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D-Dogg

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* Next game just watch when Kobe sits and watch the score and watch the team play without him. Tell me which unit plays better.
I watch every Laker game and I pay attention to the second unit. I usually tend to see the leads get bigger while Kobe sits and the team plays smarter. Doesn't always happen but I say 7 out of 10 times they usually do better. Just an observation...might want to look at that.

Yeah, just watch and see Kobe get up and cheer for the team as he does all the time.

Oh, and the bench plays well because they are GOOD. Better than the other bench. Sasha scored 9 points in what, 3 minutes in the second? The second unit extends or gets leads because they are GOOD, not because Kobe is sitting. See this last game for example. Kobe KEPT this team in the game shooting only 5 shots or so in the first...then the bench came in and DOMINATED the Jazz bench. That has NO bearing on 24.

Yeah, they do better because they ARE better than the other team's second unit 7 times out of 10. Way to figure that out, Phil Jackson. Super smart breakdown there.
 

cobbler

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How many have an MVP?

Jordan had players moved. Magic asked to be traded or fire the coach. Alan Iverson and all his antics And who has thrown more teamates under the bus than Shaq? All MVP's

Well, what do you think would have happened if the trade Kobe wanted was made? With the addition of Fisher & Gasol, I think he is better suited to shut the hell up and be a player and not a GM. He has a tendency to talk about players and "rat" on them for selfish reasons.
If the Lakers organization would have succumbed to his demands, they would have an old player and locked up with a big salary and you the Lakers fans would be out in the cold cause he would have just left LA for greener pastures as soon as his contract was up. Remember, even Buss called him out in public and only then did he become the quite good teammate.

Well, much to the Mitch's and Buss's credit, they held their ground realizing their superstar was being petty by taking what is disclosed everyday behind closes doors public those two idiotic radio/tv trade me trade me not days. The bynum for kidd thing was not meant for public consumption and recorded secretely. Regardless, he should have known better. Why wouldnt he want to have Kidd over Bynum AT THAT TIME? He had just played the summer with him for USA and Bynum hadnt stepped into his good year. He was jawing with some kids in a parking lot, not giving a press conference. But hes not the GM, hes the best player in the game right now. He got over his tantrum. Squared it away with his teamates. And since day one of training camp has played the best team ball of the career. If people are going to argue that you cant give it to him or others based on previous years accomplishments, then certainly the same logic should apply to past discretions should it not? Again, there is a long list of superstars who have demanded trades, coaching changes etc...

* Next game just watch when Kobe sits and watch the score and watch the team play without him. Tell me which unit plays better.
I watch every Laker game and I pay attention to the second unit. I usually tend to see the leads get bigger while Kobe sits and the team plays smarter. Doesn't always happen but I say 7 out of 10 times they usually do better. Just an observation...might want to look at that.

I doubt you would find a laker fan that wouldnt praise the 2nd unit. The lakers are deep and they very often extend leads while Kobe is on the bench. They are the 2nd unit, they play against the other teams 2nd unit.
So maybe theres a larger talent gap between 2nd units than there is between starters?

I may not be a fan of the Lakers or shall I say Kobe? But I do respect a quality team. Since I live in LA, I have the luxury to watch every game. I have been since the age of twelve.
Please don't call me a hater cause i am not.I love the Laker players they have except for Turiaf (acts like a child) & Kobe. I respect and admire Kobe's game...just not his character.

So many athletes these days are self absorbed jerks. We all lknow that. Kobe is no different. We all know he can be selfish and say childish things. He also had his fued with Shaq, and Shaq being the loveable guy he is, kobe became the villian. Shaq is pulling the same MO with every team and disses everyone yet hes still jolly ole Shaq. The colorado thing only escalated an already dysfunctional situation. If we are going villianize the atheltes for adulterous affairs, thats a long long list. Lot's of the aforementioned MVP's would be right on top. I guess my point is it's all about perception and media influence but what do we really know about what truly goes on behind the scenes? AS OF TODAY, the team all says they are a close unit, they certainly appear to enjoy themselves. Jackson and Kobe are tight for the moment. And I personally wish there where a lot more Turiaf's in the league. It's enjoyable for me to see someone hustle and enjoying doing it.

