Miller once again does it again!

[GatorAZ]

1 minute ago I went to the ESPN site and found the story, dated 2/25, that clear as day says the player involved is DeAndre Ayton. His name is mentioned repeatedly in the story. It has additional stuff added at the end about Rovell's take on the contract, which has been rebutted by Arizona media, and yet was apparently revised today when they decided NOT to fire Miller.

They did change the timeline, as mentioned above, they've now changed it back to 2017, they did not change from Ayton to unnamed 5 star recruit. That came from one of those crawls at the bottom of the screen.

Forgot to add if you read the story now the title says to "lock in" Ayton at Arizona, which could mean they're now claiming Miller talked to Ayton because they were afraid he was going to leave like Ferguson did.

Dawkins being in connection with Ayton is new to ppl who followed the recruitment. With another timeline change this has become incredibly embarrassing for ESPN.

 

[gmabel830]

Man, a lot has changed since we landed Rondae Hollis-Jefferson in 2012.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Russ Smith]

Dawkins being in connection with Ayton is new to ppl who followed the recruitment. With another timeline change this has become incredibly embarrassing for ESPN.

I get that point but again look at the timeline. IF they were in fact talking about Ayton obviously he'd already committed, and may have even been on campus. Which is why getting him locked down, not signed, is relevant. If it was Ayton in that timeframe, the most obvious answer is Miller was afraid Ayton was going to what Terrance Ferguson did and go pro, so he was confirming with Dawkins that a deal for money was in place. Why Dawkins? Because Dawkins was being funded by Andy Miller, and if they needed money to pay a player, you do it through a 3rd party and ASM sports is the perfect example of such a 3rd party.

Right now I don't have a clue what happened, I said originally it amazed me Miller would be dumb enough to do this, I also think it makes no sense for ESPN to dig in this much if they at all think it's possible they're wrong. The SI story quoted earlier is still going off the old timeline so the entire point of the story is wrong since ESPN has gone back to the original 2017 timeline.

I think it's entirely possible that Miller didn't do what ESPN said he did, or it's a different player and the discussion was about Bowen. Millers argument then is we didn't agree to pay him and he didn't commit to arizona. The problem for Miller is that we know for a fact that Bowen went under oath and said I was going to commit to arizona, I didn't because neither Trier nor Alkins went pro, so I went somewhere else(Louisville). If Miller is saying the reason we didn't get Bowen is we didn't agree to pay him, Bowen contradicts that, they DID get Bowen, he simply passed because he didn't see obvious PT behind Trier and Alkins. That doesn't prove they agreed to pay him of course but that's the entire intent of what Miller said, he didn't go to arizona because we didn't agree to pay him.

The timeline is also consistent with Nassir Little.

and it's consistent with the idea that they were trying to "lock in" Ayton.

ESPN appears to have made a bunch of mistakes, they are insistent the core of their story is still true, that Miller is on tape discussing paying ayton.

I assume we'll eventually find out who's right and who's wrong, I agree it's unlikely Miller will sign because he can't prove malice. Someone leaked this to ESPN, if Miller can find out who, he might be able to sue them instead of ESPN.

It's a bizarre story.

 

[SO91]

I get that point but again look at the timeline. IF they were in fact talking about Ayton obviously he'd already committed, and may have even been on campus. Which is why getting him locked down, not signed, is relevant. If it was Ayton in that timeframe, the most obvious answer is Miller was afraid Ayton was going to what Terrance Ferguson did and go pro, so he was confirming with Dawkins that a deal for money was in place. Why Dawkins? Because Dawkins was being funded by Andy Miller, and if they needed money to pay a player, you do it through a 3rd party and ASM sports is the perfect example of such a 3rd party.

Right now I don't have a clue what happened, I said originally it amazed me Miller would be dumb enough to do this, I also think it makes no sense for ESPN to dig in this much if they at all think it's possible they're wrong. The SI story quoted earlier is still going off the old timeline so the entire point of the story is wrong since ESPN has gone back to the original 2017 timeline.

I think it's entirely possible that Miller didn't do what ESPN said he did, or it's a different player and the discussion was about Bowen. Millers argument then is we didn't agree to pay him and he didn't commit to arizona. The problem for Miller is that we know for a fact that Bowen went under oath and said I was going to commit to arizona, I didn't because neither Trier nor Alkins went pro, so I went somewhere else(Louisville). If Miller is saying the reason we didn't get Bowen is we didn't agree to pay him, Bowen contradicts that, they DID get Bowen, he simply passed because he didn't see obvious PT behind Trier and Alkins. That doesn't prove they agreed to pay him of course but that's the entire intent of what Miller said, he didn't go to arizona because we didn't agree to pay him.

