Murray to Cards a "done deal"

[TJ]

Problem is you can't have an accurate eval on Rosen yet. Last year was a disaster in more ways then he could show what he has. I mean look at DJ. He literally sucked last year. Wasn't all his problem.

If Rosen had an adequate line, great coaching, great OC, good skill players who were healthy, and a stable locker room and still performed like he did, I’d actively shop him. He had none of the aforementioned.

The environment he was in was not ideal for a developing QB.

 

[Shane]

The GOAT is an immobile QB but nobody sacks Brady because he sees the open guy and gets rid of it. The problem is that Rosen did nothing last year that suggests he's going to be that kind of QB. He's smart enough, and he has the arm, and he obviously had horrible coaching last year, but assuming he might be a guy like Brady who doesn't get sacked much with fairly average OL's is a huge risk.

That's really the concern with Josh and I still think we're going to keep him, he didn't really progress. We were horrible it's VERY easy to say he didn't progress because there was no support system around him.

One thing nobody has really said here, the minute Fitz decided to come back that either IMO indicated he's pretty high on Rosen, or he thought we were going to get another QB and given the timing I don't think HE knew Murray was going to be in the discussion so my guess is he decided to come back knowing KK was the coach and Rosen was the QB. If he thought Rosen was good enough for one more year that has to say something?

Hard to progress when things around you got even worse as the year went along.

Here is an article about the best short QBs (6' and under) to play in the NFL. The list is short (excuse the pun).

https://nationalfootballpost.com/the-nfls-best-short-quarterbacks-of-alltime/


In the last 30 years, NFL teams selected 69 quarterbacks in the first round. Only four were listed at 6-1 or shorter: UCLA’s Cade McNown (6-1, 1999), Virginia Tech’s Michael Vick (6-0, 2001), Florida’s Rex Grossman (6-1, 2003) and Texas A&M’s Johnny Manziel (6-0, 2014).

Shorter quarterbacks don’t often get much love in the middle or later rounds, either. In the last decade, NFL teams selected 118 quarterbacks overall, only 10 of whom were 6-1 or shorter.

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And one more article relating to short QBs.

https://thebiglead.com/2017/03/03/nfl-draft-mitch-trubisky-deshone-kizer-deshaun-watson/

This chart alone tells you to stay the hell away from Murray LOL

 

[MadCardDisease]

Did you ever consider that since QB's under 6 foot are heavily discriminated against they don't get many chances to play, and that is a big part of the reason there is not many with success?

Also how many of those guys were as successful as Murray in college - basically none on your list were.

I'm not buying it. There just are not many short QBs out there. Sure they may not go in the higher rounds. However if they are any good they will be given a shot as a late round pick or UDFA.

If a player is good he will rise to the top during the pre season. Just like Russell Wilson who went in the 3rd round but played so well during the preseason the Seahawks threw caution to the wind an started their rookie QB.

Some team will draft Murray. He will get a chance to show if he is a NFL QB or not.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

This is nonsense...all of it. Sports world going nuts. I was unhappy trading up to get Rosen, but Murray should not be drafted earlier than the second round, IMO...

 

[slanidrac16]

Could the solution be right in front of us? It has been mentioned and at first I thought it was crazy. We’ve mentioned the 8 m cap hit if we trade Rosen . So don’t. This is not a one year plan. As much as we’d like to see this thing rebuilt overnight it’s not going to happen. If we REALLY want Murray then take him. Cut Glennon and we save about 5 mil. If both qbs excel under KK we will have a valuable commodity . Of course we’ll all bitch for the entire year who should be starting if the competition is close. Concentrate on building the offense this free agency and draft. Weaponize the hell out of the offense and worry about defense next year. So we lose 48 to 45 . So what? The only real thing we’d be losing out is Bosa and I already don’t like the fact he mention he’d like to play it’s a hand in the dirt in a 4-3. We can overhaul this offense in a big way and still have a little left over to spend on the defense. Let’s plan to go out and outscore our opponents much like the Chiefs, Saints , Rams and Patriots did for the first 3/4 of the season.

