[TJ]

Miller is a fighter and has all of the leverage. I’d like to see him bring the house (NCAA and ESPN) down

Honestly, I’m Not sure how much leverage he has. His career is in jeopardy, half the UofA fans have turned on him, and he’s the figurehead of this investigation for the time being. Miller probably won’t be coaching in Arizona anymore, but if he truly thinks he has a case, I would love for him to go after ESPN and the NCAA.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Miller is a fighter and has all of the leverage. I’d like to see him bring the house (NCAA and ESPN) down

What leverage?!? The man is hanging by a thread.

 

[GatorAZ]

Honestly, I’m Not sure how much leverage he has. His career is in jeopardy, half the UofA fans have turned on him, and he’s the figurehead of this investigation for the time being. Miller probably won’t be coaching in Arizona anymore, but if he truly thinks he has a case, I would love for him to go after ESPN and the NCAA.

It comes back to Miller being irresponsible enough to actually discuss payments with an agent directly. It’s just hard to imagine he did.

If there’s proof then nobody would be disputing it but the ESPN story referenced a phone call without actual transcripts. When the Yahoo bomb dropped they posted actual pictures of the documents with specific names and numbers. Schlabach has either seen or heard the transcripts or he’s really trusts his sources.

 

[Russ Smith]

I was surprised Bilas was so fired up given his defense of Pitino. Since it was an ESPN story it makes sense though. Laphonso Ellis seemed to be the only guy who called it speculation and that he’ll wait for it to play out.

My thing is the only way Miller is vindicated is if there is no such tape.

Play it out, suppose Ayton did NOT get the money. So Ayton's eligible, that still doesn't even remotely vindicate Miller.

If there is a tape, again if, then the entire defense that Book was a rogue coach is gone, they would still have Miller on tape talking about trying to get a player paid so they can sign him. You have him on tape telling the agent he knew nothing about, to work directly with Miller not Book, which would prove he knew what Book was doing with the agent. You have teh Yahoo story that says Book offered Alkins to the agent to try and get Bowen, and Pasternack offered Lauri to the agent to try and close on Bowen too.

So even if DeAndre Ayton is completely innocent here(or his parents), you would still have a program where the head coach and top 2 assistants were dealing directly with an agent, trying to buy players, and had steered at least 2 current players to an agent to try and curry the favor of the agent. That's the definition of a lack of Institutional Control. Completely remove Ayton and you still have a IF that taped call is real, Arizona's program is going to get hammered.

I also don't get the idea TJ put out that ESPN would be sued and have to produce the tape, ESPN never said they have the tape, they said the FBI has the tape. Given the FBI case hasn't closed yet I think it's HIGHLY unlikely ESPN has the tape or even a copy of it, it's part of an active FBI case.

Miller could certainly sue over it, you can sue over anything, but unless that tape doesn't exist, or Miller doesn't actually in any way make it clear he knows who Dawkins is, what Book is doing with Dawkins etc, even if Ayton is clear and free, Miller and ARizona are in big trouble if that tape exists

 

[Russ Smith]

yeah, dude... I heard on the radio yesterday practically felating Pitino. It was ridiculous compared to his reaction for miller.

I suspect there's an element of ESPN broke the story so ESPN employees are going to defend it. But I also suspect there's an element of they know the guy who did the report, they know the policy of ESPN about vetting stories before they get released, and they're pretty confident of the source.

With Bilas(he's a lawyer) I suspect he defended Pitino early on because he just couldn't believe a coach would be that stupid, and now he's got a sunk cost of defending him so he's still defending him even though it looks more and more likely Pitino did what the FBI says he did.

Bilas was also vehemently defending Wendell Carter yesterday. Did people see the story on how Duke got him cleared? Coach K says the mom called him concerned and then explained to Coach K what happened. She and her husband had been introduced to Dawkins "through a friend". We innocently met with him to have dinner, Wendell knew nothing about it. My husband immediately didn't like Dawkins, and left the restaurant. I'm a southern woman so I'm more polite than my husband but I didn't like him either so I politely excused myself and left too. Neither of us ate any food.

