That's an odd concept, I've never seen such a beast yet
Name change rumor?
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That's an odd concept, I've never seen such a beast yet
BuckeyeCardinal
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yeah
Nah....did it on arseholes.
I was tryin to be nice wishin you luck on your MBA but you're too frikkin stupid to get it.
Nah....did it on arseholes.
I was tryin to be nice wishin you luck on your MBA but you're too frikkin stupid to get it.
jon_nyaz
The art of music
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yeah
Ah, it was autobiographical then. Seeing as how you're the expert on the subject I see now why you were able to secure your PhD. Congrats!
EDIT: If you were "truly" trying to be nice then I apologize. It just seemed like you were more interested in pointing out that you have a PhD. It doesn't matter. We agree to disagree about the identity thing. I will never see it your way and you obviously won't see it my way.
Ah, it was autobiographical then. Seeing as how you're the expert on the subject I see now why you were able to secure your PhD. Congrats!
EDIT: If you were "truly" trying to be nice then I apologize. It just seemed like you were more interested in pointing out that you have a PhD. It doesn't matter. We agree to disagree about the identity thing. I will never see it your way and you obviously won't see it my way.
SECTION 11
vibraslap
Re: Re: Re: Well
No sweat Buckeye.
I'd consider myself pretty passionate about the team as well.
We're all just thinking out loud here. The Bidwills have tried to market the team without losing any of the long-time die-hards, and I think that's a good idea.
There has to be some sort of happy medium that will reach the locals as well though, and to this point I can't honestly say that that's happened, or at least hasn't happened successfully.
Nobody wants anyone to be alienated, especially the long-time fans.
No sweat Buckeye.
I'd consider myself pretty passionate about the team as well.
We're all just thinking out loud here. The Bidwills have tried to market the team without losing any of the long-time die-hards, and I think that's a good idea.
There has to be some sort of happy medium that will reach the locals as well though, and to this point I can't honestly say that that's happened, or at least hasn't happened successfully.
Nobody wants anyone to be alienated, especially the long-time fans.
BuckeyeCardinal
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11
I apologize to everyone who gets reemed by my because of my loyalty to the Cards.
I apologize to everyone who thinks the Cards suck and we should change the name.
The term football Cardinal means nothing to people like JON and other fair weather fans. I'm sure they want a winner in Arizona. What they fail to realize is that this is a team that is going nowhere unless the ownership changes. You can change the names....you can change the uniforms.....you can change the stadium.....you still have an ownership who thinks they're losing money.....they won't spend money....and players from other teams who ARE REALLY GOOD won't come here becasue they think the ownership sucks and the coaches suck.
Want to dispute that JON?
I apologize to everyone who gets reemed by my because of my loyalty to the Cards.
I apologize to everyone who thinks the Cards suck and we should change the name.
The term football Cardinal means nothing to people like JON and other fair weather fans. I'm sure they want a winner in Arizona. What they fail to realize is that this is a team that is going nowhere unless the ownership changes. You can change the names....you can change the uniforms.....you can change the stadium.....you still have an ownership who thinks they're losing money.....they won't spend money....and players from other teams who ARE REALLY GOOD won't come here becasue they think the ownership sucks and the coaches suck.
Want to dispute that JON?
I used to be a rabid Oilers fan since 1978. And they became my 2nd favorite team when the Cards came to Phoenix and took over the top spot.
My 2 worst days in Pro Sports were 1.) When Bum Phillips was fired shortly after the AFC title game when they lost to Pittsburgh again, and 2.) the freaking frank reich comeback in the playoffs. (I still refuse to capitalize his name)
Anyways, I still rooted for them when they the Tennessee Oilers except if they ever scrummed vs. the Cards. When they became the Titans - I lost the identity and the passion. Now they are only another AFC team to me.
So I can understand the feelings here.
My 2 worst days in Pro Sports were 1.) When Bum Phillips was fired shortly after the AFC title game when they lost to Pittsburgh again, and 2.) the freaking frank reich comeback in the playoffs. (I still refuse to capitalize his name)
Anyways, I still rooted for them when they the Tennessee Oilers except if they ever scrummed vs. the Cards. When they became the Titans - I lost the identity and the passion. Now they are only another AFC team to me.
