MLB Steroid Melodrama

Town Drunk

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As a Giants fan, I feel as though that I must offer some kind of defense :D

First, I admit it looks bad for Barry. But all it is right now is circumstantial evidence and "unnamed sources." That's it, nothing concrete.

Secondly, if these reports of rampant steroid use are true, then most likely some of your favorite players have used the juice at one time or another.

Third, there will be no asterik. If you want to give an asterik out, then you better start with Gaylord Perry and go from there, as a lot, a lot of baseball players have cheated before.

Fourth, those who think he is a "jerk" are misinformed. The guy is actually pretty nice. He's done a lot for the fans and the community of San Francisco.

Anyways, that's it. Carry on with your bashing! ;)
 

devilalum

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Town Drunk said:
As a Giants fan, I feel as though that I must offer some kind of defense :D

First, I admit it looks bad for Barry. But all it is right now is circumstantial evidence and "unnamed sources." That's it, nothing concrete.

Secondly, if these reports of rampant steroid use are true, then most likely some of your favorite players have used the juice at one time or another.

Third, there will be no asterik. If you want to give an asterik out, then you better start with Gaylord Perry and go from there, as a lot, a lot of baseball players have cheated before.

Fourth, those who think he is a "jerk" are misinformed. The guy is actually pretty nice. He's done a lot for the fans and the community of San Francisco.

Anyways, that's it. Carry on with your bashing! ;)

I don't see how you can compare the kind of cheating Gaylord Perry did with steroid use. Sure players have always cheated, corked bats, spit balls etc... But steroid use is different.

How can you compare the performance of a normal human being with that of a genetically altered drug monster?
 

Town Drunk

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How is it different?

Cheating is cheating.

As for your drug altered comment, you have no concrete proof. Just an unnamed source and circumstantial evidence. I can show you countless pictures of players who have started out skinny as a rail when they first broke in, and now have packed on a lot of pounds. Schilling included.

People gain weight as they get older. That’s a fact of life. A good work out routine can help mold your body differently. As well as steroids.
 
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Ryanwb

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These are the most ridiculous arguments ever

Shouldn't Ruth and Gerig have an asterisk next to their numbers? They didn't play with the negro leaguers who were arguably better competition. You wonder how good Bonds actually was off juice??? How good was Ruth against a negro league pitcher? How good would he have been against a Randy Johnson slider?

Shouldn't Mayes, Killebrew and others have an asterisk next to their names because they faced starting pitchers who were tired in the 8th and 9th innings and probably throwing 150-175 pitches a game and getting cheap home runs. Today pitchers see Gagne other actual closers in the 9th innings, situational pitching changes, guys that come in to get one batter out then hit the showers

Bottom line, every generation of baseball has it's askterisks..... Sure steriods is cheating, but if you are going to single out certain athletes, you may as well scrutinize the entire statistical history of the sport and see the playing field has NEVER been equal
 

UncleChris

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Wow...... there's some truly bizarre reasoning going on here...

Performance enhancing drugs, like steroids, are in a class all by themselves and have no relationship whatsoever to number of pitches, spitballs, etc. etc. Period.
 

Lefty

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Coincidence or not?

Was listening to ESPN radio yesterday and they mentioned that Pudge Rodriguez has lost 22 pounds since last year. Could Canseco of been telling the truth? Hmmm.
 

UncleChris

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There can be no doubt that he was speaking truthfully on the generally sad state of steroid abuse in MLB. Many of his specific examples are conjecture, of course, but as they say, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, craps like a duck and has web feet like a duck, it's probably a duck. :D :wave: ;)

Pudge seems an obvious and likely target, and the 22lbs only strengthens the point.
 

devilalum

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Does your head go back to normal size when you quit?
 

UncleChris

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devilalum said:
Does your head go back to normal size when you quit?

Bonds has the double-whammy..... A big head both figuratively and literally.... :D
 
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Ryanwb

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Zona90 said:
Was listening to ESPN radio yesterday and they mentioned that Pudge Rodriguez has lost 22 pounds since last year. Could Canseco of been telling the truth? Hmmm.

....or maybe he's a 33 year old catcher who wants to reduce stress on his knees :shrug:
 

UncleChris

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Ryanwb said:
....or maybe he's a 33 year old catcher who wants to reduce stress on his knees :shrug:

:lmao: :biglaugh:

And maybe I've got a winning powerball ticket in my pocket......
 

devilalum

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UncleChris said:
:lmao: :biglaugh:

And maybe I've got a winning powerball ticket in my pocket......

Either that or you're just happy to see me.
 

AZZenny

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I heard that Palmiero lost weight, too. Gee - so did Cintron, so did Cruz. Everyone decided that they'd start working on flexibility and speed rather than muscle mass - and all at the same time.
 

schillingfan

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AZZenny said:
I heard that Palmiero lost weight, too. Gee - so did Cintron, so did Cruz. Everyone decided that they'd start working on flexibility and speed rather than muscle mass - and all at the same time.

