My thoughts on Cards Offense

[Snakester]

Let me start first by saying I was very impressed with our offense. This game was lost because of mistakes, coaching and special teams. We should have won this game!
First, let's start with Blake. He looked very good in the first half and pretty good in the second half. He did make some really bonehead mistakes though. I counted him fumbling three times and he should have had three INTs. I will give him the benefit of just have first game jitters and hopefully he does not make so many mistakes the rest of the year. Blake did look very good passing most of the time and I like our offenses chances this year for scoring alot of points. I give him a B for the game. It would have been an A if not for his multiple scewups.
WRs- First Boldin. He is the man. We have the best slot receiver that we have ever had in my opinion. Great game. Yea he made a couple of mistakes but for a rookie to play this well, i'll take it.
Bryant Johnson- Looks like a rookie. You can see the talent is there but he needs some work.
Brian Gilmore- Looked OK but he is in same boat as Johnson.
Kevin Kasper- Should have been used more. Caught everything that was catchable. He did good on returns to.
Freddie Jones- With Blake throwing to him, he should make the pro-bowl.
Foster- No better than a fourth receiver. Cut him next year and draft another guy like Boldin, say,Roy Williams.
RBs- I have to admit, Emmitt still has it. I am eating crow here and liking it. I am glad we got him. Both he and Marcell Shipp did good. We have two solid runners. I do wish that Blake would have thrown to Emmitt more as far as dump off passes.
Hodgins looked good to. Both blocking and catching the ball out of the backfield.
O-line- Shelton Looked great for three quarters. In the fourth he did let his man get by him a few times. I don't know if he was just tired or what but he played very well as a whole. I think he should have a nice new five year contract on the table this week to sign. I give him a B+ for the game.
Cameron Spikes- Most impressive. He was the Card's best lineman in this game. Solid in every aspect of his game. ( Strength, run blocking, pass blocking and overall athletic ability. ) I think we have our left guard for at least the next five years. Grade- A
Pete Kendall- Looked like a veteran center out there and one of the best in the league already. Grade A
BIG- Looked just ok for the one series before he went out. I think having his hand in a cast and also not playing much in the pre-season really hurt him. I think he will be fine though.
Anthony Clement looked like he always does.Good but not great. He does everything well but not great at any one area, still he is a good RT and i'm glad the Cards have him.
Chris Dishman- I used to like him and he used to be a pretty solid player BUT... He should be cut bait after this year. He was really bad. He has lost what he had and it all went to his stomach.
I am really getting excited about our offense. I think this year will be an exciting one to say the least. We may lose but I think we will score a lot this year.

 

[jf-08]

ugh.............. feel free to use the enter button between paragraphs.....words........ugh

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Hey Buddy

Hope ya didn't hit that Beam too hard Sunday....I was on the wagon.....but that's another story.

Pretty much agree with all you've said.

The thing that bothers me the most about this team so far is their run blocking on the OL. I know Detroit was big....but we'll be facing teams just as big as them. In listening to the O-line coach before the game he hinted that this would be a problem and that he was doin his best to teach thme to fire out and hit someone....Spikes/Kendall/Davis are all three big enough and supposedly aggressive enough to get it done. Run blocking is like rebounding in basketball.......or as Mac has said....lean on em...lean on em....then kick their arse.

Maybe Shelton and Clement just can't run block....they're kinda tall.....but anyone that weighs over 330 should be able to get a little push.

You're right about Dish.....cut his sorry arse and give Wells or Wragge or someone else a chance.

Later dude.

 

[kerouac9]

Re: Hey Buddy

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
Hope ya didn't hit that Beam too hard Sunday....I was on the wagon.....but that's another story.

Pretty much agree with all you've said.

The thing that bothers me the most about this team so far is their run blocking on the OL. I know Detroit was big....but we'll be facing teams just as big as them. In listening to the O-line coach before the game he hinted that this would be a problem and that he was doin his best to teach thme to fire out and hit someone....Spikes/Kendall/Davis are all three big enough and supposedly aggressive enough to get it done. Run blocking is like rebounding in basketball.......or as Mac has said....lean on em...lean on em....then kick their arse.

Maybe Shelton and Clement just can't run block....they're kinda tall.....but anyone that weighs over 330 should be able to get a little push.

You're right about Dish.....cut his sorry arse and give Wells or Wragge or someone else a chance.

Later dude.