Bottom line, it is the character of the players that gets to me.

No arguments here. Just as everyone wants a level playing field with the refs in the game, it should also be when passing judgement off it.
 
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Joe L

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Yeah, just watch and see Kobe get up and cheer for the team as he does all the time.

...and watching Kobe cheering from the bench is related how? Sorry, I don't look for players "on the bench" when the game is being played.
Oh, I also forgot to mention...watch the lead also demise when he gets back in.

Oh, and the bench plays well because they are GOOD. Better than the other bench. Sasha scored 9 points in what, 3 minutes in the second? The second unit extends or gets leads because they are GOOD, not because Kobe is sitting. See this last game for example. Kobe KEPT this team in the game shooting only 5 shots or so in the first...then the bench came in and DOMINATED the Jazz bench. That has NO bearing on 24.

That is what I meant. Those Players off the bench have talent and that is due to Kup's talent to find talent. You didn't see it the year before. They looked somewhat lost when they played with Kobe when he stayed in the games.



Yeah, they do better because they ARE better than the other team's second unit 7 times out of 10. Way to figure that out, Phil Jackson. Super smart breakdown there.

I'm sorry, I don't see your notion that the second unit is just "better"...that might sound correct on the surface but unless you know the stats from the other bench, you can't just say that.
The reason for the success IMHO is the cohesiveness of the team and the ability to find the open man and make that extra pass. That is what makes the bench great. Sasha makes his shots with open space and hardly has contested shots. That has been the success of both units. Give a guy an open shot and he will make it 7out of 10 times.
By the way, just saying they are "better" isn't even a breakdown on why they have success. Good underhanded shot at me though...
 

Chris_Sanders

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Heh, Laker love in full force on ASFN.

Discuss Amare Stoudemire, Steve Nash or anything else concerning the Suns or the NBA.

Get over it Captain Xenophobic. It isn't changing and no amount of trollish bitching is going to change it.

I have an idea....why don't you actually discuss basketball for once instead of using this as an excuse to try to piss people off. In the dozen or so posts you have made in this forum lately zero have actually added anything to the conversation. We have even offered to make a "NBA Talk" general forum and the users of this forum voted it down because they actually want to discuss things with people with different perspectives than themselves.
 

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the heat title is legit. the mavs could of beat them and they fell short. I wish stack wouldn't of got suspended on a hard foul to shaq....I standby that it was BS....considering that shaq drew blood from stackhouse earlier in the series on a no call. I cannot stand the NBA and their suspensions in the playoffs it is more inconsistent than watching josh howard playing under the influence. but in all seriousness....even the mavs homer in me isn't going to call an asterick on the heat because wade got to the line on some phantom calls. that title was well deserved...as any title that has ever been won by any other team. If my mavs could win just one I'd take it with an asterick in a heartbeat and I would defend it against any other team.


The only thing legit about that series was. . . . . NOTHING

You tell me how he can get 25 and 22 FT's in two seperate games, plus another 16 in another, when Dirk was getting smashed on every drive to the hoop and can't even sniff the line.

I know it's part of your spiel here on the Suns board to be diplomatic and humble, but we get royally screwed in the Finals and everyone who will open their eyes knows it. Ask McGrady, Phil Jackson, Bill Simmons, or countless other media types and players who stated as much.

The only reason you don't hear about it now is b/c it would get a little old for the media to keep bringing it up.
 

nowagimp

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If the lakers face the hornets in the finals and win, Kobe's MVP will be verified. If the hornets beat the lakers or Kobe has a mediocre series, there will be doubts that he was actually the most valuable player, he will be "dirked". Kobe certainly has a much better supporting cast than CP3, so much so, that when Kobe sits the laker bench often widens the lead. That is something I have never seen with an MVP, the lead opens up when he sits. The ball movement with the laker scrubs is very good, often better than the starters.
 

