Name change rumor?

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jon_nyaz

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Oh God Tango. Are you really that pompous and yet ignorant? Good grief...

Anyway, I will ignore all the self-gratifying drivel and only respond to the actual content you posted.

The present day revenue stream for NFL teams is comprised of television rights, luxury boxes, ticket sales, concessions, parking, stadium advertising and merchandise. All the teams get the same revenue from TV. In this fashion, the Cardinals are on LEVEL ground with all the other teams. Aside from from TV, all teams specifically DO NOT get the same revenue. NFL teams play two pre-season games and eight regular season games in their home stadium. They share the ticket revenue with the visiting team. They keep the luxury box premiums, concessions, parking, merchandise and stadium advertising revenue to themselves.

So you in all your divine wisdom are telling me that sitting at home on a store-bought couch instead of a stadium-bought seat, eating a store-bought hot dog, instead of a stadium-bought hot dog, reading a store-bought newspaper instead of a stadium-bought program, drinking a store-bought beer instead of a stadium-bought beer, with your car parked in the driveway instead of at the stadium, are bringing just as much revenue to the team as the people that live here and go to the games? I know you are allergic to admitting that you're wrong, but if you were right in your all-knowing assumption, then why do they even sell seats to the games? Why doesn't the league just tell us all to stay home on Sunday and watch on TV? Why do they blackout the games here locally when the team doesn't sell out?

Sorry Tango, but there is a difference in contribution between a long-distance fan and a local fan. The difference is huge and it's one of the big reasons why other teams generate more revenue and therefore have more cash available to sign better players - - hence win more games.
 
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Cardinals.Ken

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I haven't been keeping up with this whole thread. Are you native to the Valley Jon?
 

Fiasco

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Originally posted by jon_nyaz
Another out of stater using big words like "********". I understand your point Fiasco, but all you had to do was say that you aren't from Arizona and I would have been able to write your post for you. Section 11 said it best when he suggested that when you long distance fans start filling up Sun Devil Stadium on a blistering hot September afternoon to root for "The Cardinals", then you'll understand where we're coming from.

Here's another big word for you. Kiss my ass.

Just because I'm out of state does not mean I do not attend football games. Just because I am in St. Louis does not mean I wouldn't buy season tickets. My wife and myself talked about purchasing season tickets this year but Sun Devil is just to much of an uncomfortable **** hole. We are hoping to secure season tickets for the opening season in the new stadium in 2006.

My being or not being from Arizona doesn't have a damn thing to do with it and I don't need some self righteous prick telling me that somehow I am less worthy of a fan because of my geography.

What if they started winning more consistently and THEN they decided to change their name (for whatever reason). Would you feel differently?[/qoute]

If they kept the name and started winning the stands would be full. The Cardinals name is not why the stadium is empty. 1) The cardinals have been a bad team. 2) SDS is garbage can

T
 

Tangodnzr

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DOH....err John. I'm not the one trying to create the distinction between in-state/out of state fans. I was merely pointing out that ALL FANS contribute to the revenue stream. Beating that horse seems to be your and sect 11's game.

Read my lips....as I said, and you chose to ignore.....ALL fans contribute time and money. Get off it.
 

Wild Card

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Re: Re: Re: Not The Point

Originally posted by jon_nyaz
There are so many reasons why changing the team identity makes sense. The two biggest reasons not to do it are alienating the out-of-state fans and the potential cost of the switch itself. However if done right, an identity change would help create loyalty amongst the locals. If combined with the new stadium and a couple of playoff seasons, we'd have a terrific platform to turn around the minds and hearts of everyone in Arizona!

Jon:

I don't disagree with the virtues of rebranding a relocated team (e.g., Winnipeg Jets to Phoenix Coyotes), but don't you think, in the Cardinals' case, that train's already left the station?

The time to reinvent this team, it seems to me, would've been when they first moved to Arizona (e.g., Cleveland Browns to Baltimore Ravens) or shortly thereafter (Tennessee Oilers to Tennessee Titans). After 15 years, I think it'd be hard to sell Bidwill's boys to Arizonans as anything but the Cardinals. Even assuming the family were willing to consider a name change, which it seems clear they're not.