S-O-F-T SOFT. That's what this line is. Madden was talking about what made Sapp a good blocker last night, and he said it was Warren's ability to get low. I don't see a lot of this Big Glass Line getting down to get push. Maybe that's what the problem is with the run-blocking.

 

[Skkorpion]

Emmitt Smith averaged 4.5 ypc and Marcel Shipp 4.75 ypc against Detroit.

'Frankly, other than first series jitters, and bad play from Dishman, I thought the oline played very well.

 

[Snakester]

Re: Hey Buddy

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
Hope ya didn't hit that Beam too hard Sunday....I was on the wagon.....but that's another story.

Pretty much agree with all you've said.

The thing that bothers me the most about this team so far is their run blocking on the OL. I know Detroit was big....but we'll be facing teams just as big as them. In listening to the O-line coach before the game he hinted that this would be a problem and that he was doin his best to teach thme to fire out and hit someone....Spikes/Kendall/Davis are all three big enough and supposedly aggressive enough to get it done. Run blocking is like rebounding in basketball.......or as Mac has said....lean on em...lean on em....then kick their arse.

Maybe Shelton and Clement just can't run block....they're kinda tall.....but anyone that weighs over 330 should be able to get a little push.

You're right about Dish.....cut his sorry arse and give Wells or Wragge or someone else a chance.

Later dude.

Hey Buckeye how's it going. You guessed it. I had six Jim Beam's after the game in about two hours. I really thought we would win that game. As far as our run blocking I think we did fine. Our offensive linemen did very well except for Dishman. The problem was we kept running on first down and they kept stacking the line eight and nine deep just waiting for it. They rushed at least five almost every time and brought six a lot of times. They were just out to make us beat them in the air. That's the way they played us.
Shelton did a very good job at both pass and run blocking. I think once BIG get's back in there and teams have to worry about our passing game the running game will open up even more.
Talk to ya later.

 

[Snakester]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Emmitt Smith averaged 4.5 ypc and Marcel Shipp 4.75 ypc against Detroit.

'Frankly, other than first series jitters, and bad play from Dishman, I thought the oline played very well.

I completely agree Skkorp. the line I thought did a good job. And both Emmitt and Shipp had a good game.

 

[Snakester]

Re: Re: Hey Buddy

Originally posted by kerouac9
S-O-F-T SOFT. That's what this line is. Madden was talking about what made Sapp a good blocker last night, and he said it was Warren's ability to get low. I don't see a lot of this Big Glass Line getting down to get push. Maybe that's what the problem is with the run-blocking.

I think if you re-watch the game and keep a good eye on the o-line you will see that they did really well. And that was without Big for almost the whole game. Yea Dishman looked bad but the rest of the guys I thought played well.

 

[jon_nyaz]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Emmitt Smith averaged 4.5 ypc and Marcel Shipp 4.75 ypc against Detroit.

'Frankly, other than first series jitters, and bad play from Dishman, I thought the oline played very well.

Skkorp,

I always respect your opinion, but I have to ask ya, "what game were you watching man?". The o-line did not perform well at all. The holes were not there for the running game save for maybe two or three carries. Now if you go back and watch the film, it's clear that the Lions were stacking the box, running stunts and blitzing the safety quite a bit. Can we expect to open holes for the running game in that scenario? The best o-lines do, but this is not the best o-line yet either. So that leaves Boldin or Freddie in single coverage. Now I give credit to Sully for switching up the game plan and going to the air with Blake. In years past we would have continued to run the ball into 8 and 9 man boxes and gone 3 and out over and over again. All that said... It's the o-line's job to pick up the blitz and give Blake 1 second for every two steps he takes in his drop. That equates to 1.5 seconds for a three step drop, 2.5 seconds for a five step drop and 3.5 seconds for a seven step drop. Blake didn't get this standard of protection. At all. He was still in his fourth step of a five step drop and already the pocket was collapsing on him, causing him to leave the pocket and cut the field in half and force throws through lanes that weren't there. Also keep in mind that Blake isn't the tallest QB in the league either. Once he starts moving, his vision is seriously impaired. If the o-line would have provided at least the normal amount of protection, I think we see a mistake-free game from Blake and potentially a different outcome in the game.

 

[Cardiologist]

Is the Detroit Lions defense really a good measuring stick when it comes to the Cardinals offense? Their secondary is horrible and could be the worst in the NFL this season. Yes, Q had a great game, but can he play that well against better secondaries? Time will tell.