Based on that Duke contacted the NCAA, the parents signed paperwork stating they never ate anything so the agent didn't really provide them with a free meal, and the NCAA said based on the information they have(which is just the parents story), there was no violation.

It's the most obviously framed story to make the parents look like saints and completely avoids the point of why would they agree to have dinner with an agent before their son had even entered college? And Bilas is on air crowing about how Duke is clean.

 

[GatorAZ]

My thing is the only way Miller is vindicated is if there is no such tape.

Play it out, suppose Ayton did NOT get the money. So Ayton's eligible, that still doesn't even remotely vindicate Miller.

If there is a tape, again if, then the entire defense that Book was a rogue coach is gone, they would still have Miller on tape talking about trying to get a player paid so they can sign him. You have him on tape telling the agent he knew nothing about, to work directly with Miller not Book, which would prove he knew what Book was doing with the agent. You have teh Yahoo story that says Book offered Alkins to the agent to try and get Bowen, and Pasternack offered Lauri to the agent to try and close on Bowen too.

So even if DeAndre Ayton is completely innocent here(or his parents), you would still have a program where the head coach and top 2 assistants were dealing directly with an agent, trying to buy players, and had steered at least 2 current players to an agent to try and curry the favor of the agent. That's the definition of a lack of Institutional Control. Completely remove Ayton and you still have a IF that taped call is real, Arizona's program is going to get hammered.

I also don't get the idea TJ put out that ESPN would be sued and have to produce the tape, ESPN never said they have the tape, they said the FBI has the tape. Given the FBI case hasn't closed yet I think it's HIGHLY unlikely ESPN has the tape or even a copy of it, it's part of an active FBI case.

Miller could certainly sue over it, you can sue over anything, but unless that tape doesn't exist, or Miller doesn't actually in any way make it clear he knows who Dawkins is, what Book is doing with Dawkins etc, even if Ayton is clear and free, Miller and ARizona are in big trouble if that tape exists

Not calling Schlabach a liar or irresponsible. He’s a good reporter that isn’t going to report this unless Miller and Dawkins did indeed talk and the 100k was discussed. But them discussing it could mean anything from Miller downright saying let’s get Ayton the money to telling the agent to f*ck off after even the mention of money. Schlabach is covered either way because both scenarios would technically back up his story It would just be the context in question. If there were transcripts of Miller and Dawkins actually discussing getting Ayton’s family 100k then you’d think the article would be more specific than hearsay.

 

[GatorAZ]

I suspect there's an element of ESPN broke the story so ESPN employees are going to defend it. But I also suspect there's an element of they know the guy who did the report, they know the policy of ESPN about vetting stories before they get released, and they're pretty confident of the source.

With Bilas(he's a lawyer) I suspect he defended Pitino early on because he just couldn't believe a coach would be that stupid, and now he's got a sunk cost of defending him so he's still defending him even though it looks more and more likely Pitino did what the FBI says he did.

Bilas was also vehemently defending Wendell Carter yesterday. Did people see the story on how Duke got him cleared? Coach K says the mom called him concerned and then explained to Coach K what happened. She and her husband had been introduced to Dawkins "through a friend". We innocently met with him to have dinner, Wendell knew nothing about it. My husband immediately didn't like Dawkins, and left the restaurant. I'm a southern woman so I'm more polite than my husband but I didn't like him either so I politely excused myself and left too. Neither of us ate any food.

Based on that Duke contacted the NCAA, the parents signed paperwork stating they never ate anything so the agent didn't really provide them with a free meal, and the NCAA said based on the information they have(which is just the parents story), there was no violation.

It's the most obviously framed story to make the parents look like saints and completely avoids the point of why would they agree to have dinner with an agent before their son had even entered college? And Bilas is on air crowing about how Duke is clean.

Good point. If it’s a Yahoo! story I doubt Dick Vitale is having an on air aneurysm about it. Btw how happy are K, Roy, Cal, Self and Izzo that the Miller bombshell dropped?

 

[TJ]

What in the name of Pop McKale is going on??!!

