Murray to Cards a "done deal"

[DRM08]

Tell that to Mahommes & Mayfield whom played in the same poor defense conference along with Goff in the weak PAC 12.

I said 3 years ago I didn’t trust a QB from the Air Raid at the NFL level & now the last 3 have been $money$.

Times are a changing fellas. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

Times are changing for sure. Teams like the Chiefs have straight up stolen some of Kliff's college playcalls. You never would have imagined that one 10 years ago in the NFL.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

You're the biggest homer for this clod Rosen, he's awful. Immature spoiled brat rich kid. I'll give someone else a chance, even Bosa

Where do you get that from? I haven't seen anything that says he's immature. He took a brutal beating this year, and got back up each and every time. Never whined to the media...never heard one complaint about him from the locker room (and there are guys on the team that would have talked, if he did). All evidence points to him having a pretty good head on his shoulders...active in the community, has causes he's passionate about, etc. So what if he's a little aloof with his sense of humor or personality.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

They wanted Baker Mayfield last year and only took Rosen as a consolation prize because they knew they needed a QB.

Actually, they wanted Josh Allen. Was talked about on TV this morning, even.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm still very skeptical of it and frankly I'm skeptical Josh is only worth a 3rd rounder I suspect teams figure the Cards are testing the waters so they're going to leak out 3rd round just to see what feedback that brings.

Unless the Cards are just convinced Josh is not the guy but outside of Keim, who is still around to make that call? I mean I can't believe anybody on the prior coaching staff still has enough pull with the organization to convince them Josh is not the guy, there's a reason they all got fired so quickly.

I would only do this move if the Cards can get a first rounder for Josh, if that's not possible you're trading a guy you used a 1st, 3rd and 5th on, after one year to go to a very unproven QB in Murray. HIring KK defied convention but drafting a kid #1 overall who went into last year with 8 Td's and & 7 INT's in 2 short stints at A&M before going to OU would REALLY be out on a limb. If you get a 3rd back for Josh you're giving up the chance to take Bosa and Josh, for Murray, he better be good.

If you watch the highlights again the guys are wide open, no pressure on him and he has that hitch in his motion where he pats the ball then it goes back and then zips forward. The end of his release is a thing of beauty, snaps it off quickly but it takes awhile to get to that point so many of the throws in his highlight package have a WR slowing up to wait for the ball again, not lack of arm but slow release. If the Cards and KK think they can coach that out of him then yeah he's intriguing.

I think it would be a massive gamble and again if it's me you need a first rounder for Josh. The perfect scenario is take Bosa, wait for Washington or whoever to be on the board, if Murray is there, take him make the trade, otherwise stand pat. If they take Murray #1 overall frankly I wouldn't even trade Josh I'd let them both go into camp and compete for the job and eventually trade the loser.

 

[Shane]

I'm still very skeptical of it and frankly I'm skeptical Josh is only worth a 3rd rounder I suspect teams figure the Cards are testing the waters so they're going to leak out 3rd round just to see what feedback that brings.

Unless the Cards are just convinced Josh is not the guy but outside of Keim, who is still around to make that call? I mean I can't believe anybody on the prior coaching staff still has enough pull with the organization to convince them Josh is not the guy, there's a reason they all got fired so quickly.

I would only do this move if the Cards can get a first rounder for Josh, if that's not possible you're trading a guy you used a 1st, 3rd and 5th on, after one year to go to a very unproven QB in Murray. HIring KK defied convention but drafting a kid #1 overall who went into last year with 8 Td's and & 7 INT's in 2 short stints at A&M before going to OU would REALLY be out on a limb. If you get a 3rd back for Josh you're giving up the chance to take Bosa and Josh, for Murray, he better be good.

If you watch the highlights again the guys are wide open, no pressure on him and he has that hitch in his motion where he pats the ball then it goes back and then zips forward. The end of his release is a thing of beauty, snaps it off quickly but it takes awhile to get to that point so many of the throws in his highlight package have a WR slowing up to wait for the ball again, not lack of arm but slow release. If the Cards and KK think they can coach that out of him then yeah he's intriguing.

I think it would be a massive gamble and again if it's me you need a first rounder for Josh. The perfect scenario is take Bosa, wait for Washington or whoever to be on the board, if Murray is there, take him make the trade, otherwise stand pat. If they take Murray #1 overall frankly I wouldn't even trade Josh I'd let them both go into camp and compete for the job and eventually trade the loser.