What they--or Michael, at least--have said they will consider is changing the uniforms and logo. And I think that's not without merit. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Denver Broncos are two recent examples of teams whose first NFL championships were with completely redesigned logos and unis, and who discarded varying histories of failure and frustration with their old uniforms.

I think we can reasonably expect a different-looking Cardinals team to take the field in Glendale in 2006. It'd be nice if they played better, too.

WC
 

jon_nyaz

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Originally posted by Cardinals.Ken
I haven't been keeping up with this whole thread. Are you native to the Valley Jon?

Depends on your definition of "native". I moved here in 1992 which for most folks who live here now, is a long time ago. So no, I'm not native in the purest sense.
 

jon_nyaz

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Originally posted by Fiasco
Here's another big word for you. Kiss my ass.

Just because I'm out of state does not mean I do not attend football games. Just because I am in St. Louis does not mean I wouldn't buy season tickets. My wife and myself talked about purchasing season tickets this year but Sun Devil is just to much of an uncomfortable **** hole. We are hoping to secure season tickets for the opening season in the new stadium in 2006.

My being or not being from Arizona doesn't have a damn thing to do with it and I don't need some self righteous prick telling me that somehow I am less worthy of a fan because of my geography.

What if they started winning more consistently and THEN they decided to change their name (for whatever reason). Would you feel differently?[/qoute]

If they kept the name and started winning the stands would be full. The Cardinals name is not why the stadium is empty. 1) The cardinals have been a bad team. 2) SDS is garbage can

T

Fiasco, Tango, et al:

Am I creating a distinction between local fans and long-distance fans? Yes. But don't take it personally and start calling me names like self-righteous prick, etc., etc. And no, I will not kiss your ass either! :D

For goodness sakes, all I am trying to get through to you folks who live and die for The Cardinals from another state is that we need more IN STATE fans who undoubtedly, unarguably, without question contribute more to the success of the team. It doesn't make you less of a person that you don't live here for crying out loud. And it is my belief that by changing the identity of the team, coinciding that with the new stadium opening and making some important changes in the way the team is managed the team would experience a REALLY BIG improvement in the way local folks perceive the team; and therefore a significant improvement in game attendance and local fan loyalty as well.

You guys don't agree with me? Fine. We agree to disagree. All I am asking is why you believe that I'm wrong. And it's not because I am a marketing person, or because I am a fairweather fan, or because I suck, or because I am bitter, or because I am a self-righteous prick or because I am lame, or because I am a pathetic ******** artist. Give me one solid, well-thought-out reason that doesn't include emotional personal attacks why my scenario wouldn't work. I have yet to see it.
 

jon_nyaz

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Not The Point

Originally posted by Wild Card
Jon:

I don't disagree with the virtues of rebranding a relocated team (e.g., Winnipeg Jets to Phoenix Coyotes), but don't you think, in the Cardinals' case, that train's already left the station?

The time to reinvent this team, it seems to me, would've been when they first moved to Arizona (e.g., Cleveland Browns to Baltimore Ravens) or shortly thereafter (Tennessee Oilers to Tennessee Titans). After 15 years, I think it'd be hard to sell Bidwill's boys to Arizonans as anything but the Cardinals. Even assuming the family were willing to consider a name change, which it seems clear they're not.

What they--or Michael, at least--have said they will consider is changing the uniforms and logo. And I think that's not without merit. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Denver Broncos are two recent examples of teams whose first NFL championships were with completely redesigned logos and unis, and who discarded varying histories of failure and frustration with their old uniforms.

I think we can reasonably expect a different-looking Cardinals team to take the field in Glendale in 2006. It'd be nice if they played better, too.

WC

WC,

You raise a reasonable question about the train leaving the station. I think if there was no new stadium on the horizon and no move to Glendale and there wasn't such a massive migration of new residents moving to the west side of Maricopa County every year, then yes, you'd be absolutely right.