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[MaoTosiFanClub]

Way to make a personal attack jackass. This far we’ve addressed the substance of your posts and the accuracy or lack thereof. But you need to take to calling names.

Here's exact insults from you and your brother said directly to either TJ or I before my post that you guys are crying about:

homer
sanctimonius
delusional
head in the sand
pompous windbags
Hannity/Nunes
Trump fan

If I wanted to hit below the belt I easily could have. I did say you both aren't very knowledgeable understanding the nuance of these reports, history of similar NCAA investigations, and what defines success in college basketball. And I called you both mouth breathers yes.

Please address the substance of my posts then. Do you really think Arizona or anyone else is going to face major sanctions beyond what I said was likely from the beginning (1 year postseason ban, vacated wins, couple scholarship losses) which in reality is small potatoes? Do you really think a coach who's won 5 of the last 9 Pac-12 championships is not a good coach?

Am I going to get that or another one sentence "I told you so, you're delusional" post? Let me know on those and until then you and your brother can stop crying about me picking on you when you've both been running your mouths from the beginning.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

What in the name of Pop McKale is going on??!!

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ESPN is in trouble

 

[GatorAZ]

-Ayton committed in September of 16’
-Ayton signed his LOI in November of 16’
-Alleged wiretap conversation between Miller and Dawkins talking payment for Ayton in June of 2017

Is Miller really implicating himself on tape to steer Ayton to an agency once he hits the league?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Miller is a fighter and has all of the leverage. I’d like to see him bring the house (NCAA and ESPN) down

He has zero leverage. I will say there's a big difference though between someone tweeting 'fake news' and saying the same thing under oath. At the same time Arizona has to part ways with him even in the infinitely small chance he's 100% innocent.

IF the Ayton thing is false then this kind of reminds me of the Mike Leach situation at Texas Tech. While no saint what eventually brought him down turned out to be mostly BS, but Leach was able to get another job because the James scandal was exaggerated if not mostly false. If the Ayton-100k thing is true Miller will never again work in college sports. He's done at Arizona regardless but if it turns out to be false he will coach again somewhere soon. Just the Book allegations on their own are easily survivable in college sports, the Ayton allegations are career ending.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Here's exact insults from you and your brother said directly to either TJ or I before my post that you guys are crying about:

homer
sanctimonius
delusional
head in the sand
pompous windbags
Hannity/Nunes
Trump fan

If I wanted to hit below the belt I easily could have. I did say you both aren't very knowledgeable understanding the nuance of these reports, history of similar NCAA investigations, and what defines success in college basketball. And I called you both mouth breathers yes.

Please address the substance of my posts then. Do you really think Arizona or anyone else is going to face major sanctions beyond what I said was likely from the beginning (1 year postseason ban, vacated wins, couple scholarship losses) which in reality is small potatoes? Do you really think a coach who's won 5 of the last 9 Pac-12 championships is not a good coach?

Am I going to get that or another one sentence "I told you so, you're delusional" post? Let me know on those and until then you and your brother can stop crying about me picking on you when you've both been running your mouths from the beginning.

In my defense... I’ve been Lol’ing much more than crying.

Sincerely,

The Mouth Breather

p.s. for the umpteeth time, Miller is a GOOD coach. He’s not a GREAT coach, IMO. (ALL CAPS USED FOR EMPHASIS SO YOU DONT MISS THE DISTINCTION THIS TIME AFTER DOING SO FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS)

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

He has zero leverage. I will say there's a big difference though between someone tweeting 'fake news' and saying the same thing under oath. At the same time Arizona has to part ways with him even in the infinitely small chance he's 100% innocent.

IF the Ayton thing is false then this kind of reminds me of the Mike Leach situation at Texas Tech. While no saint what eventually brought him down turned out to be mostly BS, but Leach was able to get another job because the James scandal was exaggerated if not mostly false. If the Ayton-100k thing is true Miller will never again work in college sports. He's done at Arizona regardless but if it turns out to be false he will coach again somewhere soon. Just the Book allegations on their own are easily survivable in college sports, the Ayton allegations are career ending.

