MJ said Graves was hoping .....

[pinnacle]

actually.....I do not remember anyone from the top brass at the cardinals every admitting they made any type of misjudgement/error...at least graves indirectly said he may have errored..first I have heard that out of the top of this organization (i.e. players above the level of the head coach).

and..there have been some sorry teams, sorry coaches and various stadium disasters over the past 15 years...

sounds like rod will try not to make the same mistake next year - which is a positive...

I was really getting pissed over not having another veteran defensive lineman (or two) on the team..at least someone said they misjudged.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by nidan
But it's always easier with hindsight.

I didn't want to get invovled in this but that comment is just BS and you know it Nidan - there were a good group of us that has been complaining about this very issue for months - even back during free agency. Hindsight nothing.

 

[maddogkf]

OK - I like some of the moves RG made & am hopeful that he has a plan.

It just drives me nuts though that we seem to bring a guy in, get him a physical, interview, escort him to a plane, let him talk to 2 other teams, then start negotiating.

The Blake case - is that the norm or the exception?

I'm hoping things are changing. We need it.

I'd feel much better if there were talks of extending current contracts for some FA now since we can take some cap hits.

 

[maddogkf]

Originally posted by pinnacle
I was really getting pissed over not having another veteran defensive lineman (or two) on the team..at least someone said they misjudged.

Good answer! You win a cupie doll!

That says what I tried to say in a nutshell

 

[Sandan]

There is some truth in the Cheese had things turned out just fractioanly different then you would have been wrong.

In those months you talk about, we had KVB, Bell wasn't injured and Kenny's toe was fine. Had we know that on week 2 KVB would be on IR and King would hurt his toe (I'm hoping Bell can play) then I'm sure we would have pulled some triggers earlier, but we didn't.

Also if we knew that the Eagles would take Coleman then we might had grabbed himearlier. Had we known all of this we almost certainly would have pulled the trigger.

Point is we didn't know all of this and we came out on the short end as a result.

If I had to guess, Rod wants to spend a lot of $$ resigning esisting players to long term deals. This will free up cap space next year and continue us with having $$ to spend. I don't think he was expecting a mash unit being required again this year.

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I still don't understand why people deserve extra credit for hitting par.

Because from a management perspective getting up to par for the Cardinals is an improvement. One has to get there before you can get ahead of the game.

 

[CardsFan88]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I think that was "red storm"s gig. I miss that, too. It was funny.

You must be registered for see images attach

Thanx guys, just seeing that picture cracks me up, I saved it as rod graves.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by maddogkf
OK - I like some of the moves RG made & am hopeful that he has a plan.

It just drives me nuts though that we seem to bring a guy in, get him a physical, interview, escort him to a plane, let him talk to 2 other teams, then start negotiating.

The Blake case - is that the norm or the exception?

I'm hoping things are changing. We need it.

I'd feel much better if there were talks of extending current contracts for some FA now since we can take some cap hits.

This is the scariets thing to me about extending contracts - who do we give them to? Adrian Wilson? He scares the ever living crap out of me and hasn't proven he deserves anything but the one year tender and 3rd year player one year contract we can offer after the season - which at that point we will know for sure what we have.

Shelton - good case to be made for Shelton as the indivudla player - plays hurt, had a decent season last year - but why is it that the O-line is continually underachieving - I'm not laying blame at LJ's feet and do think he is most deserving of an extension out of everyone, but it would be nice to see him dominate considering a likely extension is gonn abe for big money as a LT.

Ray Thompson - all you guys seem to be completely sold on Ray and the Kool-Aid got to me over the offseason because I was never a big fan of his (don't get me wrong -he's a steady player but I don't see what all the hoopla is over him) but then Sunday came and once again I saw him having problems covering Cory Schlesinger and generally dissappearing throughout the rest of the game - what kidn of contract do you offer him?

As far as anyone else - who in the hell else is there that has shown they deserve contract extensions? No one on the D-line has ever shown anything - Barrett - maybe - I do think he could be a decent #2 CB in this league - anyone else on D.

As far as offense goes -who there deserves an extension? I don't see anyone besides L.J. So who are all these guys were gonna give contract extensions to? A lot of,people here have erroneously complained that the darkside wants to pick up every player off the waiever wire just to spend money for spending money's sake - personally - I think if we did that to our own guys who don't deserve anything it just keeps us going along our losing ways.

So to make a long story short - who do you guys think deserve contract extensions and what do you think the Cards would be willing to offer?