The timeline is also consistent with Nassir Little.

and it's consistent with the idea that they were trying to "lock in" Ayton.

ESPN appears to have made a bunch of mistakes, they are insistent the core of their story is still true, that Miller is on tape discussing paying ayton.

I assume we'll eventually find out who's right and who's wrong, I agree it's unlikely Miller will sign because he can't prove malice. Someone leaked this to ESPN, if Miller can find out who, he might be able to sue them instead of ESPN.

It's a bizarre story.

There's so much speculation, and rewording, and twisting what little is known to the public to fit what your beliefs are in this post my dude, that I don't know if I could properly reply. Now it's gone from recruiting and commitment, to locking him down out of some perceived fear that you've assigned here. The fact that ESPN has changed the timeline and story multiple times is fine apparently, and therefore what SI has said is irrelevant now.

ESPN is dug in, as you said, because it's probably difficult, if not impossible, for malice to be proven. The network (not necessarily the author of the original report) is in the business of generating money and clicks. They put out this massive story and used it all weekend. If they turn out to be mostly full of crap, or wrong, I don't see what Sean Miller, or Arizona will be able to do to make them pay. The public will be outraged for a few days and they'll move past it. It's not the first time they put out incorrect info and delayed a long time in correcting (Mortensen and Deflategate).

I have no idea what Bowen did or did not say under oath, but we can all speculate, much like you did here, on what he could have said to fit whatever story we're trying to push or believe.

 

[ozzfloyd]

http://awfulannouncing.com/espn/ami...ctions-espn-losing-narrative-sean-miller.html

 

[carey]

With another decommitment today, do you all see the program rebounding if Miller stays as head coach?

 

[Chaplin]

With another decommitment today, do you all see the program rebounding if Miller stays as head coach?

Too early to tell.

 

[82CardsGrad]

With another decommitment today, do you all see the program rebounding if Miller stays as head coach?

Sure... Will take 2-3 years, but make no mistake, if Miller somehow squirms out of this ordeal and is vindicated, UofA will absolutely regain its' glory.

 

[Russ Smith]

There's so much speculation, and rewording, and twisting what little is known to the public to fit what your beliefs are in this post my dude, that I don't know if I could properly reply. Now it's gone from recruiting and commitment, to locking him down out of some perceived fear that you've assigned here. The fact that ESPN has changed the timeline and story multiple times is fine apparently, and therefore what SI has said is irrelevant now.

ESPN is dug in, as you said, because it's probably difficult, if not impossible, for malice to be proven. The network (not necessarily the author of the original report) is in the business of generating money and clicks. They put out this massive story and used it all weekend. If they turn out to be mostly full of crap, or wrong, I don't see what Sean Miller, or Arizona will be able to do to make them pay. The public will be outraged for a few days and they'll move past it. It's not the first time they put out incorrect info and delayed a long time in correcting (Mortensen and Deflategate).

I have no idea what Bowen did or did not say under oath, but we can all speculate, much like you did here, on what he could have said to fit whatever story we're trying to push or believe.

Bowens testimony under oath has been made public, by Bowen, he very clearly stated he was goign to Arizona but neither Trier nor Alkins went pro. Maybe the dad asked Miller for money and the dad said no and then persuaded the son you won't play there, who knows, but Bowen's under oath statement is well known he made it public in a letter he posted declaring his innocence.

I agree I am speculating, I offered multiple explanations, that don't require the user to believe ESPN is out to get Arizona, which is apparently the explanation for the story being posted in the first place.

 

[Russ Smith]

With another decommitment today, do you all see the program rebounding if Miller stays as head coach?

if he's innocent eventually yes.

If he's innocent and proves ESPN is wrong, Book was a rogue coach, Book and Pasternack weren't really brokering Rawle and Lauri to get Bowen etc he'll go right back up there a notch below Duke and UK for recruiting. Kids will love a guy who took on the NCAA and the media and won.

 

[Raindog]

The specifics of the ESPN story may or may not be accurate. But it is extremely hard to believe that his long time assistant and another assistant were acting independently without Miller's knowledge, active cooperation/participation, or tacit approval. I don't think anyone for a moment believes that - other than maybe Wildcat cultists.

