Nets @ Suns 11-15-13

[AfroSuns]

Wow, what happened with the Suns.

 

[82CardsGrad]

We might be seeing the early stages of the Suns crash back down to reality.. It was bound to happen at some point...


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[Mainstreet]

The Suns are being dominated by Nets. They cannot get any scoring inside. They look intimated by the Nets height. Plus the Nets are out hustling them.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I know most disagreed when I said this two weeks ago but Miles Plumlee is simply too small to play center for us every night. Maybe if we paired him with a bruiser or another guy with Garnett like reach but as our big guy he's just not big enough. He needs wider hips or longer arms to hold down the fort alone out there nightly.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I know most disagreed when I said this two weeks ago but Miles Plumlee is simply too small to play center for us every night. Maybe if we paired him with a bruiser or another guy with Garnett like reach but as our big guy he's just not big enough. He needs wider hips or longer arms to hold down the fort alone out there nightly.

Steve

It doesn't help Markieff has gone missing. I don't think any Sun can guard Lopez. However, Livingston has quietly destroyed the Suns.

 

[BC867]

And 4th quarter Bledsoe wasn't . . . in the 4th quarter or OT. We saw it coming. NBA defenses adjust.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I know most disagreed when I said this two weeks ago but Miles Plumlee is simply too small to play center for us every night. Maybe if we paired him with a bruiser or another guy with Garnett like reach but as our big guy he's just not big enough. He needs wider hips or longer arms to hold down the fort alone out there nightly.

Steve

Agree... Love his athleticism, but he's too small to be a true NBA center...
Tough, tough loss tonight... Joe Johnson of all people...


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[AzStevenCal]

And 4th quarter Bledsoe wasn't . . . in the 4th quarter or OT. We saw it coming. NBA defenses adjust.

We lost in OT to a team that is one of the favorites in the East. They haven't started well but they are a bad matchup for us, just too much size. I think Brooklyn is overrated (compared to expectations) but they should still finish the season with home court advantage.

I'm not at all concerned about this loss. We'll have a lot more just like it. We're still a very young team, 9 games doesn't change that fact. And young teams typically lose close games (our 4 losses are by a grand total of 12 points). Our undersized backcourt is going to be a problem for us but never more so than against a backcourt like we faced tonight. Right now, we're undersized at pretty much every position.

I love Dragic and Bledsoe but if I were management I'd be looking to move one or the other. They are too similar in both strengths and weaknesses. I guess, despite how much I think of Eric, he'd be the one I'd trade. He'll bring more in return and Dragic is locked up on a very reasonable contract. If we're not keeping them both though I hope we move one or the other as soon as possible.

Steve

 

[82CardsGrad]

We lost in OT to a team that is one of the favorites in the East. They haven't started well but they are a bad matchup for us, just too much size. I think Brooklyn is overrated (compared to expectations) but they should still finish the season with home court advantage.

I'm not at all concerned about this loss. We'll have a lot more just like it. We're still a very young team, 9 games doesn't change that fact. And young teams typically lose close games (our 4 losses are by a grand total of 12 points). Our undersized backcourt is going to be a problem for us but never more so than against a backcourt like we faced tonight. Right now, we're undersized at pretty much every position.

I love Dragic and Bledsoe but if I were management I'd be looking to move one or the other. They are too similar in both strengths and weaknesses. I guess, despite how much I think of Eric, he'd be the one I'd trade. He'll bring more in return and Dragic is locked up on a very reasonable contract. If we're not keeping them both though I hope we move one or the other as soon as possible.

Steve

Agree... And we'll need to deal with the forward position as well...


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[AzStevenCal]

Agree... And we'll need to deal with the forward position as well...

Here's hoping that Len gets healthy and becomes the player we all hope he'll become because that lets us move Plumlee to the 4 and all of a sudden we're not that small anymore. We'd still be undersized at the 1,2 and 3 spots but it would be a lot more survivable if our bigs were actually bigs.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

Here's hoping that Len gets healthy and becomes the player we all hope he'll become because that lets us move Plumlee to the 4 and all of a sudden we're not that small anymore. We'd still be undersized at the 1,2 and 3 spots but it would be a lot more survivable if our bigs were actually bigs.

Steve

I do not think Plumlee is too small to play center.

Bledsoe seemed to be out of it for a while after he took thaw elbow to the eye.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I do not think Plumlee is too small to play center.

You missed the game tonight huh?


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[JCSunsfan]

You missed the game tonight huh?


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No. I saw it. Lopez would be shooting those hooks over almost anyone in the league. Plumlee is still learning.

Interesting off-camera conversation From the Internet feed i was watching. Chambers was talking about how bad Channing Frye looks. He said he's looking worse now that he did in training camp.

 

[82CardsGrad]

No. I saw it. Lopez would be shooting those hooks over almost anyone in the league. Plumlee is still learning.

Interesting off-camera conversation From the Internet feed i was watching. Chambers was talking about how bad Channing Frye looks. He said he's looking worse now that he did in training camp.

Plumlee was no match, physically, against Lopez. He is undersized and even though he's got tremendous athleticism, his size will always be an issue at the center position. He would be a dominant #4 however...
And yes, Frye is a serious problem. He is of no value to this team... None.


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[AzStevenCal]

I do not think Plumlee is too small to play center.

Bledsoe seemed to be out of it for a while after he took thaw elbow to the eye.

We'll see. I suspect before the year is out there will be a lot of fans saying the same thing as I am. If he were paired next to a good sized power forward I'd perhaps see it differently but he's all we have for muscle down low. He routinely sees a couple of guys a night that are bigger than him.