So I can understand the feelings here.
FanOfTheGame1
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The only reason the Cardinals haven't gone out of business is because of their share of the TV revenue, which comes from the networks, and from the sponsors. Who decides how much money is passed back and forth? The marketing and advertising people, because of their fancy theories about "eyeballs" and "branding" and such.
Ah, but you say "I don't watch the commercials. I'm always surfing between games." Or "I don't watch commercials, period." I suspect most people say that.
That's what I mean when I say the entire advertising, marketing and promotion industry is a big fraud. Companies pay for marketing and commercials because... their marketing people tell them they have to. It's never made any sense to me. They just "know" they are right.
Just my opinion.
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vibraslap
I can see that.
But from Tennessee's perspective, the new fan base that's been created has been equally irreplaceable.
Lex
troublemaker
You are totally wrong here Buckeye.
You are a typical St. Louis Cardinal fan. You know how many times us Arizonans have heard that crap that you just posted? "Football Cardinals" is a prime example, it comes from somewhere that once needed to seperate football and baseball franchises.
We don't care about your emotional baggage.
I personally couldn't care less what they call our NFL franchise. But, I do get sick and tired of the centuries old baggage that is continually shoved down our throats by long time die hards.
You are a typical St. Louis Cardinal fan. You know how many times us Arizonans have heard that crap that you just posted? "Football Cardinals" is a prime example, it comes from somewhere that once needed to seperate football and baseball franchises.
We don't care about your emotional baggage.
I personally couldn't care less what they call our NFL franchise. But, I do get sick and tired of the centuries old baggage that is continually shoved down our throats by long time die hards.
BuckeyeCardinal
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yeah
Sorry....I know you're a Cards fan otherwise you wouldn't be on this board.
I'm just a person ya don't want to bring the Cards name change to because I've suffered so much being a Cards fan.
If you guys want to change the name and you think it will bring you success then good luck.
Adios.
Originally posted by jon_nyaz
Ah, it was autobiographical then. Seeing as how you're the expert on the subject I see now why you were able to secure your PhD. Congrats!
EDIT: If you were "truly" trying to be nice then I apologize. It just seemed like you were more interested in pointing out that you have a PhD. It doesn't matter. We agree to disagree about the identity thing. I will never see it your way and you obviously won't see it my way.
Sorry....I know you're a Cards fan otherwise you wouldn't be on this board.
I'm just a person ya don't want to bring the Cards name change to because I've suffered so much being a Cards fan.
If you guys want to change the name and you think it will bring you success then good luck.
Adios.
jon_nyaz
The art of music
Re: 11
I suppose I resent being called a "Fair Weather Fan" because I don't live in some far-off place and root for the Cardinals. You sure have strange opinions for someone with such a laudable academic background. Let me ask you this DuckEye, how many Cardinal games have you been to in the last 9 years? I've been to about 85. I've spent approximately $10,000 on season's tickets, probably $2,000 on concessions and over $600 on merchandise during that time. I've sat through triple digit heat and dealt with drunken, violent and obnoxious fans from every team in the league. I was even provoked and threatened by Terry Allen RB for the Redskins because of my supposed "fairweather" attitude towards the team. So you ought to think twice about casting those stones pal.
As far as your little tirade about the ownership, that is something that belongs in another thread. There are plenty of anti-Bidwill threads to comment on and I might even agree with some of what you said.
I suppose I resent being called a "Fair Weather Fan" because I don't live in some far-off place and root for the Cardinals. You sure have strange opinions for someone with such a laudable academic background. Let me ask you this DuckEye, how many Cardinal games have you been to in the last 9 years? I've been to about 85. I've spent approximately $10,000 on season's tickets, probably $2,000 on concessions and over $600 on merchandise during that time. I've sat through triple digit heat and dealt with drunken, violent and obnoxious fans from every team in the league. I was even provoked and threatened by Terry Allen RB for the Redskins because of my supposed "fairweather" attitude towards the team. So you ought to think twice about casting those stones pal.
As far as your little tirade about the ownership, that is something that belongs in another thread. There are plenty of anti-Bidwill threads to comment on and I might even agree with some of what you said.