And neither Miller's vehement denials, nor the willingness of the embattled university admin/athletic department's to whistle pass the graveyard about the whole thing, constitutes Miller being "vindicated." I have a hard time believing the events of the past few days aren't just a band-aid on a gaping shotgun wound that won't fall off when further revelations eventually come out.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The specifics of the ESPN story may or may not be accurate. But it is extremely hard to believe that his long time assistant and another assistant were acting independently without Miller's knowledge, active cooperation/participation, or tacit approval. I don't think anyone for a moment believes that - other than maybe Wildcat cultists.

And neither Miller's vehement denials, nor the willingness of the embattled university admin/athletic department's to whistle pass the graveyard about the whole thing, constitutes Miller being "vindicated." I have a hard time believing the events of the past few days aren't just a band-aid on a gaping shotgun wound that won't fall off when further revelations eventually come out.

Right? Did everyone who stands behind Miller because of vehement denials just forget about Palmiero wagging his finger at Congress... Sammy Sosa forgetting how to speak english after his denial... Lance Armstrong lying and destroying lives for people who exposed his lies... Trump's twitter tirades where every time he screams NO COLLUSION! NO COLLUSION!?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Right? Did everyone who stands behind Miller because of vehement denials just forget about Palmiero wagging his finger at Congress... Sammy Sosa forgetting how to speak english after his denial... Lance Armstrong lying and destroying lives for people who exposed his lies... Trump's twitter tirades where every time he screams NO COLLUSION! NO COLLUSION!?

I guess you've never heard of the Duke Lacrosse team.

This will all come out at some point but basically every media outlet has poked major holes in the ESPN story. It's not ESPN vs Miller, it's ESPN vs Miller, Sports Illustrated (who indicated they heard the tapes), 247, Fox, CBS, etc. Nobody will truly know until the tapes are released.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The specifics of the ESPN story may or may not be accurate. But it is extremely hard to believe that his long time assistant and another assistant were acting independently without Miller's knowledge, active cooperation/participation, or tacit approval. I don't think anyone for a moment believes that - other than maybe Wildcat cultists.

All anyone is doing now is moving the goal posts. Or refusing to look bad since they jumped the gun on an ESPN report that has been picked apart since it's release.

It started as "Miller paid Ayton $100k!!! Torches and pitchforks!"

Now it's "well the ESPN report might not be accurate but it doesn't matter, look at this other stuff. Torches and pitchforks!"

 

[TJ]

With another decommitment today, do you all see the program rebounding if Miller stays as head coach?

Arizona has proven itself a brand name. It was top of the conference with Lute and top of the conference with Miller. The next two seasons will be rebuild years (which means fringe tournament team for Arizona), but in due time, we'll be back, with or without Miller.

 

[TJ]

Right? Did everyone who stands behind Miller because of vehement denials just forget about Palmiero wagging his finger at Congress... Sammy Sosa forgetting how to speak english after his denial... Lance Armstrong lying and destroying lives for people who exposed his lies... Trump's twitter tirades where every time he screams NO COLLUSION! NO COLLUSION!?

Sure, but that garbage article shouldn't prompt a tirade against Miller, which it has.

No one is naive enough to think that Miller runs a completely clean program, but to make Miller out to be the figurehead for paying recruits is silly. What Schlabach's piece has done was minimize the impact of the Forde article with documented evidence of payments to recruits. We're up to 20-25 schools and all anyone wants to talk about is Arizona only because the alleged payment amount was larger.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

All anyone is doing now is moving the goal posts. Or refusing to look bad since they jumped the gun on an ESPN report that has been picked apart since it's release.

It started as "Miller paid Ayton $100k!!! Torches and pitchforks!"

Now it's "well the ESPN report might not be accurate but it doesn't matter, look at this other stuff. Torches and pitchforks!"

Correct me if I’m wrong (which I may be) but weren’t you one of the people stating (a) the NCAA would be lenient because of how many programs would be caught up in this, (b) everyone knows the players get money, and (c) the players should be getting paid? All items that seemed awfully apologists at the time. And now you’re crying “he’s innocent! Vindication!” Talking about moving goalposts . . .

 

[TJ]

I guess you've never heard of Bernie Fine. Or the Duke Lacrosse team.

This will all come out at some point but basically every media outlet has poked major holes in the ESPN story. It's not ESPN vs Miller, it's ESPN vs Miller, Sports Illustrated (who indicated they heard the tapes), 247, Fox, CBS, etc. Nobody will truly know until the tapes are released.