Steve

 

[Folster]

I'm not worried about Plumlee being able to play center. You guys act like it's the 90's and we're facing Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, and O'Neal on a nightly basis. He has Hibbert, Howard, and the Lopez sisters as his stiffest competition.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'm not worried about Plumlee's size but I am a bit worried about his skills to play starting C in the NBA.

He's been dropping a lot of passes lately and missed a lot of easy layups/dunks right at the rim. The guards have to be frustrated when they drive and draw all the attention and dish it to the big guy but he blows the easy finish.

He has completely lost the soft touch that he had around the rim.

I think we are starting to see the Miles Plumlee that Mike Krzyzewski and the Pacers saw. Instead of building off the positive start he had to the season, he is reverting back to his old ways.

Honestly though, I blame the stupid nickname "Plumdawg" for his lackluster play

 

[SirStefan32]

If he were paired next to a good sized power forward I'd perhaps see it differently but he's all we have for muscle down low. He routinely sees a couple of guys a night that are bigger than him.

Steve

Yeah, I think I'd agree with that. While Plumlee is smaller than the really big Centers (Lopez, Howard, Hibbert), I don't think his size is the issue. It's the fact that he is the only 4/5 with any muscle. Frye and Morris might as well be shooting guards. When you keep getting beat up the entire game night after night, it starts getting to you eventually.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Lopez just flat out played well. Those hook shots out to about 10 feet are nearly unguardable. When a player starts doing that in the low post he usually commands a double team. But the Suns left him in single man defense.

 

[JS22]

I'm not worried about Plumlee being able to play center. You guys act like it's the 90's and we're facing Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, and O'Neal on a nightly basis. He has Hibbert, Howard, and the Lopez sisters as his stiffest competition.

Just about spit my coffee out of my nose.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not worried about Plumlee being able to play center. You guys act like it's the 90's and we're facing Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, and O'Neal on a nightly basis. He has Hibbert, Howard, and the Lopez sisters as his stiffest competition.

This isn't the golden age of centers but it's not 2009 either. It is very much an improving position. Besides, I'm not talking about skill, I'm talking height, length, reach and girth. Our power positions look like kids out there compared to the opponents and the one talented guy we have is getting abused with no help. If he had 5 few more inches of reach or if he had the hips and butt of a Wes Unseld he could get by with being on the short side for centers. But he doesn't and to make matters worse, he's not paired with even a mirage of a power player.

Despite the fact he's a shot blocker, guards drive the key easily and without fear. He's solid but he's not "center" solid, he takes up very little room down there. Big men take turns beating on him and it seems to wear him down. This isn't just about him. It's about the power positions. If he were Andrew Bogut's size, we could survive with a finesse power forward. If he had the frame and length of Anthony Davis, he might be able to thrive with no one next to him. If he were paired with a power forward such as Nene, he'd probably be fine. But that's not the case, he's having to be it all and do it all down there and he lacks the size to do that IMO.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Lopez just flat out played well. Those hook shots out to about 10 feet are nearly unguardable. When a player starts doing that in the low post he usually commands a double team. But the Suns left him in single man defense.

I'm not blaming Plumlee for the loss, I'm just talking about what I consider to be the fatal flaw with our lineup. Hopefully, Len gets healthy and makes it moot.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

This isn't the golden age of centers but it's not 2009 either. It is very much an improving position. Besides, I'm not talking about skill, I'm talking height, length, reach and girth. Our power positions look like kids out there compared to the opponents and the one talented guy we have is getting abused with no help. If he had 5 few more inches of reach or if he had the hips and butt of a Wes Unseld he could get by with being on the short side for centers. But he doesn't and to make matters worse, he's not paired with even a mirage of a power player.

Despite the fact he's a shot blocker, guards drive the key easily and without fear. He's solid but he's not "center" solid, he takes up very little room down there. Big men take turns beating on him and it seems to wear him down. This isn't just about him. It's about the power positions. If he were Andrew Bogut's size, we could survive with a finesse power forward. If he had the frame and length of Anthony Davis, he might be able to thrive with no one next to him. If he were paired with a power forward such as Nene, he'd probably be fine. But that's not the case, he's having to be it all and do it all down there and he lacks the size to do that IMO.

Steve

I can buy that Plumlee needs help upfront against the bigger centers, however, I am happy with him at the moment playing center. There are nights where he is going to get over-powered there. I think that's one of the reasons the Suns drafted Len. Lopez is always going to get his offensively.

My bigger concerns is Markieff returned to old ways and played soft inside. As you said earlier, Plumlee needs help inside. Markieff played timid when he faced a size disadvantage. Also Shaun Livingston was able to use his height against our guards and others to do damage. IMO, Livingston was the biggest thorn in the Suns side.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I can buy that Plumlee needs help upfront against the bigger centers, however, I am happy with him at the moment playing center. There are nights where he is going to get over-powered there. I think that's one of the reasons the Suns drafted Len. Lopez is always going to get his offensively.

My bigger concerns is Markieff returned to old ways and played soft inside. As you said earlier, Plumlee needs help inside. Markieff played timid when he faced a size disadvantage. Also Shaun Livingston was able to use his height against our guards and others to do damage. IMO, Livingston was the biggest thorn in the Suns side.

We had a height disadvantage in pretty much every matchup we had last night with the obvious exception of Frye versus Evans but Evans has the lower torso that Frye can only dream about. We have no space eaters and that's a real problem IMO. If Markieff really did have the flu it's likely he's not all the way back from it. I'll wait before I throw him into the fluke bin. Besides, for some reason, people seem to hold him accountable as a star while at the same time calling him trash (not aiming that at you necessarily). But what's up with that?

Steve

 

[Superbone]

Lopez just flat out played well. Those hook shots out to about 10 feet are nearly unguardable. When a player starts doing that in the low post he usually commands a double team. But the Suns left him in single man defense.

He never missed!