Moving up scenarios

[Hoop Head]

That’s 100% conjecture on your part because we NEVER heard a single word that questioned his commitment or drive. Literally NEVER. So you’re really making that up if it’s an argument you’re relying on.

IN YOUR OPINION there’s a better chance he ends up helping a team than fading into oblivion. But the reality is, more draft picks (even top draft picks) fail than succeed, so there’s actually a better chance that he fades into oblivion than he ends up helping team, if you’re going to view things objectively

OMG, what is wrong with you. Seriously. Yes, it's conjecture, it's my opinion, I'm stating it's how I feel. What it wrong with that on a message board? You're as bad as your brother. You act like you're an absolute authority on what can and can't be and god forbid you don't share similar thoughts on something as someone because you'll just complain about it being "conjecture" when that's what makes up 90% of fan discussion.

 

[Hoop Head]

See when you say “Young should end up being no worse than in the top 3 in assists every year“ I wonder how you define the word “should.” There’s no “should” for draft picks. I could see “he might” or “I think” but “should?” No. No one knows how these kids will translate to the pro game. Particularly not a kid whose athleticism is questioned. There’s DEFINITELY no “should” for him.

People say Ayton should do a lot of things for the Suns, difference there is he is the consensus #1 pick and virtually everyone here views him as a godsend. Haven't seen you raise objection to any of that though. Except you don't think Young will be special, while others do, and rather than just saying you don't see it, you want to argue about not seeing it. Like somehow someone will convince you that he'll be great or they'll join your side and be more skeptical of him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

OMG, what is wrong with you. Seriously. Yes, it's conjecture, it's my opinion, I'm stating it's how I feel. What it wrong with that on a message board? You're as bad as your brother. You act like you're an absolute authority on what can and can't be and god forbid you don't share similar thoughts on something as someone because you'll just complain about it being "conjecture" when that's what makes up 90% of fan discussion.

Because you state your opinion as if it’s fact. That’s what’s wrong with me. Newsflash: when you say “the sky is red” you’re making a statement as if it’s a fact. When you say “I think the sky is red” you are stating your opinion. You do the former ALL THE TIME.

 

[Hoop Head]

Because you state your opinion as if it’s fact. That’s what’s wrong with me. Newsflash: when you say “the sky is red” you’re making a statement as if it’s a fact. When you say “I think the sky is red” you are stating your opinion. You do the former ALL THE TIME.

I've posted about what I think Young will be in the NBA, like others have, that's what people think, that's what they post, you do the same thing. You just did it with Doncic in the other thread. "He’s an ultimate complimentary player." Yeah, him averaging 4 assists a game and shooting 32% from 3, that'll compliment Booker, Jackson, and Ayton quite well.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

People say Ayton should do a lot of things for the Suns, difference there is he is the consensus #1 pick and virtually everyone here views him as a godsend. Haven't seen you raise objection to any of that though. Except you don't think Young will be special, while others do, and rather than just saying you don't see it, you want to argue about not seeing it. Like somehow someone will convince you that he'll be great or they'll join your side and be more skeptical of him.

Actually there you go again misstating MY opinion. I’ve never said I don’t think young is special. In fact, I’m in record in multiple threads saying I’d consider trading up for him. So, there you go again stating something as fact that just isn’t (“...you don’t think Young will be special” - WRONG. Not a fact.). And when you do so you mislead other readers because instead of stating it’s yiur opinion that i don’t think young is special you (incorrectly) state it as fact.

Can you see the difference in the following statements:

Poop Head is a racist.

I think Poop Head is a racist.

VERY different statements. A reader would read them MUCH differently. Don’t you think?

I like Young, but I’m also able to admit that his physical and athletic limitations may be his undoing. I’m willing to gamble on him. But I’m realistic enough to not make a statement of fact out of my opinion.

And as for Ayton, I’m realistic about him too. He could bust. He could be lacking in drive. He could be lacking in defensive awareness or desire. I don’t think anything’s a given with ANY prospect. And thus I don’t make statements of FACT about any of them unless it is ACTUALLY A - you know - PROVEN FACT.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I've posted about what I think Young will be in the NBA, like others have, that's what people think, that's what they post, you do the same thing. You just did it with Doncic in the other thread. "He’s an ultimate complimentary player." Yeah, him averaging 4 assists a game and shooting 32% from 3, that'll compliment Booker, Jackson, and Ayton quite well.