Add Michigan State - OTL piece.

If everyone pleads out in the FBI case, which is likely, we'll never know what's on those tapes. That's the reason why the payasos at ESPN can double-down and offer 77 corrections on their original story without fear of repercussion.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Correct me if I’m wrong (which I may be) but weren’t you one of the people stating (a) the NCAA would be lenient because of how many programs would be caught up in this, (b) everyone knows the players get money, and (c) the players should be getting paid? All items that seemed awfully apologists at the time. And now you’re crying “he’s innocent! Vindication!” Talking about moving goalposts . . .

Are we talking about Book or the ESPN report? Because those are two separate things.

With Book Miller was in the wrong and we will pay the penalties for that. I don't happen to beleive they will be very harsh for countless reasons most notably the history of penalties the NCAA has handed down.

I never said he was innocent of the ESPN report, I really don't know nor will any of us until or if those tapes are released. It's clear however that report has major issues and every other media outlet has said as much, but again one day we will know for sure.

Yes, I know the players get money and have no issue with it from a moral perspective but rules are rules which is why we will face some sort of penalty for the Book thing and another if the Ayton-Miller thing is true. But to be honest even if the latter is true don't see us getting more than a 2 year postseason ban likely one. That's what Penn State got for covering up decades of child molestation after all.

 

[Raindog]

It's the Book stuff that precisely lends credence TO the ESPN story, whether they got all the details correct or not. If the Book stuff doesn't happen, then maybe there is a slight inclination for people outside of UA homers to believe that maybe just maybe ESPN doesn't have any credibility in this story, even if there's no reasonably credible motive as to why they would just make it up or take some unvetted source at his/her word.

Some errors or retractions in ESPN's report do not invalidate the truth of the story, only their care and accuracy in reporting it. And again, by no means does that "exonerate" Miller of what is being alleged in the story, but only cast some potential doubt on the complete reliability of the source... who we don't really know either.

Only pointing this out because I have been seeing lots of UA fanatics (not necessarily here) running victory laps over the last couple days because they think Miller keeping his job for the moment and the university sitting on its hands about it does somehow imply the coach, players, and program are all in the clear, unjustly impugned, and no further revelations or consequences will be forthcoming ever... and if not, it is some grave injustice engineered by the united evil forces of ESPN, the NCAA, the FBI, Dawkins, Duke, Rick Pitino, and everyone else under the sun.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

It's the Book stuff that precisely lends credence TO the ESPN story, whether they got all the details correct or not. If the Book stuff doesn't happen, then maybe there is a slight inclination for people outside of UA homers to believe that maybe just maybe ESPN doesn't have any credibility in this story, even if there's no reasonably credible motive as to why they would just make it up or take some unvetted source at his/her word.

Again - it's not just UA homers. It's every major sports media outlet that is poking holes in the ESPN story. You, Ouchie, Cheese, etc. never seem to acknowledge this for obvious reasons. You guys are actiung like it's only some random UofA blogger railing against this story.

Some errors or retractions in ESPN's report do not invalidate the truth of the story, only their care and accuracy in reporting it.

Of course not, but ESPN being careless (your words not mine) should cause one to at minimum question the validity of the story.

And again, by no means does that "exonerate" Miller of what is being alleged in the story, but only cast some potential doubt on the complete reliability of the source... who we don't really know either.

Again, of course not but the errors and retractions on top of other major media outlet's sources denying the accuracy of the story again should cause one to at minimum question it's accuracy. Full "vindication" only occurs if the tapes are released and ESPN report proven to be false or clearly misleading.

Only pointing this out because I have been seeing lots of UA fanatics (not necessarily here) running victory laps over the last couple days because they think Miller keeping his job for the moment and the university sitting on its hands about it does somehow imply the coach, players, and program are all in the clear, unjustly impugned, and no further revelations or consequences will be forthcoming ever... and if not, it is some grave injustice engineered by the united evil forces of ESPN, the NCAA, the FBI, Dawkins, Duke, Rick Pitino, and everyone else under the sun.

I still doubt Miller will even be the coach next year and I don't think anyone is doubting the validity of the Book investigation and arrest. Again - you're mixing Book and the ESPN-Ayton story. Both are significantly different in levels of NCAA violations and legal ramifications. It's like saying because someone is guilty of shoplifting at a convenience store then they're likely also guilty of the murder that happened there a little while later.