He has leverage on the Uviversity with his contract and he has leverage on the NCAA because he could reveal everything he knows and make a scene. He doesn’t strike me as a quitter and doesn’t seem like the type of guy who would allow his family name to be destroyed (Archie was an assistant coach during the investigation).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Here's exact insults from you and your brother said directly to either TJ or I before my post that you guys are crying about:

homer
sanctimonius
delusional
head in the sand
pompous windbags
Hannity/Nunes
Trump fan

If I wanted to hit below the belt I easily could have. I did say you both aren't very knowledgeable understanding the nuance of these reports, history of similar NCAA investigations, and what defines success in college basketball. And I called you both mouth breathers yes.

Please address the substance of my posts then. Do you really think Arizona or anyone else is going to face major sanctions beyond what I said was likely from the beginning (1 year postseason ban, vacated wins, couple scholarship losses) which in reality is small potatoes? Do you really think a coach who's won 5 of the last 9 Pac-12 championships is not a good coach?

Am I going to get that or another one sentence "I told you so, you're delusional" post? Let me know on those and until then you and your brother can stop crying about me picking on you when you've both been running your mouths from the beginning.

I DO think the program is going to get hit worse than the slap in the wrist you believe to the case if the smoking tapes are real. That’s the very definition of loss of institutional control - multiple coaches, including the head coach, multiple players, te PEDs thing with Trier. Dude if the tapes are real Arizona is bleeding profusely.

And you’re projecting my brothers thoughts on Miller on me. I think he’s a superb defensive coach. I think he’s an awful x’s and o’s offensive coach. But mostly I thought he was great for the program due to his recruiting. But, well, that’s looking lame at the present if he had to buy his talent. And you can argue that everybody does it, but I don’t think it’s everybody and you can’t prove otherwise, and if everyone does it doesn’t it just come down to dollars? In which case it’s more the bank at his beck and call than superior coaching. And I do think he chokes in the biggest games. I think he gets too tightly wound and it bleeds over to his team. So I think he’s an very good college coach but not great.

And you can think this season isn’t a bust but bust is all relative. I’m willing to bet that anyone viewing this season, from opening expectations to now, would view this season as a bust. Except, apparently, you. I’m curious how you characterize this season?

Note - I deleted anything personal. It’s just enough of that at this point. The truth will play out. And whoever hasn’t been right or who has will become obvious.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

ESPN is in trouble

They could’ve seen a transcript or heard from a verifiable reliable source. They needn’t have heard a tape to be able to report to this.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not calling Schlabach a liar or irresponsible. He’s a good reporter that isn’t going to report this unless Miller and Dawkins did indeed talk and the 100k was discussed. But them discussing it could mean anything from Miller downright saying let’s get Ayton the money to telling the agent to f*ck off after even the mention of money. Schlabach is covered either way because both scenarios would technically back up his story It would just be the context in question. If there were transcripts of Miller and Dawkins actually discussing getting Ayton’s family 100k then you’d think the article would be more specific than hearsay.

Well if the tape is what ESPN says they know it wasn't Miller telling the guy to get lost because he actually told him don't deal with Book deal with me.

My point is the idea that Book was a rogue coach is completely out the window now if that tape actually exists.

Miller was talking to the agent that claimed he had free access to the Arizona program and his players, he can't now say it was just Book.

Jason Terry(who ironically took money himself) deleted his tweet saying they need to clean house but Iggy went right after Miller and tweeted "and Book got the cuffs?"

I don't know who did what but I still say unless the tape is not actually real, even if Ayton didn't get the money it does not matter, Sean Miller is gone.

What a nutty season

 

[Russ Smith]

What in the name of Pop McKale is going on??!!

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Scheer has been throwing stuff against the wall since the first story broke hoping something sticks.

read the actual story, ESPN never said they heard the tapes or listened to transcripts.

"FBI wiretaps intercepted telephone conversations between Arizona coach Sean Miller and Christian Dawkins, a key figure in the FBI's investigation into college basketball corruption, in which Miller discussed paying $100,000 to ensure star freshman Deandre Ayton signed with the Wildcats, sources familiar with the government's evidence told ESPN.