It looks like the Seattle defense has improved, but they are still not a very good defense.

I prefer to hold off judgment on the Cardinals offense until I see them in a few more games against better defenses.

 

[Snakester]

Originally posted by Cardiologist
Is the Detroit Lions defense really a good measuring stick when it comes to the Cardinals offense? Their secondary is horrible and could be the worst in the NFL this season. Yes, Q had a great game, but can he play that well against better secondaries? Time will tell.

It looks like the Seattle defense has improved, but they are still not a very good defense.

I prefer to hold off judgment on the Cardinals offense until I see them in a few more games against better defenses.

I agree that the Lions don't have the best defense around but they do have a lot of good players on their D.

I think Boldin can beat any defense that single covers him or play's a zone defense.

If the Cards can play turnover free football I think they have a chance at beating the Seahags. I think it will depend a lot on our coaching staff, they have got to put on their thinking caps and adjust to what the other team is doing for once.

 

[az1965]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Emmitt Smith averaged 4.5 ypc and Marcel Shipp 4.75 ypc against Detroit.

Emitt had 4.9 ypc (13 carries for 64 yards)!! Imagine if we had not fallen so far behind and ran the ball in the second half...

 

[BACH]

Re: Hey Buddy

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
You're right about Dish.....cut his sorry arse and give Wells or Wragge or someone else a chance.

IMO Dish was choosen over of Wragge el al because of experience. I think you're forgetting that Dish is actually the #5 guard on the team behind Davis, Spikes, Garcia and Roundtree. If these four players were available Dish wouldn't be on the team.

 

[JeffGollin]

The YPG stats are a bit misleading.

Emmitt's 2 long runs helped pad his stat. One of them was legit, and was helped by good blocking, but he got nailed in the backfield on the other one, but used his strength to break free.

When judging how effective an O-line is blocking, I'd rather review all the carries individually - i.e. Does it look like +5, +6, +4, +8 +9, +3, +4, +7, +6, +8? Or is it more like -3, -1, -2, 0, +1, -2, +38, -2, +25, +3?

While an occasional long run will get you out of trouble, put you in good field position or even flip a game, racking up consistent gains of 5 yards or so will move the chains more frequently and give you more options in play calling (i.e. you're not always facing 2nd or 3rd and long).

Our biggest problem seems to be at both guards (though if we get lucky and Leonard can stay on the field, half the problem will be solved). What's everyone's take on Spikes? Is he playing out of position (i.e. is he a better RG than LG?) Do you think Garcia and Roundtree will fix the problem on the left side once they get back?

Incidently, I'm not positive but I am reasonably sure that a key block that sprung Emmitt on his one legit run was by none other than Anquan Boldin.

 

[Northern Card]

Can't argue with you on the issue of lack of consistency in the running game in game one, but - what TEAM in the league is capable of a consistent 5 yards a pop throughout a season?

Don't have the STATS, but I think the best TEAM rushing averages are slightly above 4 yards per carry...

 

[Cardiologist]

Originally posted by Snakester
I agree that the Lions don't have the best defense around but they do have a lot of good players on their D.

I think Boldin can beat any defense that single covers him or play's a zone defense.

If the Cards can play turnover free football I think they have a chance at beating the Seahags. I think it will depend a lot on our coaching staff, they have got to put on their thinking caps and adjust to what the other team is doing for once.

Yes, Boldin will now be the focal point of the next defensive coordinator. I do not think Boldin will have a another game like he did this past Sunday. Detroit 's defense was one of the worst last season and their secondary still stinks this season. Where Boldin is capable of making the catch he will. Where Blake is capable of making the throw, he might. I am sorry, but I am not as giddy over the offensive performance as you are. Seattle does not have a great defense, but they are better than Detroit so let's see what Boldin and the others do against the Seahawks. I don't think they will do as good as they did last week.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Cardiologist
Is the Detroit Lions defense really a good measuring stick when it comes to the Cardinals offense? Their secondary is horrible and could be the worst in the NFL this season. Yes, Q had a great game, but can he play that well against better secondaries? Time will tell.

It looks like the Seattle defense has improved, but they are still not a very good defense.

I prefer to hold off judgment on the Cardinals offense until I see them in a few more games against better defenses.

Yes but they have a good DL as their fans said, and it was proven. They held their own and put heat on Blake without having to blitz a whole lot. That Blake was able to buy himself time and make plays speaks volumes.

