MLB Steroid Melodrama

[FORKTUNG]

I think it wouldn't be good for Curt to snitch IMO.
Nothing in it for him but grief. Smacks of McCarthy days.

 

[FinleyLover]

Wha't kinda Big Brother about this is that they are focusing on players and persons of interest that they believe may know something. Just how and where did they get their information????

 

[devilalum]

But what does that have to do with his potential involvement/knowledge of the steroid problem??

My theory is that the Republicans invited Curt so he can blather about how steroids have copromised our great pasttime blah, blah, blah. Since he was practically Bush's running mate in the last election it will look good for the GOP.

 

[FinleyLover]

My theory is that the Republicans invited Curt so he can blather about how steroids have copromised our great pasttime blah, blah, blah. Since he was practically Bush's running mate in the last election it will look good for the GOP.

Good point!! LOL

 

[schillingfan]

I think both Curt and Frank Thomas have been strong advocates of steroid testing in the past.

They also are seeking testimony from medical experts. I think they overall focus is a national steroid policy and information seeking. Baseball is just a part of it.

In this case, I would be interested in the information the hearings generate. I don't know if there is a problem with youngsters taking steroids or not, but I'd like to know what's happening. I believe two people they asked to testify where parents of two youngsters who committed suicide while allegedly taking steroids.

 

[AZZenny]

I can assure you there is a problem with kids taking steroids, and there has been for over a decade. My former personal trainer was a major steroid dealer, as it turned out, and High School athletes were always hanging out in his office. After he was busted 10 years ago, since we were friends, he told me some of what he knew about local HS and college football teams, not to mention firemen and cops - It was always kind of interesting that despite getting nailed royally and bankrupted, all the formal charges ultimately disappeared. Guess he talked to other people, too.

When I taught at NAU 20 years ago one of my students came to talk to me about some potentially serious medical/psych problems he had developed because of steroids and therefore was afraid to have looked at - and he said ' lot of the guys that work out at the gym use them sometimes.'

This is nothing new. The suspicions are not new. Why not wait until the results of the first round of this years' tests come back and see if MLB has a handle on the problem or not? To say that NOW the government needs to clean up baseball is utter bullcrap grandstanding.


To borrow a phrase from Barry, a lot more kids have committed suicide from using Prozac, or from alcohol. I don't like steroids, I think they're unhealthy and dishonest in sports, and I believe in asterisks - but government crusades scare the bejeezus out of me.

 

[FinleyLover]

To borrow a phrase from Barry, a lot more kids have committed suicide from using Prozac, or from alcohol. I don't like steroids, I think they're unhealthy and dishonest in sports, and I believe in asterisks - but government crusades scare the bejeezus out of me.

No kidding. This is exactly what it is.

 

[UncleChris]

You're right about fire fighters, Pam. I once caught my engineer (driver) with gonadotropin in his possession.... and he's not the only one, I can assure you. While it is, in fact, uncommon here, it's certainly not unheard of (or unseen, for that matter). :

 

[Lefty]

Looks like McGwire was lying, not Jose

Probe links McGwire to steroids in '90s
ESPN.com news services


Five days before the House Government Reform Committee is scheduled to question current and former major-league baseball players about steroids, one of the subpoened players, Mark McGwire, has emerged as a prominent figure of a month-long investigation by the New York Daily News.

Citing FBI sources, the newspaper reported that McGwire's name came up several times in a landmark anabolic steroids investigation that led to 70 convictions in the early 1990s.

While evidence against McGwire was never collected and he was not a target in the investigation, two steroid dealers caught in the probe told the Daily News that another dealer provided McGwire and Jose Canseco, among others, with illegal anabolic steroids.

The Daily News said an informant told the paper that a California man named Curtis Wenzlaff injected McGwire on several occassions at a gym in Southern California. A former member of the gym where McGwire and Wenzlaff allegedly worked out together told the paper that he heard the two discuss steroids.

According to one of the informants, who the FBI said provided credible information throughout its probe, McGwire's regimen reportedly included injecting himself in the buttocks once every three days with two testosterone substances and weekly with another.

