MJ said Graves was hoping .....

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Lots of really good NFL players didn't have a sack in their first game. I recall people wondering what was wrong with Bruce Smith because he took several games to get his first NFL sack and only had 6.5 as a rookie, not saying Pace is that good, but he did make an impact in the game at least.

As for Boldin's game being lucky, can you make a list of all the WR's in NFL history with a 200 yard game? I bet it's not very long and I bet there are very few guys on there who weren't good players overall. I remember Flipper Anderson going nuts once but even he was a solid player before injuries hurt his career. Not saying Boldin is the new Jerry Rice but I doubt that game was luck.

Johnson I agree, jury is out his hands concern me but we all knew he was raw playing in that offense at Penn State.

As for who we extend with the caproom, I think that's obvious, it will take a LOT of money to keep Boldin around now, let's just redo his deal now (-:

Russ,

I do not disagree with your comments. Mine were just addressing the comment that we had a good draft. Maybe, maybe not. Thing is we have 12-14 million and we are relying on rookies.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Lots of really good NFL players didn't have a sack in their first game. I recall people wondering what was wrong with Bruce Smith because he took several games to get his first NFL sack and only had 6.5 as a rookie, not saying Pace is that good, but he did make an impact in the game at least.

But that doesn't really do a lot to address the primary problem coming out of last season which was the absence of a pass rush. If Pace only gets 6 sacks this season, and Bryant gets 5, and Wakefield gets 2, we're still the worst pass-rushing team in the league. Is the fact that we didn't have a pass rush this year, either, really going to be an attractant to the next Rosie Colvin or Vonnie Holliday?

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9
But that doesn't really do a lot to address the primary problem coming out of last season which was the absence of a pass rush. If Pace only gets 6 sacks this season, and Bryant gets 5, and Wakefield gets 2, we're still the worst pass-rushing team in the league. Is the fact that we didn't have a pass rush this year, either, really going to be an attractant to the next Rosie Colvin or Vonnie Holliday?

I wouldn't be surprised if Pace gets more sacks than Holliday by the end of the year anyways. Remember Carlos Hall's debut last year for the Titans? didn't do much after that. I completely agree we needed more help on our pass rush, but I do think we at least tried to get some.

I think Colvin didn't want to be a Cardinal, neither did Vonnie, we can't force them.

I do agree with Redstorm the amount of money we have there's no way we should be scrambling for players right now. But we dug the hole ourselves in many ways, we have got to prove to NFL players this is a place they want to play.

This club is not horrible, not great, we could use help at DT, DE, CB, WR the list is not small. But we have caproom and if we win 7-8 games we'll still have a reasonable draft slot, and enough improvement that HOPEFULLY we'll be able to persuade people to want to play for us next year.

As much as it would be nice to suck this year, get a great pick and draft Gamble or Roy Williams or Woolfork, the fact is if that happens we're not going to be able to convince a lot of FA's they should come here.

So I'm not disagreeing with either you or redstorm, I just wanted to point out that Pace and Boldin appear to be the real deal. We have to start somewhere, clearly Graves underestimated the FA situation, or over estimated I guess.

I guess I'm just trying to stay optimistic here it's tough when it's week 2 and you're scrambling for WR's and DL's.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Is the fact that we didn't have a pass rush this year, either, really going to be an attractant to the next Rosie Colvin or Vonnie Holliday?

Yeah our pass rush looked suspect vs Detroit but Harrington is a tough guy to sack. Can we please play a few more games before we officially declare that we "don't have a pass rush" this year?

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Rivercard
Yeah our pass rush looked suspect vs Detroit but Harrington is a tough guy to sack. Can we please play a few more games before we officially declare that we "don't have a pass rush" this year?

You're right. I do have to say that we play a lot of tough O-Lines this season (Seattle 2x, St. Louis 2x, Minnesota [the-Bigger-than-the-Big-Red-Line-Line], Carolina, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Baltimore), and pressure is going to be hard to come by.