Nice job of taking a quote out of context to try to win your argument. What phrase did I precede that comment with? Something along the lines of “if he’s all that he’s rumored to be . . .” Which modifies the comment you quote out of context. I didn’t say it as factual. I said IF he’s what he’s rumored to be THEN he would be the ultimate complimentary player. I made it clear that my thought was conjecture and not a fact.

 

[Hoop Head]

Actually there you go again misstating MY opinion. I’ve never said I don’t think young is special. In fact, I’m in record in multiple threads saying I’d consider trading up for him. So, there you go again stating something as fact that just isn’t (“...you don’t think Young will be special” - WRONG. Not a fact.). And when you do so you mislead other readers because instead of stating it’s yiur opinion that i don’t think young is special you (incorrectly) state it as fact.

Can you see the difference in the following statements:

Poop Head is a racist.

I think Poop Head is a racist.

VERY different statements. A reader would read them MUCH differently. Don’t you think?

I like Young, but I’m also able to admit that his physical and athletic limitations may be his undoing. I’m willing to gamble on him. But I’m realistic enough to not make a statement of fact out of my opinion.

And as for Ayton, I’m realistic about him too. He could bust. He could be lacking in drive. He could be lacking in defensive awareness or desire. I don’t think anything’s a given with ANY prospect. And thus I don’t make statements of FACT about any of them unless it is ACTUALLY A - you know - PROVEN FACT.

I'm not stating my opinion as fact, where am I doing that? By saying Young should be in the top 3 in assists in the NBA? That's fact to you, when I'm guessing what Young will become? Sure, ok. I'll buy that. I said that you didn't like Young by how you're trying to pick apart every post I make about what I believe Young is capable of doing. I don't believe I was stating anything as fact, I said SHOULD specifically because there are reasons he may not, but it's hard to see those. Do I really need to go out of my way to state in each post I put where I project what a player might be able to do in the league, state that that's my opinion and not to be taken factual? Didn't think all that would be necessary on a message board where a ton of fans do the same thing all the time.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not stating my opinion as fact, where am I doing that? By saying Young should be in the top 3 in assists in the NBA? That's fact to you, when I'm guessing what Young will become? Sure, ok. I'll buy that. I said that you didn't like Young by how you're trying to pick apart every post I make about what I believe Young is capable of doing. I don't believe I was stating anything as fact, I said SHOULD specifically because there are reasons he may not, but it's hard to see those. Do I really need to go out of my way to state in each post I put where I project what a player might be able to do in the league, state that that's my opinion and not to be taken factual? Didn't think all that would be necessary on a message board where a ton of fans do the same thing all the time.

Eh maybe “should” as a modifier should have sufficed for me. It just seems a tad strong to say anyone SHOULD do anything at another level. I’ll let it go.

 

[Hoop Head]

Eh maybe “should” as a modifier should have sufficed for me. It just seems a tad strong to say anyone SHOULD do anything at another level. I’ll let it go.

I really don't want to fight, I don't know how this turned into that. I've re-read all of the posts between 2 threads and I'm not even sure anymore. It bouncing between threads didn't help keep it straight though. I don't know. I'm tired, I definitely wasn't looking to fight with someone over something so trivial, especially someone I've never even argued with much in the past. So I'm just tossing up my hands and saying I quit, I'm done. I'm not even sure what the point was anymore because we got arguing about how to properly argue or something.

No ill intent, I'm letting all of this go. Sorry if I said anything out of line.

 

[leclerc]

What I do mean is given:

A
Drive
Exceptional skills
Physical limitations

B
Drive
Decent skills
Exceptional physical ability

Player B more often succeeds in the NBA.

 

[leclerc]

Until the draft let's everyone sign our posts with IMO just as a reminder

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I really don't want to fight, I don't know how this turned into that. I've re-read all of the posts between 2 threads and I'm not even sure anymore. It bouncing between threads didn't help keep it straight though. I don't know. I'm tired, I definitely wasn't looking to fight with someone over something so trivial, especially someone I've never even argued with much in the past. So I'm just tossing up my hands and saying I quit, I'm done. I'm not even sure what the point was anymore because we got arguing about how to properly argue or something.