When contacted by the Daily News, Wenzlaff had no comment about the McGwire accounts but admitted turning Canseco from a novice into an expert steroid user.

According to the paper, representatives for McGwire and Canseco said the two did not remember meeting Wenzlaff and were not aware their names came up in the investigation.

"We're not going to comment on anything at this time but we believe one should consider the sources of such allegations," McGwire's representative said.

"Jose doesn't want to deny knowing him, but he just doesn't remember the guy," Canseco's attorney said.

McGwire has always denied using steroids, including as recently as last month, when Canseco's book was published.

Wenzlaff was introduced to the A's by longtime friend Reggie Jackson, who Wenzlaff insists never used steroids or knew that Wenzlaff was dealing them.

 

[schillingfan]

Here is the New York Daily News story.

Cheat Sheet

Here's a look at the steroid cocktail FBI informants say Mark McGwire took to become big in the '90s:

# 1/2 cc of testosterone cypionate every three days

# 1 cc of testosterone enanthate per week

# 1/4 cc of equipoise and winstrol v every three days, injected intothe buttocks, one shot for one cheek, one shot for the other

New York Daily News

 

[AZZenny]

Wenzlaff was introduced to the A's by longtime friend Reggie Jackson, who Wenzlaff insists never used steroids or knew that Wenzlaff was dealing them.

If we're going to come clean, let's go all the way, fellas.

 

[ajcardfan]

Did anybody, besides Tony LaRussa, believe McGwire was clean?

It's a damn shame. It really is. I wonder what the Maris' think about it?

 

[Brian]

Did anybody, besides Tony LaRussa, believe McGwire was clean?

It's a damn shame. It really is. I wonder what the Maris' think about it?

Couldn't agree more. I have a new respect for Roger Maris.

 

[RLakin]

Couldn't agree more. I have a new respect for Roger Maris.

And less for LaRussa.

 

[Lefty]

Wenzlaff was introduced to the A's by longtime friend Reggie Jackson, who Wenzlaff insists never used steroids or knew that Wenzlaff was dealing them.

If we're going to come clean, let's go all the way, fellas.

Reggie Jackson has been a big proponent of steroid testing. He has been quoted many times that he thinks Bonds and others should be tested. I highly doubt Reggie ever took steroids, especially since he was at the very end of his career when it seems players were first starting to use.

I believe the owners knew, including Selig, and they are trying to cover their butts. I am not a fan of Jose and thought writing his book was a no no, but now that it is out I hope we get to the truth.

In my opinion McGwire, Bonds, Sosa and all the other guys have astericks in front of their names.

 

[AZZenny]

You may be right about Reggie, although this friendship seems an odd coincidence. But the movie Pumping Iron came out in 1977 - and Ahhhnold and others with high profiles were using well before that. Steroids have been widely used by athletes for over 30 years, contrary to all the buzz about them right now.

The other day I heard someone comment that the BEST thing gov't could do to change the way kids look at steroid use is to cleanly and viciously bust several high profile athletes, actors, etc. and give them a federal rap and some actual prison time - just like the five Connecticut kids will face - not immunity. Put them on Court TV, not C-Span.



Quoted: Couldn't agree more. I have a new respect for Roger Maris.

And less for LaRussa.

It's possible to have less?!

 

[BC867]

Couldn't agree more. I have a new respect for Roger Maris.

Baseball fans hated Maris, and baseball put an asterisk next to his 61 HR season, not really because of the 162 vs 154 game schedule, but because he was a mediocre hitter who achieved greatness just one time.

Roger was simply doing the best he could. Having the fortune of batting ahead of Mickey Mantle in the lineup led to a plateau that people felt he had not earned.

Many fans also resented Henry Aaron for breaking Babe Ruth's all-time 714 because he never had a superstar HR season, but rather consistent HR hitting over a long career.

Let's see now how MLB, the fans, the sportwriters, etc., react to the guys who cheated to join the elite -- Bonds, Palmiero, Sosa, etc.