Gee, you mean you don't believe in coincidence?

However, there is a lot to be said in favor of lemminglike behavior when it comes to fads in fashion and sports, so who knows. Perhaps flexibility and speed have become fashionable and the baseball players learned that us chicks really prefer defense to the long ball. :D
 

Southpaw

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Congress wants to know

Jay Mariotti

Sosa's next answers can be under oath

March 4, 2005

BY JAY MARIOTTI SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST
Advertisement

Dare you, Sammy Sosa. Dare you, Mark McGwire. Dare you, one and all. If you think you've been unfairly smeared by Jose Canseco and the lingering innuendo clouding baseball's Steroids Era, then here's an opportunity to show the doubting masses that you have nothing to hide and no syringes in your closets.

Do so by testifying under oath before a House committee. If you're clean, you'll be in Washington for a March 17 hearing and prepared to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. If you're dirty, you'll be somewhere else.

It's really that simple now, given the significant developments Thursday.

Just when the sport's embattled players and leaders assumed they were out of the steroids crossfire, here comes my new political hero, Rep. Henry Waxman of California, to shed brighter light on the haze. Unsatisfied by the industry's reaction to revelations about performance-enhancing drugs, Waxman and the House Government Reform Committee are inviting Canseco and six other former or active major-leaguers -- including Sosa, McGwire, Frank Thomas, Jason Giambi and Curt Schilling -- for a full-disclosure session about steroids. Because commissioner Bud See-nothing won't probe Canseco's published claims that McGwire and other big-name sluggers used 'roids, some leery politicos won't settle for a public-relations whitewashing.

They want more answers, as do we. "There's a cloud over baseball. And perhaps a public discussion of the issues, with witnesses testifying under oath, can provide a glimpse of sunlight,'' said Rep. Tom Davis (R-Va.), chairman of the committee.

"Mr. Canseco insists his information is accurate,'' said Waxman, the committee's highest-ranking Democrat. "[This] would be an opportunity to find out what really happened and get to the bottom of this scandal.''

Why not testify?

Why Barry Bonds wasn't named as an invitee, I have no idea. But how fascinating that Sosa and McGwire, the men who "brought back'' the game with their 1998 power duel, have been asked. Both have repeatedly denied ever using steroids, so there's no reason they shouldn't appear before the committee and answer all questions. By testifying under oath, they could go a long way in restoring their names, assuming they're telling the truth. But what if they don't testify? In the ongoing perception crisis, it will suggest to fans that too many skeletons lurk for open talk. Ultimately, the legacies of both men would be tainted by their silence.

My guess is, Sosa will claim his groin is too sore to leave the Baltimore Orioles camp, while McGwire will say he has an important golfing date. In fact, because Canseco has agreed to testify if given immunity, don't be surprised if no invitees show up because they want to distance themselves from his sideshow. But they really should testify, for the sake of a soiled game and the public trust they purport to represent. No one could benefit more than Sosa, whose credibility hit rock bottom after his corked-bat episode and might be helped by quality public face time. When I've asked him if he has used steroids, he answers with an emphatic "no'' and changes the topic. Why not take the same stance at the hearing?

In a perfect world, all of these men would show up and spill their guts. The one who might is Thomas, who isn't in White Sox camp as his ankle slowly heals. Unlike the others, he never has been connected to steroids rumors and has bitterly criticized users. This would be a chance to detail what he knows and cast his career in a better light for Cooperstown consideration. Imagine Sosa testifying in the hot seat, followed by Thomas. C-SPAN could charge pay-per-view rates for that drama. Same goes for Giambi, who could use the hearing to describe the depth of his steroids use. Schilling, who has talked candidly about pitchers (not himself) using steroids, always is great theater.

Breaking the silence

The game can't move on from a crisis without its biggest names speaking out. Alas, baseball has a commissioner who prefers to sell tickets and focus on the coming season rather than resolve a smudged past. Selig doesn't come from the school of total disclosure. He, too, has been invited to the hearing, and he, too, probably will pass. Never mind that this has been another ugly week in Syringeville, with Padres general manager Kevin Towers acknowledging that he suspected the late Ken Caminiti as a steroids user in the mid-'90s and looked the other way -- for all the wrong reasons. "The truth is, we're in a competitive business,'' Towers told ESPN the Magazine, "and these guys were putting up big numbers and helping your ballclub win games.''

Sox GM Ken Williams says he had suspicions about Canseco and steroids in 2001. But that didn't stop the club from signing him. Did he ever ask Canseco about steroids? Of course not. "[You're] trying to have a good positive relationship with your players,'' Williams said. "There are a number of things that are brought up in rumor fashion. You just don't go there.''