 

[splitsecond]

The GOAT is an immobile QB but nobody sacks Brady because he sees the open guy and gets rid of it. The problem is that Rosen did nothing last year that suggests he's going to be that kind of QB. He's smart enough, and he has the arm, and he obviously had horrible coaching last year, but assuming he might be a guy like Brady who doesn't get sacked much with fairly average OL's is a huge risk.

That's really the concern with Josh and I still think we're going to keep him, he didn't really progress. We were horrible it's VERY easy to say he didn't progress because there was no support system around him.

One thing nobody has really said here, the minute Fitz decided to come back that either IMO indicated he's pretty high on Rosen, or he thought we were going to get another QB and given the timing I don't think HE knew Murray was going to be in the discussion so my guess is he decided to come back knowing KK was the coach and Rosen was the QB. If he thought Rosen was good enough for one more year that has to say something?

I like your thought process on all aspects here. I would add that we had a lot of times where WRs weren't getting separation so he had no where to go, and other times where we got so damn far down that he simply was not even going to look at dink and dunk. There are so many factors involved that to me, taking a chance and starting over with a new QB who's pro ability is TBD is something teams like the Browns do.

 

[splitsecond]

Another factor that has to be considered is this: it may depend what we can do in free agency. If the team goes out and absolutely kills it in free agency and gets the pieces they need at OL, WR and LB then you could see them drafting Murray just to turn the lesser of he or Rosen into multiple assets in a year or two. You know - like the Patriots and Eagles have done repeatedly.

 

[slanidrac16]

Another factor that has to be considered is this: it may depend what we can do in free agency. If the team goes out and absolutely kills it in free agency and gets the pieces they need at OL, WR and LB then you could see them drafting Murray just to turn the lesser of he or Rosen into multiple assets in a year or two. You know - like the Patriots and Eagles have done repeatedly.

This!

 

[Proximo]

Could the solution be right in front of us? It has been mentioned and at first I thought it was crazy. We’ve mentioned the 8 m cap hit if we trade Rosen . So don’t. This is not a one year plan. As much as we’d like to see this thing rebuilt overnight it’s not going to happen. If we REALLY want Murray then take him. Cut Glennon and we save about 5 mil. If both qbs excel under KK we will have a valuable commodity . Of course we’ll all bitch for the entire year who should be starting if the competition is close. Concentrate on building the offense this free agency and draft. Weaponize the hell out of the offense and worry about defense next year. So we lose 48 to 45 . So what? The only real thing we’d be losing out is Bosa and I already don’t like the fact he mention he’d like to play it’s a hand in the dirt in a 4-3. We can overhaul this offense in a big way and still have a little left over to spend on the defense. Let’s plan to go out and outscore our opponents much like the Chiefs, Saints , Rams and Patriots did for the first 3/4 of the season.

This is just not realistic. The reality is Rosen is a bit of a punk. He will not put up with being a backup and be happy about it. I think he will go out of his way to bad mouth the team if that happens.

No, if we are going to make this move, we have to trade Rosen during the draft.

 

[Jetstream Green]

This is just not realistic. The reality is Rosen is a bit of a punk. He will not put up with being a backup and be happy about it. I think he will go out of his way to bad mouth the team if that happens.

No, if we are going to make this move, we have to trade Rosen during the draft.

Could you please show me proof about him being a punk since we have drafted him or that Nessie would hurt anyone while cruising Lochness

 

[Buckeye Cardinal]

A third rounder for Rosen would suck.

Passing on Bosa would be a major mistake.

 

[Shane]

This is just not realistic. The reality is Rosen is a bit of a punk. He will not put up with being a backup and be happy about it. I think he will go out of his way to bad mouth the team if that happens.

No, if we are going to make this move, we have to trade Rosen during the draft.

A bit of a punk? How so

 

[Proximo]

I'm not buying it. There just are not many short QBs out there. Sure they may not go in the higher rounds. However if they are any good they will be given a shot as a late round pick or UDFA.

If a player is good he will rise to the top during the pre season. Just like Russell Wilson who went in the 3rd round but played so well during the preseason the Seahawks threw caution to the wind an started their rookie QB.

Some team will draft Murray. He will get a chance to show if he is a NFL QB or not.

I'm not just talking about kids coming out of college, kids under 6 foot unless they are stellar aren't even recruited to be college qbs. They are encouraged to change position to WR of DB if they are short.