And to the baseball executives from "commissioner" Bud Selig (the former car salesman), to the owners, to the General Managers, to the field Managers who looked the other way, to distort the records and put more money in their pockets.

It's not a simple issue, but it sure has stunk up a sport which, more than any other, reveres lifetime stats.

 

[Town Drunk]

Maris popped greenies while he was playing. So if these allegations are in fact true, I'm sure he'd just shrug his shoulders.

 

[devilalum]

Baseball fans hated Maris, and baseball put an asterisk next to his 61 HR season, not really because of the 162 vs 154 game schedule, but because he was a mediocre hitter who achieved greatness just one time.

Roger was simply doing the best he could. Having the fortune of batting ahead of Mickey Mantle in the lineup led to a plateau that people felt he had not earned.

Many fans also resented Henry Aaron for breaking Babe Ruth's all-time 714 because he never had a superstar HR season, but rather consistent HR hitting over a long career.

Let's see now how MLB, the fans, the sportwriters, etc., react to the guys who cheated to join the elite -- Bonds, Palmiero, Sosa, etc.

And to the baseball executives from "commissioner" Bud Selig (the former car salesman), to the owners, to the General Managers, to the field Managers who looked the other way, to distort the records and put more money in their pockets.

It's not a simple issue, but it sure has stunk up a sport which, more than any other, reveres lifetime stats.

IMO this will always be known as the steroid era or the start of the steroid era but it just adds to the history of the sport. Baseball more than any other sport is filled with cheaters. Spit balls, corked bats, sandpaper, if you can imagine it it has been tried. No amount of testing or rules changes are going to stop cheating and why would you want it any other way?

 

[moviegeekjn]

IMO this will always be known as the steroid era or the start of the steroid era but it just adds to the history of the sport. Baseball more than any other sport is filled with cheaters. Spit balls, corked bats, sandpaper, if you can imagine it it has been tried. No amount of testing or rules changes are going to stop cheating and why would you want it any other way?

Historically correct... One thing that struck me again when re-viewing Ken Burns' documentary series. Throughout the ages, baseball players have always sought an edge of some sort to beat their opponents and improve their performance.

The one "cheating" item that is not tolerated is cheating for a negative performance; hence the Black Sox scandal and the inviolatable rule against gambling. Actually, the Black Sox scandal was the most blatant and high profile--that type of thing was apparently fairly commonplace before 1919... just not as high profile.

Due to pressure and public outcry, it appears now that baseball no longer can turn a blind eye to steroid use and abuse, but we'll now have a generation of ballplayers who will forever be labelled as playing in the "steroid era" that will contrast radically with earlier eras.

 

[moviegeekjn]

And less for LaRussa.

From the clips I've seen... it appears that LaRussa has significantly altered his previous stance. While he then stated that there was no way that McGwire used steroids, he's now curtly stating "I believe Mark." Reading between the lines, that's a significant legal difference.

 

[NickelBack]

Maris popped greenies while he was playing. So if these allegations are in fact true, I'm sure he'd just shrug his shoulders.

Great point....

 

[schutd]

From the clips I've seen... it appears that LaRussa has significantly altered his previous stance. While he then stated that there was no way that McGwire used steroids, he's now curtly stating "I believe Mark." Reading between the lines, that's a significant legal difference.

Better still, the exact quote from LaRussa was "I believe IN Mark" and that is much different that "I Believe Mark"

 

[moviegeekjn]

Better still, the exact quote from LaRussa was "I believe IN Mark" and that is much different that "I Believe Mark"

Good point.. LaRussa has a law degree, btw

 

[Russ Smith]

Wenzlaff was introduced to the A's by longtime friend Reggie Jackson, who Wenzlaff insists never used steroids or knew that Wenzlaff was dealing them.

If we're going to come clean, let's go all the way, fellas.

Yeah that's been my comment for years about Bonds when people say he used steroids(before it was known for sure). Look at pictures of a young Reggie, and Reggie as he got older, he got HUGE. I mean Dave Parker was always big but Reggie got massively bigger during his career and nobody ever said he was using anything.

Sounds like he probably was.