QBs are way to valuable especially young ones most experts think can be a franchise QB... He is def worth more then a 3rd I’d say kid to late 1st IMO

 

[Ohcrap75]

Where do you get that from? I haven't seen anything that says he's immature. He took a brutal beating this year, and got back up each and every time. Never whined to the media...never heard one complaint about him from the locker room (and there are guys on the team that would have talked, if he did). All evidence points to him having a pretty good head on his shoulders...active in the community, has causes he's passionate about, etc. So what if he's a little aloof with his sense of humor or personality.

Agree 100%... His play on the field had nothing to do with a bad attitude or personality. If anything it proves the opposite because there were plenty of times he could've been negative and he didn't.

 

[Town Drunk]

NBC Sports' Peter King was told the Cardinals might only get a third-round pick for Josh Rosen.
"Probably a three," a "renowned NFL GM" told King. "Not what the Cardinals would think his value is." The Cardinals are reportedly planning to select Kyler Murray with the No. 1 overall pick, meaning they need to trade Rosen. Owed a total of $1.98 million in base salary over the next three seasons with minimal roster bonuses, Rosen's contract will be extremely team-friendly for whichever organization trades for him. Teams with aging starters, like the Patriots and Chargers, will likely take a long look if Rosen is actually available.

SOURCE: Football Morning in America
Mar 4, 2019, 6:55 AM

 

[PDXChris]

From a pure numbers standpoint, this does not make sense. I am super intrigued by Kyler, but he is a total enigma because of his size and you can't take a change like that when you look at the other pieces. You cannot trade Rosen away for a mid 2nd pick, which is the rumor at this point and then take the $ 8 million cap hit. If Kyler was head a shoulders the next super star QB, you do it without thinking twice. No one know what Kyler will be, not even Shane. The risk does not out weigh the reward in this case.

Based on all of that and who our HC is now, I do fully expect us to trade Rosen to Washington for a 2nd round pick and then take Kyler #1 overall. I think it's a mistake, but I won't be upset.

 

[HGC]

NBC Sports' Peter King was told the Cardinals might only get a third-round pick for Josh Rosen.
"Probably a three," a "renowned NFL GM" told King. "Not what the Cardinals would think his value is." The Cardinals are reportedly planning to select Kyler Murray with the No. 1 overall pick, meaning they need to trade Rosen. Owed a total of $1.98 million in base salary over the next three seasons with minimal roster bonuses, Rosen's contract will be extremely team-friendly for whichever organization trades for him. Teams with aging starters, like the Patriots and Chargers, will likely take a long look if Rosen is actually available.

SOURCE: Football Morning in America
Mar 4, 2019, 6:55 AM

Michael Bidwil is a spineless idiot if he allows Steve Keim to deal Rosen for a 3rd and draft Murray #1. Keim’s a joke if he does this.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I have gone back & watched entire OU games last year. It's uncanny how few times he does get hit, even when it's obvious he's about to take a blow. Some on this board have compared him to RG3. That couldn't be further from the truth. RG3's career ended because he never learned to slide or avoid the big hits. The only thing RG3 had over Murray was size. Murray is far more elusive, far faster, far more accurate, and has much better field vision. I listened to an interview with him recently. Someone asked him if his size has made it harder to be a QB. He answered that when he's on the field, he's confident that he's the best football player out there. He said that more than makes up for his perceived lack of size.

Very nice sir, and you're certainly correct about how Murray is able to avoid contact.

When on the run, Murray only fights for yards when he has to (e.g. to get a crucial first down). Otherwise, he takes the ten or fifteen yards given to him, and slides.

PAcardsFan, the info in your post is what gives me some confidence that Murray can run effectively in the NFL, yet stay healthy enough to have a long pro career.

 

[Russ Smith]

Very nice sir, and you're certainly correct about how Murray is able to avoid contact.

When on the run, Murray only fights for yards when he has to (e.g. to get a crucial first down). Otherwise, he takes the ten or fifteen yards given to him, and slides.

PAcardsFan, the info in your post is what gives me some confidence that Murray can run effectively in the NFL, yet stay healthy enough to have a long pro career.

That's the part that I find intriguing about Murray and remember I'm the guy who always says running QB's are overrated you want a guy like Rodgers who is just elusive enough to buy time to find the guy downfield, or get the big first down. Maybe the young QB who does that best is Wilson, he drives me nuts the way he flips the ball away and never gets called for grounding, and runs out of bounds, but it's because you want your team to get him and they can't. If you watch highlights of Murray when the rare occasion happens where someone pressures him and he has to move, it's uncanny as you said how infrequently he gets hit. He just runs until there's nothing left and slides or goes out of bounds. The problem with running QB's is they get hit and get hurt, it's the guys like Wilson, and Rodgers who are smart enough to avoid those hits that last. The one year of Murray playing it appears he may be one of those guys, just hard to know.