Again, the first TD to Boldin, and the TD to Jones were both plays where Blake went away from his primary WR(I THINK on the first one it IS possible Boldin was the primary). Jones was like the 4th option on his TD. That hasn't happened here in years.

If it continues and the bad Blake we saw later doesn't come back, we can be a pretty good offense. Where I took fault with Sully is not running more once Detroit was out of that stacked defense, and they DID get out of it eventually.

 

[Cardiologist]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Yes but they have a good DL as their fans said, and it was proven. They held their own and put heat on Blake without having to blitz a whole lot. That Blake was able to buy himself time and make plays speaks volumes.

Again, the first TD to Boldin, and the TD to Jones were both plays where Blake went away from his primary WR(I THINK on the first one it IS possible Boldin was the primary). Jones was like the 4th option on his TD. That hasn't happened here in years.

If it continues and the bad Blake we saw later doesn't come back, we can be a pretty good offense. Where I took fault with Sully is not running more once Detroit was out of that stacked defense, and they DID get out of it eventually.

Just curious, take away Boldin's great run after the catch on his 2nd TD and what would Blake's stats be? Blake's stats would be just average at best. He would have passed for just under 300 yards and threw only 2 TDs and 1 pick.

Detroit's DL is good, but their secondary is horrible. Blake can scramble and buy himself more time, but when he scrambles against a better secondary he will not find as many options open as he did Sunday.

I'm sorry. I am a jaded Cards fan and do not believe that the Cardinals preseason is an indication of their talent. I think they are the same old Cards who will have the same old record when all is said and done at the end of the season.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Emmitt Smith averaged 4.5 ypc and Marcel Shipp 4.75 ypc against Detroit.

'Frankly, other than first series jitters, and bad play from Dishman, I thought the oline played very well.

Maybe we were watching different games, then. I'm in Jeff's camp on this one. The offensive line did not play to their billing, and it was poor planning on the part of Mac and Graves that allowed Dishman onto the field in the first quarter. No holes were opened, and James Hodgins, when on the field, was forced to block defensive tackles (a battle he can't win) instead of middle linebackers (where he has the advantage).

 

[john h]

Originally posted by Snakester
I agree that the Lions don't have the best defense around but they do have a lot of good players on their D.

I think Boldin can beat any defense that single covers him or play's a zone defense.

If the Cards can play turnover free football I think they have a chance at beating the Seahags. I think it will depend a lot on our coaching staff, they have got to put on their thinking caps and adjust to what the other team is doing for once.

I need to see at least two more games before I am ready to give a grade to this team. I will give a grade of F to whoever is responible for the false starts and not getting the plays off on time. Were the plays slow getting to the QB? Does anyone know?

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Cardiologist
Just curious, take away Boldin's great run after the catch on his 2nd TD and what would Blake's stats be? Blake's stats would be just average at best. He would have passed for just under 300 yards and threw only 2 TDs and 1 pick.

Detroit's DL is good, but their secondary is horrible. Blake can scramble and buy himself more time, but when he scrambles against a better secondary he will not find as many options open as he did Sunday.

I'm sorry. I am a jaded Cards fan and do not believe that the Cardinals preseason is an indication of their talent. I think they are the same old Cards who will have the same old record when all is said and done at the end of the season.

Well if you get to take away a play so do I and I take away the INT (-:

I see your point but Blake hit him in stride and Anquan made a great play. That's the point of that sort of throw anyways hit a guy in stride and let him run. I'd say 292 yards(if you take that play away) is still better than average, the last guy had 7 300 yard games in 82 starts here.

add in the drop by Johnson and we're over 300 yards with 3 Td's easily. And Blake didn't play that well for much of the 2nd half, if he had who knows what his stats would have looked like. Detroit's secondary stinks, but Blake made some nice plays too. He has to get rid of the big mistakes he made, I'm hoping it was the effects of the hit.


I just hope our special teams are better than they showed or it will be a whole year of teams starting at the 40 yard line.

 

[Lars the Red]

Is there anyone on the board that wouldn't take Detroits D-Line over ours? Give me Big Daddy, Rogers, Porcher and Hall anyday. Heck, if you want to get crazy, I'm not sure I wouldn't seriously consider Kalimba Edwards, Cory Redding, Jared DeVries and Kelvin Pritchet if push came to shove, and those are their backups.