TheMachine

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If the lakers face the hornets in the finals and win, Kobe's MVP will be verified. If the hornets beat the lakers or Kobe has a mediocre series, there will be doubts that he was actually the most valuable player, he will be "dirked".

By your analogy, Nash didnt deserve the MVP since there were other teams that past the Suns up.
 

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If the lakers face the hornets in the finals and win, Kobe's MVP will be verified. If the hornets beat the lakers or Kobe has a mediocre series, there will be doubts that he was actually the most valuable player, he will be "dirked".

If the Lakers lose in the playoffs it will be in the WCF finals or The Finals (no way L.A. loses to Utah). That's a far cry from losing in the first round the way Dallas did last season.
 

nowagimp

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If the Lakers lose in the playoffs it will be in the WCF finals or The Finals (no way L.A. loses to Utah). That's a far cry from losing in the first round the way Dallas did last season.

Yeah true, but if in a faceoff with CP3 and the hornets lesser supporting players, a lakers series loss will just highlight that CP3 was the real MVP.
 

D-Dogg

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Yeah true, but if in a faceoff with CP3 and the hornets lesser supporting players, a lakers series loss will just highlight that CP3 was the real MVP.

Lesser supporting players?

Stop with the nonsense. West is a STUD. Chandler is a very good player. Peja is a deadly long range shooter. Pargo is a great backup and can score.

The teams are pretty even in talent, IMO.

BTW, the Lakers and Nooch tied in the regular season, with the Lakers winning the last matchup down the stretch, solidifying the top seed in the conference, and CP3 and company dropped like 4 of 6...and that was when the MVP was decided.

Anything that happens in the postseason has NO bearing on the REGULAR SEASON AWARD. It isn't telling; it doesn't "prove" anything and it doesn't highlight anything. Regardless of which guy's team wins such a hypothetical series.
 

TheMachine

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Lesser supporting players?

Stop with the nonsense. West is a STUD. Chandler is a very good player. Peja is a deadly long range shooter. Pargo is a great backup and can score.

The teams are pretty even in talent, IMO.

BTW, the Lakers and Nooch tied in the regular season, with the Lakers winning the last matchup down the stretch, solidifying the top seed in the conference, and CP3 and company dropped like 4 of 6...and that was when the MVP was decided.

Anything that happens in the postseason has NO bearing on the REGULAR SEASON AWARD. It isn't telling; it doesn't "prove" anything and it doesn't highlight anything. Regardless of which guy's team wins such a hypothetical series.

Dont forget that fact that NO was practically healthy all season with the same starting 5.
 

D-Dogg

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Dont forget that fact that NO was practically healthy all season with the same starting 5.

:yeahthat:

No doubt. And one of the wins the Nooch had over the Lakers was without Bynum or Pau, in New Orleans. By 9 or so in a game the Lakers had a chance at stealing.
 

Joe L

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Dont forget that fact that NO was practically healthy all season with the same starting 5.
HORNETS
Tyson Chandler: missed 3 games
Chris Paul: missed 2 games
Peja Stojakovic: missed 5 games
David West:missed 6 games
Morris Peterson: missed 6 games

LAKERS
Kobe: played all season
Fisher: played all season
Radmanovic: missed 17 games
Odom: missed 5 games
*Bynum:missed 47 games
*Gasol: played 27 games but not sure how many games missed due to injury

I will say that the Lakers had had more changes in the line ups but there heart and soul (Kobe & Fisher) were there all year. Odom missed 5 games while Radman missed 17 games which i think should be on the bench instead of Luke Walton.
*Turiaf: missed 4 games , started 21
*Kwame Brown: started 14 games & played in 27 games

All of the starting 5 Hornets players have missed an average of 4 games. Not sure how you look at it but I thought it would paint a better picture of the injuries on both teams. Its hard to consider Kwame was a starter at one time.
 