 

[40yearfan]

Cry, moan and complain. I'm not sure whether I'm on a sports message board or "The Guiding Edge" soap opera.

C'mon guys, it's TGIF. Don't worry. Be happy. It's only football. Think about wild women and copious amounts of liquor. It sure beats bitching about a football team.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by kerouac9
You're right. I do have to say that we play a lot of tough O-Lines this season (Seattle 2x, St. Louis 2x, Minnesota [the-Bigger-than-the-Big-Red-Line-Line], Carolina, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Baltimore), and pressure is going to be hard to come by.

Yeah those are some tough lines but at least Pace looks like he can get some pressure and Bryant actually encouraged me a little last week. I'd like to see Mac get more creative and bring the house. We need to take some chances and try to keep opponents off-guard. If we're going to get beat let's at least go down swinging.

 

[conraddobler]

I am not saying people don't have legitimate gripes but the bottom line is it is about money and guess what it isn't any of ours.

Graves looks stupid now because now our Dline has joined forces with our WR core in who can get the most hideous freak injury of the week race.

King Pace Bryant Bell sounds good to me always has we are just missing King and Bell.

The WR tandem of Johnson and Boldin .... aw the heck with it play em now let it rip this isn't even bothering me.

It could take a year or so to sort out the mess that is the Cardinals... Just how long have you guys been fans anyway??? I'm going on my 30th year maybe after all that depression a year more dosen't bother me as bad as others.

None of this changes the fact that with the proper management of the game we could have should have won last weeks game... Is that Mr. Graves fault??? He didn't hire Mac now did he.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Cry, moan and complain. I'm not sure whether I'm on a sports message board or "The Guiding Edge" soap opera.

C'mon guys, it's TGIF. Don't worry. Be happy. It's only football. Think about wild women and copious amounts of liquor. It sure beats bitching about a football team.

I'm hearing voices again ......Ahh... the voice of reason.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Cry, moan and complain. I'm not sure whether I'm on a sports message board or "The Guiding Edge" soap opera.

C'mon guys, it's TGIF. Don't worry. Be happy. It's only football. Think about wild women and copious amounts of liquor. It sure beats bitching about a football team.

Hear here!!

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by conraddobler
I am not saying people don't have legitimate gripes but the bottom line is it is about money and guess what it isn't any of ours.

Graves looks stupid now because now our Dline has joined forces with our WR core in who can get the most hideous freak injury of the week race.

King Pace Bryant Bell sounds good to me always has we are just missing King and Bell.

The WR tandem of Johnson and Boldin .... aw the heck with it play em now let it rip this isn't even bothering me.

It could take a year or so to sort out the mess that is the Cardinals... Just how long have you guys been fans anyway??? I'm going on my 30th year maybe after all that depression a year more dosen't bother me as bad as others.

None of this changes the fact that with the proper management of the game we could have should have won last weeks game... Is that Mr. Graves fault??? He didn't hire Mac now did he.

Well said actually, with all the issues we win that game if Mac has the team ready to play.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I totally agree also.

Good post Conrad.

 

[Lex]

Terrell Suggs has more sacks than our entire team.

Just thought I'd throw that little factoid out there for you.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Well said actually, with all the issues we win that game if Mac has the team ready to play.

I agree. Don't know whether that's good or bad though. The optomist in me says we're a better team and Mac can fix things. the darkside in me thinks Mac is Mac and here we go again.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by Lex
Terrell Suggs has more sacks than our entire team.

Just thought I'd throw that little factoid out there for you.

(In my best Madden voice) We'll, anyone with 1/2 a sack or more has more sacks than our team.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Lex
Terrell Suggs has more sacks than our entire team.

Just thought I'd throw that little factoid out there for you.

But he wouldn't if he were a Cardinal. Lets face it, it's impossible for Suggs, as a Cardinal, to have more sacks than the entire Cardinal team.

I think it's pretty clear he didn't fit the defense we wanted to play.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
But he wouldn't if he were a Cardinal. Lets face it, it's impossible for Suggs, as a Cardinal, to have more sacks than the entire Cardinal team.