Our offensive line, which was playing together for one of the few times this season, lost it's #1 player on the first series. AC, who is a veteren player made way too many mental mistakes. He wasn't going on the wrong count, he stood up after being set, he leaned to get a jump on the End. Those are not because he couldn't hear Blake, they are brain farts that one does not expect from a player of his experience. Dish, who has always been a favorite of mine, looked absolutely overmatched. He was pushed around, came out of his stance way too slowly and frankly looked in horrible shape.

The line does not get a muligan on this game. They played below their capabilities. They need to get much nastier in order to become the force we have been expecting them to be.

 

[JasonKGME]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
The YPG stats are a bit misleading.

Emmitt's 2 long runs helped pad his stat. One of them was legit, and was helped by good blocking, but he got nailed in the backfield on the other one, but used his strength to break free.

When judging how effective an O-line is blocking, I'd rather review all the carries individually - i.e. Does it look like +5, +6, +4, +8 +9, +3, +4, +7, +6, +8? Or is it more like -3, -1, -2, 0, +1, -2, +38, -2, +25, +3?

While an occasional long run will get you out of trouble, put you in good field position or even flip a game, racking up consistent gains of 5 yards or so will move the chains more frequently and give you more options in play calling (i.e. you're not always facing 2nd or 3rd and long).

Our biggest problem seems to be at both guards (though if we get lucky and Leonard can stay on the field, half the problem will be solved). What's everyone's take on Spikes? Is he playing out of position (i.e. is he a better RG than LG?) Do you think Garcia and Roundtree will fix the problem on the left side once they get back?

Incidently, I'm not positive but I am reasonably sure that a key block that sprung Emmitt on his one legit run was by none other than Anquan Boldin.

Just cus ya mentioned it here were Smith's runs:

1, 0, 2, 3, -2, 3, 19, 22, 6, 1, 0, 1, 8.

Shipps runs:

11, 0, 9, 3, -4

Total of 3+ runs = 9
Total of 2- runs = 9

Rushing yardage breakdown of top rusher in the league this week Tiki Barber:

10, 13, 2, 0, 0, 3, 2, 6, -3, 6, -3, 1, 1, 15, 22, 0, 11, 19, 17, -1, -4, 3, 1, 1, 21

3+ = 12
2- = 12

Looks like the main diffrence is that Tiki Barber was on a winning team. He had 4 rushes for negative yards out of 25 carries or 16%, Smith/Shipp had 3 out of 18 or 16.7%. Barber had no gains on 3 of his 25 or 12%, Smith/Shipp had 3 on 18 carries or 16.7%. Barber had 1 yard gains on 4 of his 25 carries or 16%, Shipp/Smith had 3 of 18 or 16.7%. Seems pretty even all the way around.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by JasonKGME
Seems pretty even all the way around.

Perhaps, but Tiki is playing on one of the worst (talented) Offensive Lines in the league (I believe that they replaced 2 or 3 starters). Their starting LG, C, and RT were undrafted free agents, and their starting RG is a rookie fifth round draft pick.

The fact that this cast of nobodies compares to our outrageously-overpaid offensive line does little to credit the play of the Big Glass Line.

 

[Cardiologist]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Well if you get to take away a play so do I and I take away the INT (-:

I see your point but Blake hit him in stride and Anquan made a great play. That's the point of that sort of throw anyways hit a guy in stride and let him run. I'd say 292 yards(if you take that play away) is still better than average, the last guy had 7 300 yard games in 82 starts here.

add in the drop by Johnson and we're over 300 yards with 3 Td's easily. And Blake didn't play that well for much of the 2nd half, if he had who knows what his stats would have looked like. Detroit's secondary stinks, but Blake made some nice plays too. He has to get rid of the big mistakes he made, I'm hoping it was the effects of the hit.


I just hope our special teams are better than they showed or it will be a whole year of teams starting at the 40 yard line.

I never said "remove the play or catch". What I said was remove the run after the catch. Because Blake had nothing to do with it and it inflated his yards passed and QB rating.

If you are basing Blake's stats off of what Jake Bummer did you will be happy, but if you base Blake's numbers (minus Boldin's run after the catch) his numbers are merely average at best.

I don't have much faith in Blake. He will have good games every now and then, but normally he will play slightly below average - average ... which is an improvement from what was here. The difference is that the previous QB had a more experienced WRs corps to rescue him.