According to people with knowledge of the FBI investigation, Miller and Dawkins, a runner working for ASM Sports agent Andy Miller, had multiple conversations about Ayton. When Dawkins asked Sean Miller if he should work with assistant coach Emanuel "Book" Richardson to finalize their agreement, Miller told Dawkins he should deal directly with him when it came to money, the sources said."


Where in there does it say ESPN heard the tapes or read the transcripts? They very clearly said sources familiar with the evidence told them what's in it. That's why when you guys started saying Miller should sue them and demand the tape it made no sense, ESPN never said they had the tape.

But great find by Scheer, his sources did a great job of proving ESPN hadn't done something ESPN never claimed they'd done.

 

[Russ Smith]

ESPN is in trouble

Argh, Come on in this age of snippets and sound bites does nobody actually read the stories anymore?

They NEVER said they had heard the tapes or read transcripts, not once.

And Scheer is going on and on about ESPN writing a story just citing sources and then he writes a story for Wildcat Authority saying Arizona might challenge ESPN's story and he uses the phrase sources indicate 5 times in his own story.

 

[Russ Smith]

-Ayton committed in September of 16’
-Ayton signed his LOI in November of 16’
-Alleged wiretap conversation between Miller and Dawkins talking payment for Ayton in June of 2017

Is Miller really implicating himself on tape to steer Ayton to an agency once he hits the league?

I don't know if he misspoke and means 2016 not 2017 or not. But remember, the FBI got involved in this in 2014, they've been wiretapping Dawkins for quite awhile, both after he got fired by ASM, and also before when he worked for ASM(and another agency which is part of why he got fired).

It's entirely possible Schlabach screwed up there, or maybe they promised Ayton money to sign, he signed, and they were talking about the logistics of when they were going to pay him?

Jalen Rose made that point after Augustine got charges dropped he said people doing this are intentionally using middlemen and 3rd parties and they often promise a kid money that he doesn't get until a later date. It's entirely possible the reason they are so sure Ayton hasn't got paid is he hasn't, yet.

 

[GatorAZ]

Well if the tape is what ESPN says they know it wasn't Miller telling the guy to get lost because he actually told him don't deal with Book deal with me.

My point is the idea that Book was a rogue coach is completely out the window now if that tape actually exists.

Miller was talking to the agent that claimed he had free access to the Arizona program and his players, he can't now say it was just Book.

Jason Terry(who ironically took money himself) deleted his tweet saying they need to clean house but Iggy went right after Miller and tweeted "and Book got the cuffs?"

I don't know who did what but I still say unless the tape is not actually real, even if Ayton didn't get the money it does not matter, Sean Miller is gone.

What a nutty season

There’s nothing implicating Miller in telling an agent not to deal with an assistant and dealing with me.

 

[Russ Smith]

There’s nothing implicating Miller in telling an agent not to deal with an assistant and dealing with me.

it indicates he knows Dawkins is working with Book and he's telling him no work with me directly. He can't then say Book was going rogue I had no knowledge this was happening.

Also if you go through all this stuff some of the original story was misunderstood because we didn't have all the info. Book was apparently working with Dawkins long before the March 2017 timeline in the original story. He was working with Dawkins before Dawkins got fired by ASM. After that, Dawkins and Sood were trying to start their own agency, ironically bankrolled by Andy Miller, and Dawkins and Book hooked up again, with Book being introduced to Sood the financial adviser.

It's not clear from what ESPN wrote whether the call with Sean Miller happened with Dawkins working on his own agency, or when he was working for ASM. The FBI started this in 2014 with another guy, that led them to Dawkins who led them to ASM and EYBL etc. I honestly don't know how long the FBI has been wiretapping Dawkins but it's quite possible it goes back to before Ayton signed.

If Schlabach really screwed up then yeah he's going to get fired and get sued and ESPN will be in lots of trouble but given the way ESPN almost as a whole jumped on this story it sure seems to me they're convinced that story was vetted.