D-Dogg

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HORNETS
Tyson Chandler: missed 3 games
Chris Paul: missed 2 games
Peja Stojakovic: missed 5 games
David West:missed 6 games
Morris Peterson: missed 6 games

LAKERS
Kobe: played all season
Fisher: played all season
Radmanovic: missed 17 games
Odom: missed 5 games
*Bynum:missed 47 games
*Gasol: played 27 games but not sure how many games missed due to injury

I will say that the Lakers had had more changes in the line ups but there heart and soul (Kobe & Fisher) were there all year. Odom missed 5 games while Radman missed 17 games which i think should be on the bench instead of Luke Walton.
*Turiaf: missed 4 games , started 21
*Kwame Brown: started 14 games & played in 27 games

All of the starting 5 Hornets players have missed an average of 4 games. Not sure how you look at it but I thought it would paint a better picture of the injuries on both teams. Its hard to consider Kwame was a starter at one time.


Trevor Ariza is missing from your list. We traded two rotation guys for him, and he was already a 6th/7th man for the team and a defensive specialist, sending Luke further on down the bench. Then he missed most of the post-all-star season.

Pau missed 9 games.

Kwame was a player on the team, getting lots of minutes, and he missed 18 games as well (until we traded him.)

The Lakers health and lineup was shuffled all over the place.


Oh, and Kobe also ruined his pinky and will be having offseason surgery on it...something that most other players in the league would have sat out with but Kobe is just insane and doesn't like to miss games.
 

Joe L

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Trevor Ariza is missing from your list. We traded two rotation guys for him, and he was already a 6th/7th man for the team and a defensive specialist, sending Luke further on down the bench. Then he missed most of the post-all-star season.

Pau missed 9 games.

Kwame was a player on the team, getting lots of minutes, and he missed 18 games as well (until we traded him.)

The Lakers health and lineup was shuffled all over the place.


Oh, and Kobe also ruined his pinky and will be having offseason surgery on it...something that most other players in the league would have sat out with but Kobe is just insane and doesn't like to miss games.

I was only talking about starters. Since PJ was using Kwame & bynum at different times, the shuffling doesn't count. Ariza wasn't a starter. Kobe's injury wasn't too severe that he couldn't play and I know of AI who has played most of his career with injuries. Kobe's pinky isn't severe and it isn't insane for him to play with it. It is minor surgery. Not all the shuffling was due
to injury but for strategic reasons...those different line-ups don't count. Only the line-ups due to injury. The only shuffling that I am aware of was the center position.
 

D-Dogg

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I was only talking about starters. Since PJ was using Kwame & bynum at different times, the shuffling doesn't count. Ariza wasn't a starter. Kobe's injury wasn't too severe that he couldn't play and I know of AI who has played most of his career with injuries. Kobe's pinky isn't severe and it isn't insane for him to play with it. It is minor surgery. Not all the shuffling was due
to injury but for strategic reasons...those different line-ups don't count. Only the line-ups due to injury. The only shuffling that I am aware of was the center position.

Kwame started the year at center.
 

nowagimp

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Lesser supporting players?

Stop with the nonsense. West is a STUD. Chandler is a very good player. Peja is a deadly long range shooter. Pargo is a great backup and can score.

The teams are pretty even in talent, IMO.

BTW, the Lakers and Nooch tied in the regular season, with the Lakers winning the last matchup down the stretch, solidifying the top seed in the conference, and CP3 and company dropped like 4 of 6...and that was when the MVP was decided.

Anything that happens in the postseason has NO bearing on the REGULAR SEASON AWARD. It isn't telling; it doesn't "prove" anything and it doesn't highlight anything. Regardless of which guy's team wins such a hypothetical series.

The hornets depth was the big criticism this year by NBA scouts, I guess you dont share their interpretations. To compare the supporting players as equals is just silly, but go ahead.
 

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kobe would def be the mvp and the lakers would def have passed first round if they hadn't picked up gasol..

paul wouldn't have been mvp and the hornets wouldn't have been first place had they picked up.. NOBODY..

paul is sick and deserves it way more than the quitter..
 

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