It's just silly to be this hyper focused on height. Either a dude can play or not.

 

[Proximo]

A third rounder for Rosen would suck.

Passing on Bosa would be a major mistake.

It is ridiculous to think all he would fetch is a third rounder. As usual with qb's - just like every draft, they are always more expensive to acquire than initially believed, because there is a severe shortage of them.

I have zero doubt we can get a first rounder of some kind for Rosen if we want to by draft day.

Completely disagree with you on Bosa. In my opinion drafting any DE with the first overall pick is a mistake. QB's almost always go first for a reason, they are by far the most valuable position on the field, and if you don't need a qb, you should trade the pick to someone who does.

 

[bojack]

Let’s plan to go out and outscore our opponents much like the Chiefs, Saints , Rams and Patriots did for the first 3/4 of the season.

Wait, are all you saying is to win games we just need to score more than the opposing team? I wonder how many coaches out there failed not realizing this?

KK might have blown Keims mind by saying "if we can just outscore the other teams we can win" and Keim was like "so 0-3 would win us the game?" And KK was like no "we need to score at least 40 points a game because we won't invest in D and trick them into thinking we don't know the key to winning is outscoring them"

The idea that because KKs team could hang 50 pts playing in a soft conference so he can do that in the NFL is not a rational expectation. Likewise just because Saban can put up big numbers in SEC doesn't mean much because of the talent gap. B12 and Pac12 are the worst analogues to NFL in CFB. NFL has parity on both sides of the ball.

 

[bojack]

Btw, if we're trying to draw a line between KK CFB results and NFL that contradicts that a lot offense is all it takes to win games. He did have a losing record and got fired after all, and he had Mahomes.

 

[ajcardfan]

If they TRULY, TRULY believe Murray is "the guy", they have to do it. The importance of the QB position, (with the exception of the occasional fluke like Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco) is unquestioned in the NFL. No DE can ever match the impact of a great QB.

That said, I am far from sure Murray is "great". But, if the Cardinals management is completely sold on him, they basically have to go for it. Damn the torpedoes.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

So we traded a 1st, 3rd and 5th to trade up to get Rosen?

And the supposed trade value is a 3rd with $8 mil cap hit?

That makes zero sense. Keim should be run out of town if this happens

 

[Zeno]

I don’t know how often ownership gets involved but I really have to believe they’d have to really sell taking Murray to Bidwill. Between eating the dead cap, throwing a guy they were just calling a franchise QB out after a year and buying high and selling low, that’s a tough sell.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Until I start to hear Rosen and his agents talking him up, I have every reason to think he has already been told by the Cardinals that he is their guy and to not believe the hype. To sit quietly while your team floats around the idea of trading you just doesn't happen much in today's sports.

 

[BigRedRage]

You're the biggest homer for this clod Rosen, he's awful. Immature spoiled brat rich kid. I'll give someone else a chance, even Bosa

Lol

People just make up whatever they want don't they

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

 

[Solar7]

Until I start to hear Rosen and his agents talking him up, I have every reason to think he has already been told by the Cardinals that he is their guy and to not believe the hype. To sit quietly while your team floats around the idea of trading you just doesn't happen much in today's sports.

If the Cardinals aren't idiots, they have sat Josh down, said "you're our guy, but we need to do our due diligence on all players available with the first overall pick," or "this is all a smokescreen so we can try to get more picks," and have set this up for him to not be hurt by it.

 

[Arz101]

One more piece in the puzzle, Kliff said offense will be more traditional than people expect. Sounds like Rosen focused no?

 

[az jam]

One more piece in the puzzle, Kliff said offense will be more traditional than people expect. Sounds like Rosen focused no?

Read into what you want, Cards are not giving anything away on what they will do with the pick. Smokes and mirrors time.

 

[Buckeye Cardinal]

So we traded a 1st, 3rd and 5th to trade up to get Rosen?

And the supposed trade value is a 3rd with $8 mil cap hit?

That makes zero sense. Keim should be run out of town if this happens

Some on this board think we can get a first for Rosen.

Talking heads say a third rounder which I agree seems ridiculous for us to bite on.

Bosa is a game changer and I can’t believe we’d be dumb enough to pass on him...although I’ve been fooled before.