But keeping in mind the fact that the Cardinals have spent their 15 years here on the East side, there is an opportunity to endear themselves anew to the west-siders with a new identity and the new stadium. So I think they have the unique opportunity to see the train come through the station one more time.

Now as a compromise, if the team decides to keep the Cardinals moniker in the name of tradition and yet make significant changes to the logo, uniforms and look & feel of the team's identity, then that is certainly a wiser move then doing nothing IMO. However, if they do choose to do that, I think they ought to involve the fans and make the ultimate choice a democratic process.
 

Wild Card

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not The Point

Originally posted by jon_nyaz
... if the team decides to keep the Cardinals moniker in the name of tradition and yet make significant changes to the logo, uniforms and look & feel of the team's identity, then that is certainly a wiser move then doing nothing IMO. However, if they do choose to do that, I think they ought to involve the fans and make the ultimate choice a democratic process.

Jon:

Agreed. I seem to remember, a number of years ago, when the New England Patriots were considering replacing their original "minuteman" logo, they displayed the original and updated logos side-by-side during a game for an "applause vote." It was clear, even to a TV viewer, that the new logo was more enthusiastically received.

Today, of course, more high-tech solutions are available. The Seattle Seahawks had fans vote on the helmet colors of their new uniforms on-line, and went with the fans' decision.

It might be the best of both worlds. Long-term, out-of-state fans could still root for "the Cardinals," just like they always have, while Arizona fans could see a Cards team on the field that no longer resembles--visually, at least--the team that left St. Louis 15 years ago. And they can all have a voice in the way that team looks, via the Internet. Win-win.

Now, if the Cards can just start winning some games... ;)

WC
 

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I voted "don't care" on this. I really don't. It wouldn't affect me one way or the other.

This franchise has problems far deeper than any "marketing" can fix. Emmitt Smith sold virtually no additional season tickets at all. And for heaven's sake, last week they were basically selling "sit anywhere you like" tickets for $15 and still only announced 24,000 (was that the turnstile count?). That just amazes me. Was it a limited quantity of tickets? Restricted somehow? Did this have any impact on the gate, at all?

Lombardi clairified his "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" speech to say that he meant that the effort toward winning is what's important. I'd attend a few games each year if I saw any effort at all.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Not The Point

Originally posted by Wild Card

What they--or Michael, at least--have said they will consider is changing the uniforms and logo. And I think that's not without merit. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Denver Broncos are two recent examples of teams whose first NFL championships were with completely redesigned logos and unis, and who discarded varying histories of failure and frustration with their old uniforms.

I think we can reasonably expect a different-looking Cardinals team to take the field in Glendale in 2006. It'd be nice if they played better, too.

WC

I would like to inject a few comments here, in regard to this.
First of all, the changes the Broncos and Bucs both made, as you stated, were only "cosmetic" changes in uniforms and logo....not team name changes.
Secondly, I would venture to say John Elway and Mike Shanahan, were probably bigger reaons for championships in Denver, and Tony Dungy, Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, and John Gruden were probably bigger reasons in Tampa.

I started thumbing through my old Sporting News football annual issues in regard to Tampa...and stumbled across what to me were some interesting comments through the years, starting in 1995.

Bear with me here, even though this will be a little long:
1994 - record 6-10
1995 - Head coach=Sam Wyche
"During the off-season, the Bucs were sold for a pro franchise record $192 million. to Palm Beach, Fla., financier Malcolm Glazer, who promptly reduced ticket prices and opened the vault. The Bucs signed wide reciever Alvin Harper and several less glamorous free agents.
But the team's off-season moves were geared as much with an eye toward the future, when the Bucs shipped starting QB Craig Erickson to the Colts for a 1996 1st round pick. The deal opened the door for untested Trent Dilfer to take control of the offense this year."