If he does that in the NFL at his size and speed and elusiveness, and like Wilson has those eyes in the back of the head to avoid the big hits you can't see coming, he actually could be a really good player. But he's only had 1 year of real playing time and in a situation where he was simply not tested that much.

It's intriguing as hell you could be getting Wilson part 2, with a stronger arm and a faster guy, but it's just impossible to know, Wilson played so much more in college than Murray has.

 

[Arz101]

Every NFL media guy covering Cardinals:

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[BW52]

Tell that to Mahommes & Mayfield whom played in the same poor defense conference along with Goff in the weak PAC 12.

I said 3 years ago I didn’t trust a QB from the Air Raid at the NFL level & now the last 3 have been $money$.

Times are a changing fellas. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

Mahomes and Mayfield aren't 5'10 are they fella?

 

[ajcardfan]

Seems strange for a head coach to make such a dramatic statement about draft plans. I guess one can argue they are trying to get a bidding war going for Rosen.

Other than when we went to the Super Bowl, I can't remember another time where this franchise got so much attention.

 

[Harry]

Lots of silly stuff to unpack in this thread but don’t write this off as smoke.

First, would I draft Murray first? No!
Second, if they have actually decided to take Murray, there’s no harm in telling people. They can actually start contract negotiations. If that breaks down they can change strategy.
Third, Warner is way wrong. I’m not sure the Cards could get a first, but maybe. They definitely could get at least a second.
Fourth, by announcing this now teams like the Dolphins that weren’t likely profiling Rosen last year can now go back and study tape. All the teams can look at him versus NFL defenses. That will tell them more than his UCLA career. Someone could fall in love with him. I’m telling you that there are scouts out there that see much to like about Rosen.
Fifth, the Cards would now know how their offense would look and which draft picks would best fit this new reality.
Sixth, the coaching staff could redesign how the preseason camps to proceed to install a Murray-led offense including RPO plays. The blocking schemes would have to change.
Seventh, which free agents to chase would be altered by deciding on Murray. That pool opens in a little more than a week.

There are other smaller adjustments, but in the end making this decision sooner than later could work to the Cards’ advantage. Like I said I’d stick with Rosen, but I can see the appeal of Murray. He’s a phenomenal athlete.

 

[BW52]

The blind faith the the Murray fans seem to believe is that little 5'10 under 200 lb Murray is going to defy all known facts and history and going to take the league by storm is bordering on fanaticism. Hasn't happened before and seriously doubt it happens with Murray no matter what his disciples think.

 

[Russ Smith]

Lots of silly stuff to unpack in this thread but don’t write this off as smoke.

First, would I draft Murray first? No!
Second, if they have actually decided to take Murray, there’s no harm in telling people. They can actually start contract negotiations. If that breaks down they can change strategy.
Third, Warner is way wrong. I’m not sure the Cards could get a first, but maybe. They definitely could get at least a second.
Fourth, by announcing this now teams like the Dolphins that weren’t likely profiling Rosen last year can now go back and study tape. All the teams can look at him versus NFL defenses. That will tell them more than his UCLA career. Someone could fall in love with him. I’m telling you that there are scouts out there that see much to like about Rosen.
Fifth, the Cards would now know how their offense would look and which draft picks would best fit this new reality.
Sixth, the coaching staff could redesign how the preseason camps to proceed to install a Murray-led offense including RPO plays. The blocking schemes would have to change.
Seventh, which free agents to chase would be altered by deciding on Murray. That pool opens in a little more than a week.

There are other smaller adjustments, but in the end making this decision sooner than later could work to the Cards’ advantage. Like I said I’d stick with Rosen, but I can see the appeal of Murray. He’s a phenomenal athlete.

Totally agree with #1, even if he's your top pick on the board it's highly unlikely anybody else will take him that high so you move in a way that says if we get him we trade Rosen, if we don't get him, we keep Rosen. You can't do a scenario where you trade Rosen, trade down and then someone else sneaks up and takes Murray out from under you.

I agree on the other points taking Him over Rosen completely changes things in your offense so you have to draft and sign accordingly.

I still don't think it's going to happen but it sure is getting buzz right now.

 

[Buckybird]

Mahomes and Mayfield aren't 5'10 are they fella?