I think it's pretty clear he didn't fit the defense we wanted to play.

This sounds like something from The Onion!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by nidan
There is some truth in the Cheese had things turned out just fractioanly different then you would have been wrong.

In those months you talk about, we had KVB, Bell wasn't injured and Kenny's toe was fine. Had we know that on week 2 KVB would be on IR and King would hurt his toe (I'm hoping Bell can play) then I'm sure we would have pulled some triggers earlier, but we didn't.

Also if we knew that the Eagles would take Coleman then we might had grabbed himearlier. Had we known all of this we almost certainly would have pulled the trigger.

Point is we didn't know all of this and we came out on the short end as a result.

If I had to guess, Rod wants to spend a lot of $$ resigning esisting players to long term deals. This will free up cap space next year and continue us with having $$ to spend. I don't think he was expecting a mash unit being required again this year.

that's just it. this is football. injuries are part of it. planning for injuries is a BIG part of it. apparently graves planning for injuries isn't a big part of it. and regardless of what's happened, those of us clamoring for signing a d-lineman were right - injuries or not. we need 'em and don't have 'em. ain't hindsight, it was foresight on our part. y'all just don't want to admit it. that's your prerogative. stick that head back in the sand...

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
that's just it. this is football. injuries are part of it. planning for injuries is a BIG part of it. apparently graves planning for injuries isn't a big part of it. and regardless of what's happened, those of us clamoring for signing a d-lineman were right - injuries or not. we need 'em and don't have 'em. ain't hindsight, it was foresight on our part. y'all just don't want to admit it. that's your prerogative. stick that head back in the sand...

EDIT:

P.S., Nidan: KVB wasn't good before he got injured this preseason anyway. He's an overpaid Fred Wakefield now.

 

[BW52]

Originally posted by kerouac9


EDIT:

P.S., Nidan: KVB wasn't good before he got injured this preseason anyway. He's an overpaid Fred Wakefield now.

Letting us in on some of your awesome football knowledge now kerouac9,Give it a rest.

 

[Lex]

You're right of course, Russ.

Suggs doesn't fit the defense we wanted to play.

You know, shorthanded defense, undermanned defense, that 3 man front defense, that defense, that when KVB went down, everyone said we were better off defense.

That defense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by maddogkf
Scott Player - one can never have too many bobble heads

ever notice the size of his noggin? it's like he's a natural HUMAN bobblehead!

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Lex
You're right of course, Russ.

Suggs doesn't fit the defense we wanted to play.

You know, shorthanded defense, undermanned defense, that 3 man front defense, that defense, that when KVB went down, everyone said we were better off defense.

That defense.

Someone here told me the Ravens released their starting DE so they could start Suggs. Who is in fact playing situational pass rush LB in a 3/4 based on their roster from NFL.com and what's been posted from KFFL. So Suggs doesn't start there.

Can he play DE in a 4/3? I don't know but it's pretty clear the cards thought he couldn't. Clearly the Ravens don't think he can play DE in their base defense either.

FWIW Suggs barely played last Sunday according to both the Baltimore Sun and NFL.com, he had one sack in the first quarter and that was it, his only tackle. The Sun said he was in on less than 20 plays and no obvious run downs. Yes we need pass rush but we also needed a DE who could play the run, pace can, Suggs apparently can't.

I'm not saying he sucks, I'm saying taking him at #6 and paying him #6 money to do nothing but come in on passing downs probably made little sense, and I'm glad we didn't do it.

 

[BW52]

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
ever notice the size of his noggin? it's like he's a natural HUMAN bobblehead!

Player looks like just the average Joe who was dragged out of the Bar and told to put on a uniform.

 

[Lex]

I see what you're saying Russ. Suggs doesn't get to play much, less than 20 snaps. And he still got a sack...

Imagine what he could do on a team that he could actually PLAY for. Like us.

If I transfer your logic to Bryant Johnson, it's clear WE don't think he can play wideout.