They also had 2 first round draft picks that year:
"The first round selections of Miami defensive tackle Warren Sapp and Florida St. linebacker Derrick Brooks had General Manager Rich McKay's hand prints all over them."
...ending record = 7-9

(added from '96 issue) - "Sapp didn't exactly tear up the league as a rookie and often was frustrated by double-team blocking and the elaborate holding tricks employed by veteran linemen. The coaching staff expects him to improve"


1996 - Head Coach Tony Dungy
"When GM Rich McKay opened the search to replace the fired Sam Wyche last January, he originally set his sights on coaching heavyweights Jimmy Johnson and Steve Spurrier. But Johnson took the Dolphin's job after Don Schula retired and Spurrier opted to remain at the U. of Fla.
Where Johnson or Spurrier would have cast large shadows at One Buccaneer Place and likely turned things upside down, Dungy's low-key approach has been a tonic to the turbulence surrounding the Bucs. He realizes the challenge of trying to snap a string of 13 consectutive losing seasons while keeping the players focused between the lines and away from the off-field political maneuvering for a new stadium.
Under the guidance of McKay and Dungy, the Bucs re-signed several key free agents and upgraded the roster through a strong draft..."
...ending record 6-10


1997
In an otherwise quiet off-season, the Bucs did away with a much aligned veteran.
Cut loose was Bucco Bruce, the winking pirate whose knife-in-teeth visage served the team's logo since the club's inception in 1976. "He looked whimpy," QB Trent Dilfer said. "It grew tiresome".
Dilfer also used the word silly to describe the Buc's logo - a word that could be used to describe more than the team's appearance. While wearing their orange and white uniforms and helmets featuring Bucco Bruce, the Bucs have looked silly on the field for most of their existance. This team has suffered double digit losses in 13 of the past 14 seasons and is coming off a 6-10 performance.
But owner Malcolm Glazer, has promised to bury the past. A new stadium, scheduled to open in 1998, is being built a few hundred yards south of Houlihan's Stadium, and the team has new uniforms that don't look anything like the old ones.
Bucco Bruce has given way to a tattered flag with a skull and crossed swords, and the new colors are red, black, and pewter. The new look is meaner, and that's fine with the Bucs.
The change may be superficial, but the Bucs are billing it as one more sign that the tide is turning.
Combining the new look with a strong finish in 1996 and a draft that should boost the offense, the Bucs have hopes of righting a wayward ship. "We're going to sneak up on a lot of people," Hardy Nickerson said.
Despite a nearly disastrous 1-8 start in 1996, Tony Dungy never flinched. The first year coach stuck with his system and it paid dividends as the Bucs went 5-2 down the stretch. Although he has a low key personality, Dungy won the respect of his team and that should translate into continued improvement.
Dungy is big on having players with good character. His philosophy was obvious in the draft. Dungy also got rid of a few of Sam Wyche's left-overs who carried off-field baggage.
Offensive Coordinator Mike Shula was extremely conservative in his play-calling last year, but a lot of that had to do wit a loack of weapons. The draft brought speed to Shula's unit, and that should help as Tampa Bay tries to mold Dilfer into its franchise QB.
...Tackle Warren Sapp had moments last season when he was a dominant player....
....and Derrick Brooks could be an emerging star on the outside."

..ending record 10-6


1998
Last season's 10-6 record marked the team's winning season since 1982. And it was the Buc's first playoff appearance since '81. Tampa Bay sent a league-high 8 players to the Pro Bowl.
...Dungy and GM Rich McKay have assembled a talented roster and locked up most of the team's nucleus wit long-term contracts...Pro Bowlers Warren Sapp, John Lynch, Trent Dilfer, and Derrick Brooks have signed contract extensions within the last year. So did several other key contributers....and so did Dungy and McKay.
"You can win for a longer time developing your guys, getting a sense of family and trying to keep everybody together," Dungy said.
That one big happy family will be moving to a new stadium this year. . . By coninuing to look to the future,the Bucs finally have buried their dismal past.

ending record 8-8


1999
In the often shameful history of the Tampa Bay Bucaneers, QBs have been like some of the world's greatest artists: Their talents aren't realized until long after they are gone.
Dough Williams, Steve Young, Vinny Testaverde, and Chris Chandler each went on to bigger and better things after exiting Tampa Bay. Could Trent Dilfer be next?
Hope is one thing,but reality is another. After leading the team to a 10-6 mark and a playoff berth in 97, Dilfer took a step back in '98 as the passing game and offense suffered mightily. Dilfer was hit with much of the blame for a season gone awry...
That may be why the Bucs spent the off-season preparing for the worst. The team traded for Eric Zeier and drafted Tulane's Shawn King in the 2nd round, providing Dilfer with the closest thing to legitimate competition he has seen in years.

