My issue with DA

[desertdawg]

Hall will bring energy...an ability to think on his feet...a nifty escapability...and far better accuracy. He will make mistakes...all QBs do, especially rookies. But...this is a voracious student of the game who will commit himself to learning from those mistakes. This kid is a winner, and is, IMO, the golden lining to Warner's retirement and all the other angst-causing QB scenarios since.

THIS!

I think Hall can benefit from every snap he gets. He takes over the starting spot every where he goes.

He went on a two year mission which does wonders for maturity. He plays with a tempo and passion I dont see in DA. Hes 24, I don't think hes the quick solution.

Hall already earned a 2 spot on a NFL team, translation, better be ready. Another translation, the coaches think he can.

DA is horrible, why play him. There is no getting better with DA. Just my opinion though, I don't get paid to make them.

 

[azsouthendzone]

I'm not sure that we should take Whiz's estimation of any of the talent on the offensive side of the ball as gold word. I don't care how he estimates the talent level of the quarterbacks. He said that #7 was his guy for four months and then fell out of love with him three weeks into training camp. The guy he apparently fell for is garbage, and anyone who's watched a Cleveland Browns game for the past three and a half years knows that. Whis tried to feed us a line that "We only know about Derek Anderson what we've seen with him on our team." Well, good. The rest of the NFL has seen him his whole career, and they weren't impressed.

I'm glad that Ken Whisenhut won two division titles with Denny Green's team, but now that he's building his own squad, those players who he selected that are still on the roster aren't looking very sharp.

I agree with this 100% and I would still start Hall.

 

[MrYeahBut]

I think Hall can benefit from every snap he gets.

I'm not so sure he benefited from his first snap, he threw a pic on his second one.

 

[Russ Smith]

It's nice that he said that, but the people who went to camp that I know weren't echoing that. My dad was there and came away saying that Max Hall was way too small and had a noodle arm. Arm strength might be overrated in the Kyle Boller sense, but there's still a threshold in the NFL.

I'm not sure that we should take Whiz's estimation of any of the talent on the offensive side of the ball as gold word. I don't care how he estimates the talent level of the quarterbacks. He said that #7 was his guy for four months and then fell out of love with him three weeks into training camp. The guy he apparently fell for is garbage, and anyone who's watched a Cleveland Browns game for the past three and a half years knows that. Whis tried to feed us a line that "We only know about Derek Anderson what we've seen with him on our team." Well, good. The rest of the NFL has seen him his whole career, and they weren't impressed.

I'm glad that Ken Whisenhut won two division titles with Denny Green's team, but now that he's building his own squad, those players who he selected that are still on the roster aren't looking very sharp.

What do you expect coach to say when it's clear that #7 isn't going to be on the roster? "Well, Pete, we're in a world of hurt. We don't have a quarterback right now. All we have is this mormon kid who all the locals are infatuated with?" Peter King is a carnival barker.

But again you're assuming that DA is the starter because Whiz thinks he can be his starter. Maybe DA is starting because Whiz felt he was the best answer now. Maybe Whiz realized the team just doesn't believe in Matt? But ultimately the guy on the roster with the best chance to be good is Max Hall?

Here's a quote from Whiz on Hall notice what he says about him.

"I think that Max has been pretty impressive all the way through the OTAs and into camp -- there have been a number of different tests that he had to pass," Whisenhunt said last week. "He hasn't passed every one with flying colors. He is not the second coming at that position, but he has done a lot of good things. He has performed well in a game. He has performed well in practice. He has come back after he has made a bad throw and responded to that. There have been a number of things that you try to judge the quarterback position other than his completion percentage or things like that, and I have seen Max handle those things very well. That is definitely part of the progression of why you feel comfortable with him."

For Whisenhunt, Hall's resilience and personality factored in more than the measurables. "He is definitely not afraid to make a mistake or call a play or get in somebody's face. There is a little bit of that. He obviously doesn't like Utah very much either, based on what I have heard. He is not shy about expressing his emotions and some of the best competitors I have ever been around are like that. If you can back it up with consistency of play and how you handle yourself around your teammates, that's a good thing. So that definitely is a mark in his favor."