You go there if you want to clean up the game. The game is more important than how the Sox fare in a particular season, especially when Thomas and many Sox players were openly crusading against steroids. But the mind-set was that the union was almighty and the owners couldn't crack down if they wanted. Selig points to his tougher testing program, which began Thursday, but even that is a myth. How tough can it be when amphetamines and human growth hormone aren't tested? When four strikes are allowed before a season-long ban kicks in? When there are ways to shake detection?

"I still don't think it's good enough,'' Dodgers second baseman Jeff Kent told the San Francisco Chronicle. "I'm disappointed with Major League Baseball and the [players'] association for not implementing a plan that is completely solid. We need to prove to the fans that there's no question baseball should be clean and is clean, and we're not sending the right message with this policy.''

That's why I'm advocating full disclosure. See you March 17, gentlemen.

In my dreams.
 

azdad1978

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Selig: Steroid testing a success

By Jack Magruder, Tribune

When the one great scorer comes to mark upon baseball’s name, he may call the past half-decade the Steroid Era.

Baseball commissioner Bud Selig said Saturday he will not, adding that he believes that test results from the 2004 season indicate "we will effectively rid our sport of steroids in this coming season’’ while making his remarks at HoHoKam Park in Mesa.

Selig pronounced baseball’s two-year old testing policy for banned substances a success, announcing that between "one and two’’ percent of the 1,183 tests conduced last season were positive.

"I believe we’ve not only dealt with our problem," said Selig, "but we will finish what we started this year. There will always be some exceptions, but I am very comfortable in what we have done.

"I have no other deed in life except to do what is right for this sport.’’

Five to seven percent of the 2003 tests were positive, the first year that anabolic steroid testing was part of basic labor agreement between players and management, Selig said.

With steroid use a hotbutton topic this offseason, players adopted an even stricter policy than the one negotiated into the basic agreement in 2002, adding more testing and immediate, public penalties for even first offenders.

The substances banned in baseball’s new policy include steroids, steroid precursors such as androstenedione (that the body converts into testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH) and ephedrine. First-time offenders are subject to a 10-day suspension that would cost the average player $140,000, Selig said.

Selig said other substances could be added to the banned list as they become known.

Mark McGwire acknowledged using androstenedione when he set the major league home run record of 70 in 1998.

San Francisco’s Barry Bonds, who reportedly has told a federal grand jury that he used a cream and a clear substance supplied to him by a trainer indicted in a steroid distribution ring, enters this season with 703 homers, third in history behind Babe Ruth (714) and Hank Aaron (755).

Bonds hit a major league record 73 home runs in 1999. New York Yankees first baseman. Jason Giambi, who hit 163 home runs from 2000-2003 before missing most of last season with an intestinal parasite and a benign tumor on his pituitary gland, reportedly told a grand jury that he took steroids and HGH.

Selig said it is for others to judge if an asterisk belongs along side the recent home run records.

"There has always been a debate in each generation — the Dead Ball Era, the lively ball. They raised the mound. They lowered the mound. The different things that players did or didn’t do,’’ Selig said.

"There has always been some debate about the authenticity of things, because this player did that and this player didn’t do that. I didn’t say there shouldn’t be a debate. I just said we have done what we have to do. We have cleaned our sport up."

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=37516
 

BC867

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azdad1978 said:
By Jack Magruder, Tribune
Selig said it is for others to judge if an asterisk belongs along side the recent home run records.

"There has always been a debate in each generation — the Dead Ball Era, the lively ball. They raised the mound. They lowered the mound. The different things that players did or didn’t do,’’ Selig said.

"There has always been some debate about the authenticity of things, because this player did that and this player didn’t do that. I didn’t say there shouldn’t be a debate. I just said we have done what we have to do."
Yes, the former Brewers owner did what he had to do -- increase revenue and profits for the owners, by inflating the most spectacular single stat is sports - the homerun.
 

devilalum

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FinleyLover said:
In a related article from the NY Times- apparently several current players are being "invited" to testify, or if they refuse they will be subpoenaed. Curt's name is on this list. Anyone have any clue as to why??? :confused: :shrug:
Here's the link to the complete article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/05/sports/baseball/05steroids.html?ex=1110690000&en=a9d832969d6b7cf6&ei=5065&partner=MYWAY

Has Curt ever said he might run for some office when he is done with baseball? He sure seems to like the political spotlight.

The guy also loves to hear himself talk.
 

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FinleyLover said:
But what does that have to do with his potential involvement/knowledge of the steroid problem??
Can you imagine how boring the hearing would be if all they got were standard cliches, Canseco's shtick, or BaBo retreads? Congress wants some entertainment and knows that Curt is good with the soundbites; besides, they would have some photo-op chances with the big guy, a modern hero with bloody sock reminders, etc. ;)
 

UncleChris

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Congress may have reasons to believe that Curt has some inside knowledge.... Let's see what he says when he gets there....

Also.... It's interesting that HGH is banned, but they don't test for it.... Hmmmmmmmmmm :rolleyes:
 

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