...ending record 11-5


The Buc's defense was good last season. Good enough to carry the team to the NFC Central division title..... Good enough to come close, but not good enough to make the Super Bowl.
Tampa Bay's offense was as weak as the team's 3rd ranked defense was strong. The unit ranked 15th in rushing, 30th in passing, 27th in scoring and 31st in red zone efficiency. It's no wonder the team was dependent on its defense, especially after Shaun King took over at QB.
The Bucs changed offensive co-ordinators, replacing Mike Shula wit Les Steckel and they added 3 pro bowl players in center Jeff Christy, LG Randall McDaniel,a nd receiver Keyshawn Johnson. ..
If Dungy has a fault, it is that he tends to be a little stubborn and perhaps too loyal. After ignoring subtle suggestions from team executives, Dungy had to be shown film of how Shula's predictable offense was hurting the team before he agreed to change coordinators.
Dungy has been urged to open up his offense a little bit, but that's simply not going to happen. Dungy doesn't like to rely too much on his QBs or throw deep. He prefers to run a conservative ball-control offense,and that's the style Steckel has been instructed to install.
Dungy places high expectations on players and is demanding. But those demands seldom are expressed with a raised voice. That and his honesty have earned him a great deal of respect.
,,,Led by All-Pro Warren Sapp, the NFC's defensive player of the year, the DL returns intact.
....Derrick Brooks has become a much smarter player. He's not over pursuing the way he once did, and he's recognizing offenses more quickly."

ending record 10-6
 

40yearfan

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not The Point

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
I would like to inject a few comments here, in regard to this.
First of all, the changes the Broncos and Bucs both made, as you stated, were only "cosmetic" changes in uniforms and logo....not team name changes.
Secondly, I would venture to say John Elway and Mike Shanahan, were probably bigger reaons for championships in Denver, and Tony Dungy, Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, and John Gruden were probably bigger reasons in Tampa.

I started thumbing through my old Sporting News football annual issues in regard to Tampa...and stumbled across what to me were some interesting comments through the years, starting in 1995.

Bear with me here, even though this will be a little long:
1994 - record 6-10
1995 - Head coach=Sam Wyche
"During the off-season, the Bucs were sold for a pro franchise record $192 million. to Palm Beach, Fla., financier Malcolm Glazer, who promptly reduced ticket prices and opened the vault. The Bucs signed wide reciever Alvin Harper and several less glamorous free agents.
But the team's off-season moves were geared as much with an eye toward the future, when the Bucs shipped starting QB Craig Erickson to the Colts for a 1996 1st round pick. The deal opened the door for untested Trent Dilfer to take control of the offense this year."

They also had 2 first round draft picks that year:
"The first round selections of Miami defensive tackle Warren Sapp and Florida St. linebacker Derrick Brooks had General Manager Rich McKay's hand prints all over them."
...ending record = 7-9

(added from '96 issue) - "Sapp didn't exactly tear up the league as a rookie and often was frustrated by double-team blocking and the elaborate holding tricks employed by veteran linemen. The coaching staff expects him to improve"


1996 - Head Coach Tony Dungy
"When GM Rich McKay opened the search to replace the fired Sam Wyche last January, he originally set his sights on coaching heavyweights Jimmy Johnson and Steve Spurrier. But Johnson took the Dolphin's job after Don Schula retired and Spurrier opted to remain at the U. of Fla.
Where Johnson or Spurrier would have cast large shadows at One Buccaneer Place and likely turned things upside down, Dungy's low-key approach has been a tonic to the turbulence surrounding the Bucs. He realizes the challenge of trying to snap a string of 13 consectutive losing seasons while keeping the players focused between the lines and away from the off-field political maneuvering for a new stadium.
Under the guidance of McKay and Dungy, the Bucs re-signed several key free agents and upgraded the roster through a strong draft..."
...ending record 6-10