I don't think it's a coincidence he's talking up the very things about Hall that were criticized about Matt.

 

[slanidrac16]

I more of the latter, but that's not exactly accurate either. They (we) want Hall to start because we know what we have in Anderson. He's not going to start changing his stripes six years into his NFL career, so it's difficult to be told we have to take our lumps with him. There's no light at the end of the tunnel.

Starting Hall will cost us games (but significantly more than would starting DA? I dunno), but at least there's an upside: either he progresses as the season goes on and we have something for the future, or he proves the league right in not being drafted. Either way, we're better off knowing sooner rather than later because Anderson isn't even a band-aid; he's salt in a wound.

If I thought that the team had a shot do do anything with DA--maybe the defense and run game could let him play more of a manager role, or his big plays were outweighing his inaccuracy--I'd say stick with him. But the offense is based on the pass and the defense is not showing they can stop teams enough to be relied upon.

JMHO

BEST POST OF THIS THREAD!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Anyone who bemoans a rookie first-round quarterback next summer because "we don't know what we have in Max Hall" is insane.

this will be the biggest nightmare of all time if this scenario plays out... AGAIN. Look... I LOVE Fitz, but I STILL think passing on Big Ben and Phillip Rivers simply because we had to see what Josh Freaking McNown screwed this franchise out of a decade of prosperity.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. We're debating who should be starting QB for the Cardinals, Derek Anderson or Max Hall .

laugh to keep from crying.

 

[kerouac9]

But again you're assuming that DA is the starter because Whiz thinks he can be his starter. Maybe DA is starting because Whiz felt he was the best answer now. Maybe Whiz realized the team just doesn't believe in Matt? But ultimately the guy on the roster with the best chance to be good is Max Hall?

Here's a quote from Whiz on Hall notice what he says about him.

"I think that Max has been pretty impressive all the way through the OTAs and into camp -- there have been a number of different tests that he had to pass," Whisenhunt said last week. "He hasn't passed every one with flying colors. He is not the second coming at that position, but he has done a lot of good things. He has performed well in a game. He has performed well in practice. He has come back after he has made a bad throw and responded to that. There have been a number of things that you try to judge the quarterback position other than his completion percentage or things like that, and I have seen Max handle those things very well. That is definitely part of the progression of why you feel comfortable with him."

For Whisenhunt, Hall's resilience and personality factored in more than the measurables. "He is definitely not afraid to make a mistake or call a play or get in somebody's face. There is a little bit of that. He obviously doesn't like Utah very much either, based on what I have heard. He is not shy about expressing his emotions and some of the best competitors I have ever been around are like that. If you can back it up with consistency of play and how you handle yourself around your teammates, that's a good thing. So that definitely is a mark in his favor."

I don't think it's a coincidence he's talking up the very things about Hall that were criticized about Matt.

Fantastic. The guy who selected Alan Branch with the 33rd overall pick in the draft, identified Levi Brown as a Top 10 pick, identified Cody Brown as a 2nd round pick, identified Rashard Johnson as a 3rd round pick, identified Buster Davis as a 3rd round pick, and elevated Brandon Keith into a starting job after 2 live-action career snaps likes Max Hall.

I'm not sure how anyone can take seriously anything that Ken Whisenhunt says after the #7 debacle. Believe the actions, and the actions were that Whisenhunt continues to start Derek Anderson.

Ken Whisenhunt likes a guy he brought in better than the QB he inherited? Man, that's difficult to believe.

Look, love Max Hall. That's your preogative. But understand that there wasn't another team in the NFL with a legitimate opening at quarterback who wanted to take a look at the guy. If there had been a place where he would have had a likelier chance to hook onto a roster, he would have gone there. I'm sure you can see similar quotes from Whis about Brian St. Pierre.