BuckeyeCardinal
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Fine Lex
Fine Lex....you've taken my team away from me.....have a great season.
I hope the Bengals win.....you've convinced me I don't deserve to be a Cards fan because I don't live there or pay big bucks for tickets.......byebye.
In this one thread you experts have convinced me to be a non-Cards fan or whatever you call it just because I don't live there....I wonder if it will take....hell you don't care anyway.
Fine Lex....you've taken my team away from me.....have a great season.
I hope the Bengals win.....you've convinced me I don't deserve to be a Cards fan because I don't live there or pay big bucks for tickets.......byebye.
In this one thread you experts have convinced me to be a non-Cards fan or whatever you call it just because I don't live there....I wonder if it will take....hell you don't care anyway.
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Quick--think of Budweiser. What comes to mind? Beer, certainly. But maybe Clydesdales, maybe frogs, maybe a red and white label with gold lettering. Maybe "King of Beers."
All of that is marketing and branding, too. Not just commercials. If none of that comes to mind, well then, okay. You're an exeption to the rule, but I'll bet some of it does come to mind, and even if it doesn't, I'll bet you know what I'm talking about with every one of those things I mentioned.
The reason all of those things are so prevailent in peoples minds is because of marketing. It works. Like it or not, marketing does have a function, and a legitimate one in today's society.
jon_nyaz
The art of music
There are many, many, many sources you can go to, to help quantify the value of marketing. Billions are spent on marketing, and it couldn't possibly all be because some corporate marketing dude said the company had to spend that money or else.
Besides which, Marketing takes many more forms than just television advertising. And you know what? Lots of people watch the commercials during the games because they are more entertaining than the game itself.
JeffGollin
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I have heard rumors from sources close to Michael Bidwill (supposedly)
I cannot recall a single instance where someone has posted that they have "inside info" from unnamed sources where the information turned out to be credible.
I'm not saying that the rumor isn't credible. I'm just saying that, based on past experience, I'd probably file it away in the "Interesting" box and let it go as that.
Nevertheless, discussing a name change is a pretty good way to fill up time during an off-week.
Determining who you root for is probably 95% emotional and 5% rational (in fact, make that 100%/0%). It's hard, therefore, to know how our emotions might shift should they change the team name.
Do we root for the name? The uniform? The city? Certain players? The owners (hmmm)? The team's W's & L's? Because we always did root for them? It's hard to determine hypothetically how that would all sort out.
Trying to fast-forward a year or two, I'd guess that a change from the Cardinal name (unless it was to a really inspiring new name) would make it much easier for me to wind up rooting for some other team (though probably never as rabidly as I have the Cardinals).
I'm with Mr. B Senior on this one.
I cannot recall a single instance where someone has posted that they have "inside info" from unnamed sources where the information turned out to be credible.
I'm not saying that the rumor isn't credible. I'm just saying that, based on past experience, I'd probably file it away in the "Interesting" box and let it go as that.
Nevertheless, discussing a name change is a pretty good way to fill up time during an off-week.
Determining who you root for is probably 95% emotional and 5% rational (in fact, make that 100%/0%). It's hard, therefore, to know how our emotions might shift should they change the team name.
Do we root for the name? The uniform? The city? Certain players? The owners (hmmm)? The team's W's & L's? Because we always did root for them? It's hard to determine hypothetically how that would all sort out.
Trying to fast-forward a year or two, I'd guess that a change from the Cardinal name (unless it was to a really inspiring new name) would make it much easier for me to wind up rooting for some other team (though probably never as rabidly as I have the Cardinals).
I'm with Mr. B Senior on this one.
BuckeyeCardinal
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Not The Point
The point is that there are a group of fans who hate the Cards name.
That must be the reason we're losin this year.
The point is that there are a group of fans who hate the Cards name.
That must be the reason we're losin this year.
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vibraslap
Great questions.
I love the name-change debate. It's one of my favorites. There's so much to consider for it.
jon_nyaz
The art of music
And interesting to note that you are located in New Jersey. So it seems pretty obvious that out of staters don't want to change the name and most of the in-staters do. I gotta tell ya, we get tired of sitting in an empty stadium, or sitting in a packed stadium where everyone else is rooting for the other team. The Cardinals keep their name because of tradition all right. And I think that is one of the most mis-guided decisions they have made since they got here. It's right up there with relying on a handshake to get a $200 million stadium built.