1997
In an otherwise quiet off-season, the Bucs did away with a much aligned veteran.
Cut loose was Bucco Bruce, the winking pirate whose knife-in-teeth visage served the team's logo since the club's inception in 1976. "He looked whimpy," QB Trent Dilfer said. "It grew tiresome".
Dilfer also used the word silly to describe the Buc's logo - a word that could be used to describe more than the team's appearance. While wearing their orange and white uniforms and helmets featuring Bucco Bruce, the Bucs have looked silly on the field for most of their existance. This team has suffered double digit losses in 13 of the past 14 seasons and is coming off a 6-10 performance.
But owner Malcolm Glazer, has promised to bury the past. A new stadium, scheduled to open in 1998, is being built a few hundred yards south of Houlihan's Stadium, and the team has new uniforms that don't look anything like the old ones.
Bucco Bruce has given way to a tattered flag with a skull and crossed swords, and the new colors are red, black, and pewter. The new look is meaner, and that's fine with the Bucs.
The change may be superficial, but the Bucs are billing it as one more sign that the tide is turning.
Combining the new look with a strong finish in 1996 and a draft that should boost the offense, the Bucs have hopes of righting a wayward ship. "We're going to sneak up on a lot of people," Hardy Nickerson said.
Despite a nearly disastrous 1-8 start in 1996, Tony Dungy never flinched. The first year coach stuck with his system and it paid dividends as the Bucs went 5-2 down the stretch. Although he has a low key personality, Dungy won the respect of his team and that should translate into continued improvement.
Dungy is big on having players with good character. His philosophy was obvious in the draft. Dungy also got rid of a few of Sam Wyche's left-overs who carried off-field baggage.
Offensive Coordinator Mike Shula was extremely conservative in his play-calling last year, but a lot of that had to do wit a loack of weapons. The draft brought speed to Shula's unit, and that should help as Tampa Bay tries to mold Dilfer into its franchise QB.
...Tackle Warren Sapp had moments last season when he was a dominant player....
....and Derrick Brooks could be an emerging star on the outside."

..ending record 10-6


1998
Last season's 10-6 record marked the team's winning season since 1982. And it was the Buc's first playoff appearance since '81. Tampa Bay sent a league-high 8 players to the Pro Bowl.
...Dungy and GM Rich McKay have assembled a talented roster and locked up most of the team's nucleus wit long-term contracts...Pro Bowlers Warren Sapp, John Lynch, Trent Dilfer, and Derrick Brooks have signed contract extensions within the last year. So did several other key contributers....and so did Dungy and McKay.
"You can win for a longer time developing your guys, getting a sense of family and trying to keep everybody together," Dungy said.
That one big happy family will be moving to a new stadium this year. . . By coninuing to look to the future,the Bucs finally have buried their dismal past.

ending record 8-8


1999
In the often shameful history of the Tampa Bay Bucaneers, QBs have been like some of the world's greatest artists: Their talents aren't realized until long after they are gone.
Dough Williams, Steve Young, Vinny Testaverde, and Chris Chandler each went on to bigger and better things after exiting Tampa Bay. Could Trent Dilfer be next?
Hope is one thing,but reality is another. After leading the team to a 10-6 mark and a playoff berth in 97, Dilfer took a step back in '98 as the passing game and offense suffered mightily. Dilfer was hit with much of the blame for a season gone awry...
That may be why the Bucs spent the off-season preparing for the worst. The team traded for Eric Zeier and drafted Tulane's Shawn King in the 2nd round, providing Dilfer with the closest thing to legitimate competition he has seen in years.