 

[jf-08]

Originally posted by nidan

Point is we didn't know all of this and we came out on the short end as a result.

Exactly - by being very reactive instead of proactive we will always "not know all of this and come out on the short end."

When KVB went down, have a plan, don't worry about having to guarantee contracts for the whole year by signing after week 1. Bring someone (Coleman) in the minute he was cut and don't let him leave without a contract.

 

[Sandan]

LJ
Barret
Wilson depnding on his play this year
Kendall
KVB I'm sure was in the plan, who knows now
Justin Lucas

 

[maddogkf]

Originally posted by nidan
Also if we knew that the Eagles would take Coleman then we might had grabbed himearlier. Had we known all of this we almost certainly would have pulled the trigger.

Point is we didn't know all of this and we came out on the short end as a result.
.

That's just it! All I want is to be PRO-ACTIVE, not reactive.

It's like you're sitting there at the bar, staring at your beer, licking your lips thinking "Should I sip it? Should I chug it? Should I drink half of it and save half for later? Will it get warm if I don't drink all of it? Should I have ordered a different flavor?"

Meanwhile, Jocko sitting next to you quickly grabs your beer, chugs it and slams the glass back down on the table, belches and walks out the door.

Now you have to drink milk.

 

[AZCB34]

So to make a long story short - who do you guys think deserve contract extensions and what do you think the Cards would be willing to offer? [/B]

And after the losing season(s)...which isn't normal for alot of these guys, will they be willing to resign here? I think this is an issue that is important too. You can offer money but if the losing is just getting old, money isn't going to do the trick.

That is why I think making a couple moves on one year deals to try and improve the team would have actually had the additional effect of "showing" desire to place winning product on the field. Maybe the moves would have resulted in one more win...or none...but the perception would have been the team does what it takes and more. Perception can be more powerful than reality sometimes.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by nidan
LJ
Barret
Wilson depnding on his play this year
Kendall
KVB I'm sure was in the plan, who knows now
Justin Lucas

Well I don't agree with all those but okay.

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by AZCB34
but the perception would have been the team does what it takes and more. Perception can be more powerful than reality sometimes.

True

 

[maddogkf]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
This is the scariets thing to me about extending contracts - who do we give them to?

Scott Player - one can never have too many bobble heads

 

[KingofCards]

Originally posted by maddogkf
That's just it! All I want is to be PRO-ACTIVE, not reactive.

It's like you're sitting there at the bar, staring at your beer, licking your lips thinking "Should I sip it? Should I chug it? Should I drink half of it and save half for later? Will it get warm if I don't drink all of it? Should I have ordered a different flavor?"

Meanwhile, Jocko sitting next to you quickly grabs your beer, chugs it and slams the glass back down on the table, belches and walks out the door.

Now you have to drink milk.

Wait a second. I now see everything clearly. Rod Graves is trying to steal my beer and make me drink milk!

Sign me up for the Darkside this is unacceptable!

 

[maddogkf]

Originally posted by KingofCards
Wait a second. I now see everything clearly. Rod Graves is trying to steal my beer and make me drink milk!

Sign me up for the Darkside this is unacceptable!

I'm not a darksider - but let's take a chance!

 

[KingofCards]

Originally posted by maddogkf
I'm not a darksider - but let's take a chance!

I know, I am not joining the darkside either. Beer analogies just make everything clearer for me. I was j/k.

I agree with your post.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by conraddobler


The guy fessed up to his mistakes but also I think he wouldn't call losing out on Coleman or Big Daddy that big of a mistake. Sure they are better than what we have now but they don't really fit the plan.

And what Plan is that??? Oh...The plan Graves always said he had.....

The Graves Plan - Lose games, save money.

The guy has no more brains than Howdy Doody. The only question is this...Is Graves head made of Hickory or Maple?

Another thing....Not signing Coleman because they did not want to guarantee the contract for the year is a lame excuse. What, would we sign Coleman then play him two games and cut him? Was KVB suddenly going to be healed miraculously and start this week? We lost our starting DE for the year and they are worried about paying a guy for this year to play. Does not make sense.

No...Me thinks that there is something more to it. Like manuevering to get into a much stronger negotiating postion by waiting till after week 1. That way the could pay below market value because the season would have started.

Don't be fooled. The bottom line is money. Always has always will be with Bidwill. I doubt it will change with the new stadium and increased revenue. Remember, "faithful in little, faithful with much". They (Cards as an org) have not been faithful with the little they have had in fielding a winner so more money will not solve the problems. It is a mindset. It is a business practice that is adhered to against all common sense.