He was also talking about a #2 quarterback, not a starter.

 

[Chopper0080]

I can't see the Cardinals starting Max Hall before the bye week. We play Oak @ home, San Diego on the road, and then home at New Orleans. If I am the Cardinals I am pretty sure that I can beat Oakland in our home opener with DA. Going to San Diego will result in matching up with a high powered attack that should force us to throw the ball. I want DA taking these hits. Finally, New Orleans would be a nightmare for Hall. Greg Williams defense and high powered offense aren't goo matchups.

You have to take your licks before the bye week with DA, hoping to go 2-3. After that we have a home heavy schedule with 7 games vs the NFC West and 2 games vs. the AFC West (Den & KC). This part of the schedule is doable with a QB like Hall.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Fantastic. The guy who selected Alan Branch with the 33rd overall pick in the draft, identified Levi Brown as a Top 10 pick, identified Cody Brown as a 2nd round pick, identified Rashard Johnson as a 3rd round pick, identified Buster Davis as a 3rd round pick, and elevated Brandon Keith into a starting job after 2 live-action career snaps likes Max Hall.

I'm not sure how anyone can take seriously anything that Ken Whisenhunt says after the #7 debacle. Believe the actions, and the actions were that Whisenhunt continues to start Derek Anderson.

Ken Whisenhunt likes a guy he brought in better than the QB he inherited? Man, that's difficult to believe.

Look, love Max Hall. That's your preogative. But understand that there wasn't another team in the NFL with a legitimate opening at quarterback who wanted to take a look at the guy. If there had been a place where he would have had a likelier chance to hook onto a roster, he would have gone there. I'm sure you can see similar quotes from Whis about Brian St. Pierre.

He was also talking about a #2 quarterback, not a starter.

Hard to argue with that, but DA is worse than an undrafted rookie FA.

 

[CtCardinals78]

Look, love Max Hall. That's your preogative. But understand that there wasn't another team in the NFL with a legitimate opening at quarterback who wanted to take a look at the guy. If there had been a place where he would have had a likelier chance to hook onto a roster, he would have gone there. I'm sure you can see similar quotes from Whis about Brian St. Pierre.

He was also talking about a #2 quarterback, not a starter.

I agree with what you say except for that I believe Wiz wanted to dump Leinart earlier but pressure form the FO kept him from doing so. Doesn't make it right, especially when players like McNabb could have been had in the offseason.

I also see your point on Max Hall and that too has me worried, but also understand that there wasn't another team in the NFL with a legitimate opening at quarterback who wanted to take a look at Matt Leinart, including his college coach. I think Wiz made the right decision regarding Leinart, but made the wrong decision with his replacement.

Either way the drafting needs to get better and this team must be more proactive in free agency and get some impact players instead of old players past their prime. Striking gold with Warner was the exception, not the rule and it will not happen again anytime soon.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I am scared of going multiple years without a QBOF so I say start Max Hall now.

Either Wiz knows what he sees in the kid and we win 8+ games with Max as the guy OR he sucks and we get Andrew Luck, who happens to be Peyton Manning with legs. I am not in the bandwagon of winning 8 freaking games with Derek Anderson and backing into a Division tirle maybe hopefully kinda sorta if everything breaks jusssst right. Screw that.

Either make it happen with Max or implode and start the Andrew Luck era. I'll bite the bullet this year, if it assures us our pick of what looks to be the best QB class in year.

I am NOT trying to go 8-8 and 7-9 every year. I have complete confidence in the coaching staff and personnel guys and think a good young QB is the only difference between 4 wins and constant contenders year after year.

If it takes one bad year, I'll take the lumps and deal with it.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

But again you're assuming that DA is the starter because Whiz thinks he can be his starter. Maybe DA is starting because Whiz felt he was the best answer now. Maybe Whiz realized the team just doesn't believe in Matt? But ultimately the guy on the roster with the best chance to be good is Max Hall?

Here's a quote from Whiz on Hall notice what he says about him.

"I think that Max has been pretty impressive all the way through the OTAs and into camp -- there have been a number of different tests that he had to pass," Whisenhunt said last week. "He hasn't passed every one with flying colors. He is not the second coming at that position, but he has done a lot of good things. He has performed well in a game. He has performed well in practice. He has come back after he has made a bad throw and responded to that. There have been a number of things that you try to judge the quarterback position other than his completion percentage or things like that, and I have seen Max handle those things very well. That is definitely part of the progression of why you feel comfortable with him."

For Whisenhunt, Hall's resilience and personality factored in more than the measurables. "He is definitely not afraid to make a mistake or call a play or get in somebody's face. There is a little bit of that. He obviously doesn't like Utah very much either, based on what I have heard. He is not shy about expressing his emotions and some of the best competitors I have ever been around are like that. If you can back it up with consistency of play and how you handle yourself around your teammates, that's a good thing. So that definitely is a mark in his favor."

I don't think it's a coincidence he's talking up the very things about Hall that were criticized about Matt.

You just make too much sense and are actually being logical with your context of thought.

No matter what K9 or anyone says THIS is what I think happened.

But without the smoking gun Russ, its just too fantasy land for some of these guys. Nevermind its the most likely and logical explanation for what happened this offseason.

 

[Duckjake]

Might as well start Hall. At least it would be entertaining watching him run for his life instead of watching DA just stand still and get killed.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Look, love Max Hall. That's your preogative. But understand that there wasn't another team in the NFL with a legitimate opening at quarterback who wanted to take a look at the guy. If there had been a place where he would have had a likelier chance to hook onto a roster, he would have gone there. I'm sure you can see similar quotes from Whis about Brian St. Pierre.

.

You cant have it both ways. Leinart was a former first round pick and the Cardinals tried to field any offers to trade him. They then cut him and he had about no interest from any team. He is now not even on the active roster and is the 3rd string QB for Houston. (on a league min. salary)

But we are to believe cutting Leinart was a mistake made by Whiz even though no NFL team showed any interst in him?

Which is it?

For the record I do not believ in Max Hall at all, but I am questioning your reasoning.

 

[CtCardinals78]

You just make too much sense and are actually being logical with your context of thought.

No matter what K9 or anyone says THIS is what I think happened.

But without the smoking gun Russ, its just too fantasy land for some of these guys. Nevermind its the most likely and logical explanation for what happened this offseason.

I agree with Russ also that was a great write up and I do like Max Hall. I can also understand the line of thinking about not having a lot of faith in Wiz when it comes to personnel decisions. 32 teams passed on Hall for 7 rounds. I wouldn't be as skeptical about him if it weren't for Levi Brown, Buster Davis, Alan Branch, Bryant McFadden, Cody Brown as well as the overall sloppy play from this team Wiz promised to clean up when he got to AZ in 2007.

I like Wiz, a lot but I am no longer going to blindly follow (not saying people are but I was) what he says about players because frankly this coaching staff has swung and missed a lot since 2007 regarding personnel.

 

[desertdawg]

Might as well start Hall. At least it would be entertaining watching him run for his life instead of watching DA just stand still and get killed.

I the title of this thread, I think we all have issues.

 

[dogpoo32]

I more of the latter, but that's not exactly accurate either. They (we) want Hall to start because we know what we have in Anderson. He's not going to start changing his stripes six years into his NFL career, so it's difficult to be told we have to take our lumps with him. There's no light at the end of the tunnel.

Starting Hall will cost us games (but significantly more than would starting DA? I dunno), but at least there's an upside: either he progresses as the season goes on and we have something for the future, or he proves the league right in not being drafted. Either way, we're better off knowing sooner rather than later because Anderson isn't even a band-aid; he's salt in a wound.

If I thought that the team had a shot do do anything with DA--maybe the defense and run game could let him play more of a manager role, or his big plays were outweighing his inaccuracy--I'd say stick with him. But the offense is based on the pass and the defense is not showing they can stop teams enough to be relied upon.

