Name change rumor?

[40yearfan]

As a long time Phoenix resident and an even longer Cardinals fan, I am totally against any name change and would consider dropping my season tickets if indeed they did decide to change the name. History and tradition are an important part of anyones' heritage and should be an over riding factor when considering something like this. I think you will see that a great majority of the long time fans will agree with me.

To me, it would be like if my son came up to me and said he was going to change his last name because the family name was no longer applicable. Hundreds of years of tradition and pride thrown out the window on a premise of change for changes sake.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Originally posted by jon_nyaz
Thanks for taking a rational, unselfish stance on this issue Jersey Girl - - though it may only be a rumor. A true fan wants what's best for the team and you obviously stand for that. You should be applauded! The next time you want to come see a game at Sun Devil Stadium, let me know and I will provide you great seats (at least as great as can be expected) at no expense to you.

I'm holding you to that, Jon.

 

[jon_nyaz]

Originally posted by Jersey Girl Cards Fan
I'm holding you to that, Jon.

And you should.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by 40yearfan

To me, it would be like if my son came up to me and said he was going to change his last name because the family name was no longer applicable. Hundreds of years of tradition and pride thrown out the window on a premise of change for changes sake.

But to play Devil's advocate, what if your last name was "Hitler" or "Bin Laden?" Wouldn't then the history and tradition associated with that name make it more palatable if your son wanted to change it?

 

[Jersey Girl]

Re: I Think

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
I think she said she would change team allegiance....and you think that's OK?

Actually, I don't know what the heck I would do if they changed the name. Technically, I didn't get into football until they moved the team to AZ. I was there on vacation the summer before the first season and there was excitement everywhere. That's why I picked the Cards. That excitement, for the most part, has gone. Should I change who I root for now that there is no excitement?

I meant that it would be strange not being able to yell "Way to go, Cards!" and, more likely and often "You Cardinals suck!"

I'd prefer to keep the name the same, but like Rugby and I said, we're not in AZ. We're not there every week duking it out with opposing fans and sitting in a mostly empty stadium. I know all us outta state fans love the Cards, but they are Arizona's team first, our team second. Gotta respect that.

That said, I don't see a name and image change alone giving this team a 180 degree turn around.

Will I change teams if there is no "Cardinals?" I dunno and it really is pointless to waste my energy thinking about it right now. Besides, I don't want to say anything to piss Jon off since he's hooking me up with great seats on my next AZ visit.

 

[ChiCard]

To keep their traditions alive, I say change the name to the Arizona Cubs.

 

[Houdini]

Compromise.

If Bidwill changed his name, you'd get a name change without losing the Cardinals, and maybe some more Arizona residents would buy season tickets because they think they got a new owner

 

[jon_nyaz]

Originally posted by Pariah
But to play Devil's advocate, what if your last name was "Hitler" or "Bin Laden?" Wouldn't then the history and tradition associated with that name make it more palatable if your son wanted to change it?

And it's not change for change's sake. It's change for the fan's sake. At least the local fans.

 

[jon_nyaz]

Re: Re: I Think

Originally posted by Jersey Girl Cards Fan
Actually, I don't know what the heck I would do if they changed the name. Technically, I didn't get into football until they moved the team to AZ. I was there on vacation the summer before the first season and there was excitement everywhere. That's why I picked the Cards. That excitement, for the most part, has gone. Should I change who I root for now that there is no excitement?

I meant that it would be strange not being able to yell "Way to go, Cards!" and, more likely and often "You Cardinals suck!"

I'd prefer to keep the name the same, but like Rugby and I said, we're not in AZ. We're not there every week duking it out with opposing fans and sitting in a mostly empty stadium. I know all us outta state fans love the Cards, but they are Arizona's team first, our team second. Gotta respect that.

That said, I don't see a name and image change alone giving this team a 180 degree turn around.

Will I change teams if there is no "Cardinals?" I dunno and it really is pointless to waste my energy thinking about it right now. Besides, I don't want to say anything to piss Jon off since he's hooking me up with great seats on my next AZ visit.

Clever girl!

 

[Houdini]

I can see both sides to the argument. I would lean towards not changing the name though, but for different reasons. I'm a big believer in honoring and embracing your tradition and past.