Tell me how many balls did Murray have batted down last season at the LOS please. Also, are the NFL Olineman taller at the NFL level than the college level? Hmmmm

I get it, but some of the negatives that people are bringing up aren’t the big issue they are making them out to be.

 

[Russ Smith]

Tell me how many balls did Murray have batted down last season at the LOS please. Also, are the NFL Olineman taller at the NFL level than the college level? Hmmmm

I get it, but some of the negatives that people are bringing up aren’t the big issue they are making them out to be.

https://www.sbnation.com/2019/2/15/18224037/kyler-murray-height-short

This makes that point, of the top rated QB's he tied for the fewest batted down.

It is interesting that 2 of them came in the same game against UCLA too because it might indicate he learned something and changed behavior. 2 in one game 3 in the rest of the season. Or may have just been a fluke.

I'm mainly worried about lack of reps, if you read scouting reports over and over people talk about guys are wide open by scheme and he rarely has to read defenses at OU because the first or second read is wide open. That's just not going to be the case in the NFL, even an experienced kid like Rosen struggled mightily with that. Hopefully our OL and WR's will be better than this past year but it's asking so much of a rookie as it is, when he's only really played one year of college asking him to make reads in the NFL is a huge task.

 

[TJ]

Colin Cowherd just reported that John Gruden would consider Kyler Murray despite having Carr.

Don't believe everything you read and hear, guys

 

[cardpa]

I guess you can't handle the truth.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Lots of silly stuff to unpack in this thread but don’t write this off as smoke.

First, would I draft Murray first? No!
Second, if they have actually decided to take Murray, there’s no harm in telling people. They can actually start contract negotiations. If that breaks down they can change strategy.
Third, Warner is way wrong. I’m not sure the Cards could get a first, but maybe. They definitely could get at least a second.
Fourth, by announcing this now teams like the Dolphins that weren’t likely profiling Rosen last year can now go back and study tape. All the teams can look at him versus NFL defenses. That will tell them more than his UCLA career. Someone could fall in love with him. I’m telling you that there are scouts out there that see much to like about Rosen.
Fifth, the Cards would now know how their offense would look and which draft picks would best fit this new reality.
Sixth, the coaching staff could redesign how the preseason camps to proceed to install a Murray-led offense including RPO plays. The blocking schemes would have to change.
Seventh, which free agents to chase would be altered by deciding on Murray. That pool opens in a little more than a week.

There are other smaller adjustments, but in the end making this decision sooner than later could work to the Cards’ advantage. Like I said I’d stick with Rosen, but I can see the appeal of Murray. He’s a phenomenal athlete.

I also think the Cardinals are getting a free evaluation of Rosen's talent by other teams who are making trade offers. In essence, they actually might not draft Murray by not only them believing in him but seeing how other teams concur in having faith in Rosen too

 

[Ohcrap75]

The main reason this whole scenario is incredibly foolish to me is because of the draft value that we would be giving up. Lets say we trade Rosen for the 8th pick in the second round. The value of the pick is 500. The value of the #1 overall pick, which we would use to take Murray is 3000. So the difference going from Rosen to Murray is 2500.

2500 is equivalent to:

• #7 and #16
• #4 and #26
• #10, #40 and 2020 first

This doesn't even take into account the cap hit. All things being equal, I would be fine taking Murray over Rosen, but this price is absolutely insane. We will have Murray and the worst supporting cast in the league around him.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Let's say we can get rosen for a 2nd round pick.
then let's say we trade that pick to Pittsburgh for Mr. Big Chest.

Does the thought of Kyler, David, Larry, and AB even excite you? A bit at least?


fyi..... I don't think this happens, but since we are all dreaming........

 

[Dr. Jones]

The main reason this whole scenario is incredibly foolish to me is because of the draft value that we would be giving up. Lets say we trade Rosen for the 8th pick in the second round. The value of the pick is 500. The value of the #1 overall pick, which we would use to take Murray is 3000. So the difference going from Rosen to Murray is 2500.

2500 is equivalent to:

• #7 and #16
• #4 and #26
• #10, #40 and 2020 first

This doesn't even take into account the cap hit. All things being equal, I would be fine taking Murray over Rosen, but this price is absolutely insane. We will have Murray and the worst supporting cast in the league around him.

Since none of this is an actual spreadsheet and no one actually has points above there head when I watch an NFL game....... What does all of this actually mean?

If we are wiping the slate clean, and going outside of the box....... why would we jump back in that box because of these imaginary points?