JMHO

Post of the year.

 

[Duckjake]

I the title of this thread, I think we all have issues.

Now playing at University of Phoenix Theater: Escape from Glendale!

Watch the daring exploits of Special Agent Max Hall as he runs for his life while trying to save the Cardinals before the timer runs out.

 

[kerouac9]

I agree with what you say except for that I believe Wiz wanted to dump Leinart earlier but pressure form the FO kept him from doing so. Doesn't make it right, especially when players like McNabb could have been had in the offseason.

I also see your point on Max Hall and that too has me worried, but also understand that there wasn't another team in the NFL with a legitimate opening at quarterback who wanted to take a look at Matt Leinart, including his college coach. I think Wiz made the right decision regarding Leinart, but made the wrong decision with his replacement.

Either way the drafting needs to get better and this team must be more proactive in free agency and get some impact players instead of old players past their prime. Striking gold with Warner was the exception, not the rule and it will not happen again anytime soon.

You cant have it both ways. Leinart was a former first round pick and the Cardinals tried to field any offers to trade him. They then cut him and he had about no interest from any team. He is now not even on the active roster and is the 3rd string QB for Houston. (on a league min. salary)

But we are to believe cutting Leinart was a mistake made by Whiz even though no NFL team showed any interst in him?

Which is it?

For the record I do not believ in Max Hall at all, but I am questioning your reasoning.

It's apples and oranges. Max Hall got a $2500 signing bonus to sign with the Cards as an unrestricted free agent in the days following the draft. Any team with a competitive opening for a #3 quarterback and $3000 could have had him and worked him out. No one was intereted.

#7 was cut at the end of training camp. If a team wanted to trade for him or pick him up off waivers, it would have cost them $4 million for the privilege. At the same time, by bringing in a high-profile QB on the eve of the season, you're inviting a quarterback controversy in any city where #7 may have had an opportunity to start (Buffalo, maybe Carolina, maybe Jacksonville), and you have to basically start with scratch from him because Ken Whisenhunt doesn't exactly have a huge coaching tree behind him. Neither you nor I have any idea of #7 had competitive offers from other teams, or would have after week 1 when is salary wouldn't have been guaranteed. #7 went into a quarterback friendly system with a starter who's proven to be an injury risk and a backup quarterback who has a habit of walking out of the back of the end zone. I'm not really concerned that he hasn't absorbed the playbook in 2 and a half weeks over a guy who's been in the system for two and a half years, no.

So no one wanted Max Hall for free. No one wanted #7 at the cost of a quarterback controversy and/or $4 million. Does that clarify things for you?

 

[kerouac9]

I am scared of going multiple years without a QBOF so I say start Max Hall now.

Either Wiz knows what he sees in the kid and we win 8+ games with Max as the guy OR he sucks and we get Andrew Luck, who happens to be Peyton Manning with legs. I am not in the bandwagon of winning 8 freaking games with Derek Anderson and backing into a Division tirle maybe hopefully kinda sorta if everything breaks jusssst right. Screw that.

Either make it happen with Max or implode and start the Andrew Luck era. I'll bite the bullet this year, if it assures us our pick of what looks to be the best QB class in year.

I am NOT trying to go 8-8 and 7-9 every year. I have complete confidence in the coaching staff and personnel guys and think a good young QB is the only difference between 4 wins and constant contenders year after year.

If it takes one bad year, I'll take the lumps and deal with it.

Why do you assume that we'll get Andrew Luck? Do you think that if Max Hall fails we're still worse than Buffalo? Really? We might as well get that OT from Wisconsin with the #2 overall pick and have him end up succeeding as a right guard.

 

[desertdawg]

Lol K9, did you at some point vow never to type #7s name again? If you have, I respect that.