The Cardinals don't have a great tradition, but to change the name in my opinion kind of cuts off their ties with past greats like Larry Wilson, Jim Hart, Dan Dierdorf, etc,,, I think it kind of does a disservice to those players that gave their all to the Cardinal franchise that those Cardinal years of past don't matter anymore if you change the team name. Lots of teams bring back their ex great players and honor them at halftime, or make them honorary captains during gamedays. I'm a big believer in showing apprecation to ex-players who gave their all long after their careers are over. I don't think they'd feel a part of the Arizona Wranglers organization.

 

[Shane]

Re: Re: Not The Point

Originally posted by SECTION 11
I think they hate the reality of almost non-existent fan support more than simply the name "Cardinals."

Nobody's naive enough to think that changing a name is going to translate instantly into W's.


Let me pose this question... If winning is the only cure for fan support, then why was there only 23,127 (in paid attendance, not actual attendance) at the home opener? We'd only lost one game at that point. We had a blossoming star in Boldin. We had a new start, a new season, yet nobody came. Why?

My answer is that nobody came because nobody cares about this team. Nobody cares because the consensus in the Valley is that this isn't their team.
Bringing fans in with wins alone is bringing in bandwagon, fair-weather fans. Great for a little while, but not a long term solution.
Bringing fans in with something they can call their own (like the Coyotes and Titans for example) is bringing in a fan base, like your Cubs, like your Browns, that will be with the team through thick and thin, not just when things are going well.

First and foremost although I live In Las Vegas I am 100% Arizonan! I grew up there and once my career is over I will return and retire there.

I would be all for uniform change(even though I love the current ones)! But a name change would seriously dishearten me. This is the team I have grown to love since they came to AZ. Oh and they do have a name of an animal that is native to Arizona as there logo!

Your post above Section 11 is flawed. Yes only 23,000 or so fans showed up to the home opener. yes it is because of wins and the long history of having a lack of them. To many times at the beginning of the season people have been let down by this team including us fans who never wane in our support of them. So people in general are tired of being let down. After that piss poor performance in Detroit can you really blame them?

If you change the name in 2006 and you have 60,000 fans there for the season opener but by weak 8 the team is 1-7 crowds will be exactly back to where they were pre Cardinal days. People will be just as disheartened and would start making cracks like Jersey Girl stated. That would be fact. Nothing would change! They would continue to rag on Bidwill like before and many would say they wish we would have just gotten an expansion team instead. They would continue to say that they wish they never would have approved the new stadium and that they were suckered into buying new logo apparell!

People arent going to be fooled by this ownership trying to use such a ploy. Thats all it would be is a ploy as well. Much like the Emmitt signing!

Also the team would truly be alienating thousands of fans from around the country. The old timers who have stayed loyal and recognize the Cardinals as their team. What they gain in a few months of support from fair weather AZ fans would nowhere near replace the decades of support which that old but loyal group of fans have given to this organization!

The name needs to remain the same! It is rich in tradition which means alot to many of us! My memories of the great Cardinals Players that have played hear just wouldnt be the same as Im watching the Phoenix or the Toros or whatever! The ring of fame and retired jerseys from years past wouldnt have the same meaning anymore.

The Cardinals is what they are and the Cardinals is what they should stay!

Including almost two decades of tradition in AZ now as well.

 

[Lex]

Houdini- the ex-cardinals you talk about, don't feel like they're a part of the orginization now. We have nothing to lose.

Honoring past Cardinal greats at halftime, and putting them in a ring of honor, has already happened...in St. Louis, by the LA Rams.

How messed up is that?

 

[Houdini]

Originally posted by Lex
Houdini- the ex-cardinals you talk about, don't feel like they're a part of the orginization now. We have nothing to lose.

Honoring past Cardinal greats at halftime, and putting them in a ring of honor, has already happened...in St. Louis, by the LA Rams.

How messed up is that?

I know. That's another thing I blame on Bidwill. I think he should be honoring his ex-players. Dierdorf said it didn't feel right that his name is up in St Louis along with Jackie Slater of the Rams, but he felt Bidlwill would never honor them so he appreciated the Rams' efforts.

 

[conraddobler]

Just change it to the wesuckisucki longstockings.


Put a picture of a little girl on the helmets it would fit this team.


But I'm not bitter.

 

[SECTION 11]

If this team did indeed have as much tradition and history as it espouses, then why did it move from Chicago? Why did it move from St. Louis? That flys in the face of the tradition and history. It's hypocritical.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
If this team did indeed have as much tradition and history as it espouses, then why did it move from Chicago? Why did it move from St. Louis? That flys in the face of the tradition and history. It's hypocritical.