...ending record 11-5


The Buc's defense was good last season. Good enough to carry the team to the NFC Central division title..... Good enough to come close, but not good enough to make the Super Bowl.
Tampa Bay's offense was as weak as the team's 3rd ranked defense was strong. The unit ranked 15th in rushing, 30th in passing, 27th in scoring and 31st in red zone efficiency. It's no wonder the team was dependent on its defense, especially after Shaun King took over at QB.
The Bucs changed offensive co-ordinators, replacing Mike Shula wit Les Steckel and they added 3 pro bowl players in center Jeff Christy, LG Randall McDaniel,a nd receiver Keyshawn Johnson. ..
If Dungy has a fault, it is that he tends to be a little stubborn and perhaps too loyal. After ignoring subtle suggestions from team executives, Dungy had to be shown film of how Shula's predictable offense was hurting the team before he agreed to change coordinators.
Dungy has been urged to open up his offense a little bit, but that's simply not going to happen. Dungy doesn't like to rely too much on his QBs or throw deep. He prefers to run a conservative ball-control offense,and that's the style Steckel has been instructed to install.
Dungy places high expectations on players and is demanding. But those demands seldom are expressed with a raised voice. That and his honesty have earned him a great deal of respect.
,,,Led by All-Pro Warren Sapp, the NFC's defensive player of the year, the DL returns intact.
....Derrick Brooks has become a much smarter player. He's not over pursuing the way he once did, and he's recognizing offenses more quickly."

ending record 10-6

Good post Tango. Am I mistaken, or does it seem the Graves plan is trying to emulate Tampa Bays' rise to stardom?
 

Tangodnzr

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2001
"All that talk of the Buccaneers making it to the Super Bowl last year wasn't wrong. It just was premature....
With the addition of Brad Johnson and Simeon Rice the team has 12 Pro Bowl players. And some of them are hungry....
The rumor mill says Tony Dungy's job is on the line and that he can't afford to let his team fall short of the Super Bowl again. Common sense says the rumor mill is wrong.
Dungy's soft spoken manner and the professional way in which he makes his players accountable is a large part of what has drawn the likes of Rice, Brad Johnson, Keyshawn Johnson, Randall McDaniel and Jeff Christy to the team. And Dungy's diligence in teaching and honing fundamentals is a big reason the Bucs are one of the league's upper-echelon teams."

...ending record 10-6.


2002
You laughed. Of course, you laughed. Shoot, didn't just about everybody in football, including some inside One Buc Place, laugh as the sons of Bucs owner Malcom Glazer tried toconduct a coaching search after firing Tony Dungy and being jilted by Bill Parcells?
But look who's laughing now. The Glazer boys, Joel, Bryan, and Ed, went from laughingstocks toswindlers in the eyes of many when they pulled off the deal that extracted Jon Gruden from the Raiders...
The one thing that remains from the Dungy era is a defense that is among the league's best. All Gruden needs to do is push the offense into the mainstream--and the talent is there to do that.
Gruden is the anti-Dungy. He is very offensive minded--so much so that he has all but left the defense to coordinator Monte Kiffen and asst. head coach/DL coach Rod Marinelli, holdovers from Dungy's staff."
(both have been with the team 7 years. )

...ending record 12 -4 Super Bowl Champions at last!

Am I the only one who sees a lot of parallels here? It took Dungy 6 years...plus the year under Gruden for this team to change from jokes to champs.

Warren Sapp recently said "Tony Dungy was the one who changed this organization. He turned this place from a disorganized mess and a joke where no one wanted to come to one where good players wanted to come. He cleaned up the kitchen, and showed everyone how to bake the cake. John Greden came in and simply put the icing on the cake."

Did the uniform changes along the way help? Maybe, but I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see that it was a good coach, and managemnt, with a plan and determination to stick to that plan that resulted in Tampa's improvement.

The Cards are NOT saddled with the "whimpy" appearance that the Bucs once had. Denvers "new look" didn't win those ball games....a QB by the name of Elway had a lot to do with that.

Sapp and Brooks respected Dungy, and stayed in Tampa...those 2 first round draft choices in "95 could arguably be said to have become the cornerstone of the "new Bucs"...under Dungy's tutelage. It took 7 years, and didn't coincide with either the uniform changes OR moving into the new stadium.
 

Skkorpion

Grey haired old Bird
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Again, the name change issue is bogus. Always was and will be as long as the Bidwill family owns the team.

Every time this non-issue is raised, locals and absentees duke it out. Enough, please.

Let's move on.
 
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