 

[TJ]

It's the Book stuff that precisely lends credence TO the ESPN story, whether they got all the details correct or not. If the Book stuff doesn't happen, then maybe there is a slight inclination for people outside of UA homers to believe that maybe just maybe ESPN doesn't have any credibility in this story, even if there's no reasonably credible motive as to why they would just make it up or take some unvetted source at his/her word.

Some errors or retractions in ESPN's report do not invalidate the truth of the story, only their care and accuracy in reporting it. And again, by no means does that "exonerate" Miller of what is being alleged in the story, but only cast some potential doubt on the complete reliability of the source... who we don't really know either.
.

You can totally invalidate the ESPN report:

1. They offered three different dates, and all three don't line up with the wiretap dates.
2. They changed the name from Deandre Ayton to "a 5-star recruit"
3. They changed the narrative from Miller paying Ayton to Miller steering Ayton to Dawkins.

These are mistakes that first-year journalism students learn not to do. And at least five different major news outlets have put out counterpoints to disprove the article.

And yes, when you make careless and inaccurate statements, especially the ones as egregiously made by Schlabach, it kills the entire article. I can legitimately start asking questions like, "how do they know that's not Sean Miller, but rather Andy Miller"?

I'm sorry, but with those errors, you can't take anything seriously from the Schlabach, even if you wanted to bring in the Book situation.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Are we talking about Book or the ESPN report? Because those are two separate things.

With Book Miller was in the wrong and we will pay the penalties for that. I don't happen to beleive they will be very harsh for countless reasons most notably the history of penalties the NCAA has handed down.

I never said he was innocent of the ESPN report, I really don't know nor will any of us until or if those tapes are released. It's clear however that report has major issues and every other media outlet has said as much, but again one day we will know for sure.

Yes, I know the players get money and have no issue with it from a moral perspective but rules are rules which is why we will face some sort of penalty for the Book thing and another if the Ayton-Miller thing is true. But to be honest even if the latter is true don't see us getting more than a 2 year postseason ban likely one. That's what Penn State got for covering up decades of child molestation after all.

Fair

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Again - it's not just UA homers. It's every major sports media outlet that is poking holes in the ESPN story. You, Ouchie, Cheese, etc. never seem to acknowledge this for obvious reasons. You guys are actiung like it's only some random UofA blogger railing against this story.



Of course not, but ESPN being careless (your words not mine) should cause one to at minimum question the validity of the story.


Again, of course not but the errors and retractions on top of other major media outlet's sources denying the accuracy of the story again should cause one to at minimum question it's accuracy. Full "vindication" only occurs if the tapes are released and ESPN report proven to be false or clearly misleading.


I still doubt Miller will even be the coach next year and I don't think anyone is doubting the validity of the Book investigation and arrest. Again - you're mixing Book and the ESPN-Ayton story. Both are significantly different in levels of NCAA violations and legal ramifications. It's like saying because someone is guilty of shoplifting at a convenience store then they're likely also guilty of the murder that happened there a little while later.

I’m not saying it’s some blogger. I never said that. I’ve said typically where there’s smoke there’s fire. And as new stuff comes out about the accuracy of the ESPN story I’ve never argued in favor of its veracity I believe I’ve consistently stated that I think the twists and turns have been extremely interesting.

Trust me I wish none of this ever occurred. I hate that this is going to set the program back and I’m far more worried than you are that the sanctions will be worse.

 

[Russ Smith]

I guess you've never heard of the Duke Lacrosse team.

This will all come out at some point but basically every media outlet has poked major holes in the ESPN story. It's not ESPN vs Miller, it's ESPN vs Miller, Sports Illustrated (who indicated they heard the tapes), 247, Fox, CBS, etc. Nobody will truly know until the tapes are released.

SI said their source heard the tapes. IF SI said THEY had heard the tapes they'd be in huge trouble with the Feds right now since the tapes are part of a sealed order.

FWIW, I didn't see it myself in the original report but there's an Arizona fan who's insisting in the original report, when Book is talking to Dawkins about paying Quinerly, Book says "we just got a freshman for 100K." That's apparently in the original filings the FBI put out. I sure didn't see it but if it is, it would explain where the ESPN story might be coming from and that it's not Miller. The key then would be the timing, is that Book thinking he's got Bowen?

If that's in there, and that's the tape, it would definitely get Ayton cleared and Miller for that allegation too.