How is that hypocritical please explain that????

That is apart of the teams history and rich tradition. The two walk hand in hand. It is the oldest continuously run football orgnization on the planet. That cannot be denied! Any way you spin it thats tradition and its most certainly history!!

They moved because that what was best for the organization at the time nothing more and nothing less!

 

[Lex]

Blame Bidwill? Where should he put up his ring of fame? The training facility? Sun Devil Stadium? The Walkup Skydome? Busch Stadium?

Dierdorf badmouths the Cardinals every chance he gets. You will never convince me that Dan Dierdorf isn't smart enough to know Bidwill has NEVER had a place to put up a ring of fame, so his comments on the issue are punative at best.

 

[Houdini]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
If this team did indeed have as much tradition and history as it espouses, then why did it move from Chicago? Why did it move from St. Louis? That flys in the face of the tradition and history. It's hypocritical.

If the Cardinals would have changed their name in St. Louis, it wouldn't have solved all their problems then. I don't see a name change solving their problems now either.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
If this team did indeed have as much tradition and history as it espouses, then why did it move from Chicago? Why did it move from St. Louis? That flys in the face of the tradition and history. It's hypocritical.

Well, the team was originally the Racine-Normal Cardinals. So the team had long history and tradition of moving. The only thing there from the beginning is the nickname "Cardinals". After the color, not the bird.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Shane H
How is that hypocritical please explain that????

The Cardinals are very cognizant about their tradition, their heritage, their history, and who can blame them? They are in fact the oldest continually operated franchise in the NFL.
It's hypocritical of them to stand on this platform and at the same time pick up and move on their fans, not once, but twice. Would a team built on tradition abandon it's fans like this?
Can it happen again? As long as the tradition is as introverted as it is, I'd say most definately.

If this team actually had tradition it would still be in Chicago, or at least St. Louis.

Tradition is defined as, "A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation."
How many kids are growing up to be Cardinal fans in the cities that made them traditional and historic in the first place?

The Bidwill family has tradition, and most of the fans that helped build that tradition now have new home teams to root for.

Would it be traditional and historically sound for the Packers to move to Portland? No. It'd be a shame.

 

[FanOfTheGame1]

<< We spend lots of money, time and emotional energy supporting this team despite the fact that it just ain't fun. >>

There must be a psychological term for this. And it ain't a complementary one.

<< It's our loyalty to the team and to the State of Arizona that keeps us going. >>

I fail to see how loyalty to the state is relevant.

<< All we want is something to sink our teeth into that makes the experience enjoyable. Changing the identity of the team would really enhance the experience for us local fans. >>

Still don't see how.

<< And having a stadium full of fans that all want your team to win is thrilling. >>

That's completely beyond your control. What is in your control is how you spend your money. You're spending it on something you don't enjoy.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
Well, the team was originally the Racine-Normal Cardinals. So the team had long history and tradition of moving. The only thing there from the beginning is the nickname "Cardinals". After the color, not the bird.

They were also not originally owned by the Bidwills and were originally called both the Normals and the Morgan Athletic Club, so there seems to be some precedent for doing what's best for the organization.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
there seems to be some precedent for doing what's best for the organization.

You, sir, are a master of the obvious.

 

[conraddobler]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
The Cardinals are very cognizant about their tradition, their heritage, their history, and who can blame them? They are in fact the oldest continually operated franchise in the NFL.
It's hypocritical of them to stand on this platform and at the same time pick up and move on their fans, not once, but twice. Would a team built on tradition abandon it's fans like this?
Can it happen again? As long as the tradition is as introverted as it is, I'd say most definately.

If this team actually had tradition it would still be in Chicago, or at least St. Louis.

Tradition is defined as, "A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation."
How many kids are growing up to be Cardinal fans in the cities that made them traditional and historic in the first place?

The Bidwill family has tradition, and most of the fans that helped build that tradition now have new home teams to root for.

Would it be traditional and historically sound for the Packers to move to Portland? No. It'd be a shame.

I agree and if you look closely at the Bidwills they need to take George from Seinfelds advice and pretty much do the opposite of any impulse they have. We'd all be celebrating a SB victory about a year later.

They are all implants from a negativly charged universe. The real bidwills are over in theirs winning championship after championship and they make movies about them.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by FanOfTheGame1
.

It must be absolutely thrilling to root for the NFL!!

That's what sports is all about. No Highs. No Lows. Just complacency. Weeeeee.