 

[conraddobler]

You cant have it both ways. Leinart was a former first round pick and the Cardinals tried to field any offers to trade him. They then cut him and he had about no interest from any team. He is now not even on the active roster and is the 3rd string QB for Houston. (on a league min. salary)

But we are to believe cutting Leinart was a mistake made by Whiz even though no NFL team showed any interst in him?

Which is it?

For the record I do not believ in Max Hall at all, but I am questioning your reasoning.

Matt's career here wasn't the best, someone did pick him up as a backup which is all any QB is worth that time of year, you wouldn't know who really wants him until next year, all the rosters are essentially set, he dosen't know the playbook and someone who dosen't know the playbook is essentially useless this year. Top all that off with swirling rumors for years he's a bust and no one is going to treat him like he's worth anything, nor really should they but....

People just grasp anything they hear in the media and run with it, he was pronounced a failure by a guy who thought he caught lightning in DA, the credibility meter is starting to swing back in Matt's direction.

Facts are facts, Whiz's cred on this is going up in smoke fast, it's nearly gone now.

By the end of the year if this goes like I think it will it may never come back and then people will take a fresh look at Matt and he'll either make it or not but really I don't care, I care about this team and it just went through the dumbest offseason in history as far as I'm concerned and a coach I thought a ton of is looking like someone has some photos he don't want out, heck I don't know what's going on but it looks very very bad.

 

[Russ Smith]

Fantastic. The guy who selected Alan Branch with the 33rd overall pick in the draft, identified Levi Brown as a Top 10 pick, identified Cody Brown as a 2nd round pick, identified Rashard Johnson as a 3rd round pick, identified Buster Davis as a 3rd round pick, and elevated Brandon Keith into a starting job after 2 live-action career snaps likes Max Hall.

I'm not sure how anyone can take seriously anything that Ken Whisenhunt says after the #7 debacle. Believe the actions, and the actions were that Whisenhunt continues to start Derek Anderson.

Ken Whisenhunt likes a guy he brought in better than the QB he inherited? Man, that's difficult to believe.

Look, love Max Hall. That's your preogative. But understand that there wasn't another team in the NFL with a legitimate opening at quarterback who wanted to take a look at the guy. If there had been a place where he would have had a likelier chance to hook onto a roster, he would have gone there. I'm sure you can see similar quotes from Whis about Brian St. Pierre.

He was also talking about a #2 quarterback, not a starter.

Whiz seems to have an idea about QB's, none of those other guys you mention are QB's. Whiz may have caught a hot hand with Warner but he was also smart enough to realize what he had and go with it. Many here including me thought that was nuts, but Whiz saw practice everyday and realized whatever Warner had lost, he'd found again.

If he looked at his 4 QB's in camp and said Hall is playing better than any of them I believe that was true. Skelton was the only one of the 4 that had an excuse for that, he's also a rookie and extremely raw. If Matt and DA weren't better than Hall in camp, that says a lot.

I seriously doubt I or you or anybody else will find a quote where Whiz tells someone that BSP was his best QB in camp, or even his 2nd best QB in camp.

Yes I realize the whole league passed on Max Hall. They also all passed on Warner when he got released. This is the same league where Aaron Rodgers was picked in the mid 20's and Alex Smith went #1 overall, where Jamarcus Russell was picked #1 overall and on and on.

I'm not saying Max Hall is the next Montana, I'm saying he was our most effective QB in the preseason, the coach said he was the best QB in camp, and the coach is "acting" like he believes in Hall by cutting Leinart and giving Max the #2 job. Very few NFL coaches would do that if they didn't believe they had something in the kid, especially with DA as the starter.

 

[Russ Smith]

I am scared of going multiple years without a QBOF so I say start Max Hall now.

Either Wiz knows what he sees in the kid and we win 8+ games with Max as the guy OR he sucks and we get Andrew Luck, who happens to be Peyton Manning with legs. I

I love andrew Luck but a friend works at Stanford and says that it's common knowledge there Luck isn't coming out this year as a redshirt soph, he wants to play one more year.