No ill intent, I'm letting all of this go. Sorry if I said anything out of line.

No worries. Nothing outta line. This is the way of the board. These things take on a life of their own sometimes. Apologies from my end as well if I ruffled feathers unnecessarily.

And now back to substantive items . . .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What I do mean is given:

A
Drive
Exceptional skills
Physical limitations

B
Drive
Decent skills
Exceptional physical ability

Player B more often succeeds in the NBA.

Yes I’d agree with that because skills can be acquired with the drive. Physical limitations (such as height and overall frame) can’t. You can build muscle but you can’t increase the size of your skeleton to be taller or carry more weight/strength effectively.

 

[JCSunsfan]

What I do mean is given:

A
Drive
Exceptional skills
Physical limitations

B
Drive
Decent skills
Exceptional physical ability

Player B more often succeeds in the NBA.

Player A has a ceiling that player B does not.

 

[pokerface]

Until the draft let's everyone sign our posts with IMO just as a reminder

Ahhhhh...Tell me we aren't having the time of our lives right now. I dare ya!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ahhhhh...Tell me we aren't having the time of our lives right now. I dare ya!

It reminds me of Christmas when I was a kid.

 

[Errntknght]

I didn’t make that clear. I would do that trade if Doncic were available. Likely no one else. MAYBE for young, maybe.

I'd trade down for Mo Bamba, too, along with Doncic. Definite no for Young in my case - not so much that I think he'll bust but he's just such a bad fit for us. You ought to pair him with a tough defender at SG and Booker needs to pair with a strong defender as well - a 3&D PG, if such a creature exists. I know a lot of people are downplaying defensive guys in the backcourt but my thinking is the opposite of that - particularly defending against the three. If a PG was an ordinary defender against driving guards but was great at running guys off the arc I'd jump on him. Not only were we the worst 3pt shooting team this year, we were third worst at surrending threes.

 

[sdscard4]

Page 6 made me nauseous. Like strobe light nauseous.

 

[Errntknght]

Page 6 made me nauseous. Like strobe light nauseous.

You gotta know when it is time to just skim lightly...

 

[pokerface]

I'd trade down for Mo Bamba, too, along with Doncic. Definite no for Young in my case - not so much that I think he'll bust but he's just such a bad fit for us. You ought to pair him with a tough defender at SG and Booker needs to pair with a strong defender as well - a 3&D PG, if such a creature exists. I know a lot of people are downplaying defensive guys in the backcourt but my thinking is the opposite of that - particularly defending against the three. If a PG was an ordinary defender against driving guards but was great at running guys off the arc I'd jump on him. Not only were we the worst 3pt shooting team this year, we were third worst at surrending threes.

The player you want and I want is
SHAI GILGEOUS-ALEXANDER at pg.

 

[Dr. Jones]

The player you want and I want is
SHAI GILGEOUS-ALEXANDER at pg.

Mine is Sexton. And he is a possibility between 9 and 13.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Sun Devil Mania]

Mine is Sexton. And he is a possibility between 9 and 13.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Sexton = Bledsoe = No Thanks!

 

[Ronin]

I like Sexton. Just not on this team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I was high in Sexton until someone made the Bledsoe comparison. I liked his attacking nature, his putting the team on his back - particularly when he put up 40 in playing 3 on 5 and leading his team to the tourney. But the Bledsoe company gave me pause and cause to look into his game more deeply. His lack of facilitation causes me the greatest concern that he could be Bledsoe. And if he is, he’s not what I want for the suns.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I was high in Sexton until someone made the Bledsoe comparison. I liked his attacking nature, his putting the team on his back - particularly when he put up 40 in playing 3 on 5 and leading his team to the tourney. But the Bledsoe company gave me pause and cause to look into his game more deeply. His lack of facilitation causes me the greatest concern that he could be Bledsoe. And if he is, he’s not what I want for the suns.

The more research I do, the more I'm warming to SGA. I don't see him becoming a star (or at least I like Sexton's chances better), but the Suns don't really need a star; they need the right fit. SGA definitely seems to be the best fit on paper. I thought this video was pretty illuminating:

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