BuckeyeCardinal
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Yeah
The name change debate is deux ex machina.
The name change debate is deux ex machina.
Originally posted by RugbyMuffin
Nope.
If it helps out the organization, and all in-state/hometeam fans then do it!!
If it is the right move to do for Arizona, and the football organization then do it.
Out of staters would be **** out of luck.
I was just saying that in MY case, and maybe in other peoples minds that once/if the Cardinals name was killed off they would stop rooting for the team in Arizona and find another one.
You gotta also remember this Cardinals team was also in Chicago and St. Louis. So those Cardinals fans would probably turn to the Bears, or Rams. Yecch!
So you lose some out of state fans? WHO cares? If the change is needed then the change is needed.
If it happens:
I will root for the Cards untill 2006 and then when they change I guess I got to find another team. Good news for Arizona based fans, and bad news for out of state Cardinals fans.
Peace
As a fellow New Jerseyan, I completely agree, Rugby. It would really, really suck if I couldn't root for the Cardinals anymore, but if it meant getting a nice fan base in AZ for this team and some winning moments, then they should do it. God knows us out-of-stater fans aren't pumping any revenue into the Cardinals every Sunday. (Then again, a lot of the instate fans aren't either.)
Of course, rooting for the Giants, Jets or Eagles sound so drastically unappealing.
:If a name change does take place and nothing else does, I can hear the sports announcers now. "They have a new name, but they're still the same old Cardinals." "You can change the name, but you can't change the poor playing." "You can take the Cardinals out of the name, but you can't take the losing out of the Cardinals."
But, it is kinda pointless to debate all this now. After all, it is just another rumor.
BuckeyeCardinal
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Well Said Jersey Girl
They're gonna ditch the out of state fans because that will increase the numbers at home games?
What a pure PR genius!!!
They're gonna ditch the out of state fans because that will increase the numbers at home games?
What a pure PR genius!!!
Lex
troublemaker
I Do not believe people here hate the name Cardinals.
But it's not ours.
We still get called the St. Louis Cardinals on TV.
Stanford has it too.
So does Louisville.
Some fans here, want something other than what it's been, that's all.
But it's not ours.
We still get called the St. Louis Cardinals on TV.
Stanford has it too.
So does Louisville.
Some fans here, want something other than what it's been, that's all.
jon_nyaz
The art of music
Originally posted by Jersey Girl Cards Fan
As a fellow New Jerseyan, I completely agree, Rugby. It would really, really suck if I couldn't root for the Cardinals anymore, but if it meant getting a nice fan base in AZ for this team and some winning moments, then they should do it. God knows us out-of-stater fans aren't pumping any revenue into the Cardinals every Sunday. (Then again, a lot of the instate fans aren't either.)
Of course, rooting for the Giants, Jets or Eagles sound so drastically unappealing.
If a name change does take place and nothing else does, I can hear the sports announcers now. "They have a new name, but they're still the same old Cardinals." "You can change the name, but you can't change the poor playing." "You can take the Cardinals out of the name, but you can't take the losing out of the Cardinals."
But, it is kinda pointless to debate all this now. After all, it is just another rumor.
Thanks for taking a rational, unselfish stance on this issue Jersey Girl - - though it may only be a rumor. A true fan wants what's best for the team and you obviously stand for that. You should be applauded! The next time you want to come see a game at Sun Devil Stadium, let me know and I will provide you great seats (at least as great as can be expected) at no expense to you.
BuckeyeCardinal
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Yeah
They love the Cards name in Arizona.
They really care about tradition there.
That's why the opposing team has more fans at the game than the Cards.
They love the Cards name in Arizona.
They really care about tradition there.
That's why the opposing team has more fans at the game than the Cards.
denverbirdfan
thanks for flying
i like the fact that a handshake was depended on to make the phx stadium deal. it comes from a man's word is his bond thinking. stick with the name. if people don't feel as if this team "belongs to them" or they can't "identify" with it - tough sh*t. nobody said being a cardinal fan was easy fellas.
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