Graves has the job because he is Bidwills puppet and will do as the Puppet Master bids.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by maddogkf
I'm not a darksider - but let's take a chance!

Maddog - I AM YOUR FATHER!

 

[Jttsaz]

Agreed! This is VERY disheartening..What kind of message does this send to the Fans, the players, and coach Mac??

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Jttsaz
Agreed! This is VERY disheartening..What kind of message does this send to the Fans, the players, and coach Mac??

Man, screw coach Mac. I think that the team I saw on Sunday has the potential to win at least seven games. That should be the goal. Did Graves have the opportunity to add pieces to make this a team that could win at least eight games? Yes. But if Mac loses 10 games again this season, it's no one's fault but his own. He gave one away last Sunday, and now he has fifteen more chances to win seven. Good luck, coach Mac: This isn't a great team, but it's a mediocre one. Get mediocre results.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by nidan
Actually I do have to work occasionaly.

As for RG, in the midst of slamming him with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Please feel free to ignore the goods things he has achived it makes your rant's so much more effective

1) 1st round picks in camp
2) The draft most of the picks are looking good right now, with the except of Q who looks unbelivable.
3) Resigning players before the end of their contracts (I'm hoping for more)
4) Leting Jake & DB go, did anybody hear Joe Bugel on that today ?

Not spinning anything I think RG has screwed a couple of pouches so far but then may he thinks so as well. But it's always easier with hindsight.

Letting Jake go was a no brainer. Even Jake new that.

Boston I will agree that it looks good now.

As far as our draft picks...

Pace = o sacks.
Boldin = Great find
Johnson = #1 pick did not start opening day. Starting because of an injury.

So, I say the jury is out. Until Boldin does what he did to Detroit on a consistent basis then I will agree. Right now it could have been lucky. I hope not but jury still out.

1st rd picks in camp. Were they signed before camp or after camp started? Also, that injury wavier thing finally changed but it took them a whole year (last year with Bryant to this year) to finally realize that they have to do something about. True progress but still a year behind the times at least.


So, Graves did good in getting Blake. Letting go of the Plummer era. But he has made some big mistakes and, IMO, is running about 70-30 in Good decisions vs Poor decisions.

He said judge at training camp. We are at week two with no vet WR, an old RB, a good QB, no pass rush.

That is one out of four.

JMO

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by nidan
There is some truth in the Cheese had things turned out just fractioanly different then you would have been wrong.

In those months you talk about, we had KVB, Bell wasn't injured and Kenny's toe was fine. Had we know that on week 2 KVB would be on IR and King would hurt his toe (I'm hoping Bell can play) then I'm sure we would have pulled some triggers earlier, but we didn't.

Also if we knew that the Eagles would take Coleman then we might had grabbed himearlier. Had we known all of this we almost certainly would have pulled the trigger.

Point is we didn't know all of this and we came out on the short end as a result.

If I had to guess, Rod wants to spend a lot of $$ resigning esisting players to long term deals. This will free up cap space next year and continue us with having $$ to spend. I don't think he was expecting a mash unit being required again this year.

Well we are never going to know everyting. That's the issue. We have a GM who is hesitant to pull the trigger to get talent. By the time we get the info the opportunity has passed. Like waiting 48 hrs before they make an offer to a FA. They come here, we interview, they leave and we wait for two days. By then we are an after thought and the FA signs with someone else.

We need to buy FAs a one way ticket to Phx and not let them leave until they sign. We target our guy and we do not miss.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by RedStorm
Letting Jake go was a no brainer. Even Jake new that.

Boston I will agree that it looks good now.

As far as our draft picks...

Pace = o sacks.
Boldin = Great find
Johnson = #1 pick did not start opening day. Starting because of an injury.

Lots of really good NFL players didn't have a sack in their first game. I recall people wondering what was wrong with Bruce Smith because he took several games to get his first NFL sack and only had 6.5 as a rookie, not saying Pace is that good, but he did make an impact in the game at least.

As for Boldin's game being lucky, can you make a list of all the WR's in NFL history with a 200 yard game? I bet it's not very long and I bet there are very few guys on there who weren't good players overall. I remember Flipper Anderson going nuts once but even he was a solid player before injuries hurt his career. Not saying Boldin is the new Jerry Rice but I doubt that game was luck.

Johnson I agree, jury is out his hands concern me but we all knew he was raw playing in that offense at Penn State.

As for who we extend with the caproom, I think that's obvious, it will take a LOT of money to keep Boldin around now, let's just redo his deal now (-: