Nets @ Suns 11-15-13

[BC867]

We as fans on a sports board have the right to critique the Suns any day of the year. The weaknesses you guys have mentioned are true.

But also let's remember that last season we were the pits and were expected to be again this season. It is a stepping stone and, hopefully, the GM and Horny (who are new) are aware of our shortcomings -- both with manpower and performance -- and will use this season and off-season to become a legitimate playoff team in 2014-15.

Which is all we were hoping for just a few weeks ago.

 

[JustWinBaby]

I'm not blaming Plumlee for the loss, I'm just talking about what I consider to be the fatal flaw with our lineup. Hopefully, Len gets healthy and makes it moot.

Steve

Remember - Plumlee was a throw in and we were not supposed to compete while winning around 19 games. He is doing just fine, IMO.

 

[ProdigalSun]

We as fans on a sports board have the right to critique the Suns any day of the year. The weaknesses you guys have mentioned are true.

But also let's remember that last season we were the pits and were expected to be again this season. It is a stepping stone and, hopefully, the GM and Horny (who are new) are aware of our shortcomings -- both with manpower and performance -- and will use this season and off-season to become a legitimate playoff team in 2014-15.

Which is all we were hoping for just a few weeks ago.

Amen. I am just sitting back and enjoying watching this team play and grow together. It would be nice to see them surprise and make a playoff push but I certainly still don't expect it. The games have all been fun to watch so far which is way more than I could have hoped for at the end of last year

 

[AzStevenCal]

Remember - Plumlee was a throw in and we were not supposed to compete while winning around 19 games. He is doing just fine, IMO.

Are you kidding? The guy is doing great AFAIC. That isn't the issue. Take names out of this and look at our power positions compared to the other teams in the league. We have no one occupying space, the lane is wide open. And we have no one to take the pressure off of Plumlee. I think the guy is a flat out steal but there are big guys that can control the paint without another big on the court, Miles isn't one of those guys.

I'm not calling for him to be benched, I want to see him moved to the power forward spot or paired with a true power forward. Imagine him next to a Marc Gasol or an Asik or a Spencer Hawes or even a Charles Barkley.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not blaming Plumlee for the loss, I'm just talking about what I consider to be the fatal flaw with our lineup. Hopefully, Len gets healthy and makes it moot.

Steve

FWIW Lopez would have done the same thing to Gortat.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'll wait before I throw him into the fluke bin. Besides, for some reason, people seem to hold him accountable as a star while at the same time calling him trash (not aiming that at you necessarily). But what's up with that?

Steve

I'm not sure what's up with that other than different posters have different opinions. I don't have a fluke, trash and star bins as regular categories although Marshall, Brown and Beasley did drive me crazy and needed to go. I'm hoping the Suns will have a star bin in the not too distant future.

However, I would like Markieff to play with consistency and take the ball hard to the basket like he did in a stretch of games before the Nets game. IMO, the bigger the opponent the harder you take the ball to the basket even if it is rebuffed by opponents. Make a statement. It would have been nice to see him to see him try to dunk some balls or get fouled in the process.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not sure what's up with that other than different posters have different opinions. I don't have a fluke, trash and star bins as regular categories although Marshall, Brown and Beasley did drive me crazy and needed to go. I'm hoping the Suns will have a star bin in the not too distant future.

However, I would like Markieff to play with consistency and take the ball hard to the basket like he did in a stretch of games before the Nets game. IMO, the bigger the opponent the harder you take the ball to the basket even if it is rebuffed by opponents. Make a statement. It would have been nice to see him to see him try to dunk some balls or get fouled in the process.

I agree and I'm hoping that his effort and performance were the result of his cold, not a further indication of his inconsistency.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

FWIW Lopez would have done the same thing to Gortat.

Probably but I also think that Gortat suffered from not having another legitimate power player on the court with him at the same time. Marcin is longer and that helps a bit but he also failed in the "space eater" category. If you're not going to go with a gimmicky offense you need someone that can take away the lane or at least clog it up a bit. Right now we are competitive in part because of our effort but that will wear you down and it's just not enough in the long term.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

Probably but I also think that Gortat suffered from not having another legitimate power player on the court with him at the same time. Marcin is longer and that helps a bit but he also failed in the "space eater" category. If you're not going to go with a gimmicky offense you need someone that can take away the lane or at least clog it up a bit. Right now we are competitive in part because of our effort but that will wear you down and it's just not enough in the long term.

Steve

Both are the same height (1/4 in difference). Gortat has a longer standing reach by a couple inches, Miles has a higher vert by a few inches, Miles has about 20 lbs on Gortat.

I am not sure the size thing makes that much difference between those two.

When a player is hitting 10 foot hook shots, its really hard to guard. Most NBA centers cannot do that with any type of consistency. If they are hot doing that, they have to be double teamed. Its hard to get up a hook shot when you are being guarded on two sides. For some reason we chose to let Miles go at him one on one. I assume it was because Horny had to much respect for the other players on the floor to leave anyone open.

When a guy is 6-11.75 and 260 lbs, it is hard to say he is too small.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Both are the same height (1/4 in difference). Gortat has a longer standing reach by a couple inches, Miles has a higher vert by a few inches, Miles has about 20 lbs on Gortat.

I am not sure the size thing makes that much difference between those two.

When a player is hitting 10 foot hook shots, its really hard to guard. Most NBA centers cannot do that with any type of consistency. If they are hot doing that, they have to be double teamed. Its hard to get up a hook shot when you are being guarded on two sides. For some reason we chose to let Miles go at him one on one. I assume it was because Horny had to much respect for the other players on the floor to leave anyone open.

When a guy is 6-11.75 and 260 lbs, it is hard to say he is too small.

You are contesting points I'm not making. I think we suffered from Gortat not being a space eater too. And Marcin has 4 and a half inches in his standing reach which, IMO, is a huge difference (also, Draftexpress shows a half inch difference in height). Again, IMO, it's better to be 6'11 with a standing reach of 7'4 than it is to be 7'0 with a standing reach of 7'0. But this isn't just about Miles and it isn't just about reach. It's a combination of issues not the least being who is playing next to him.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

You are contesting points I'm not making. I think we suffered from Gortat not being a space eater too. And Marcin has 4 and a half inches in his standing reach which, IMO, is a huge difference (also, Draftexpress shows a half inch difference in height). Again, IMO, it's better to be 6'11 with a standing reach of 7'4 than it is to be 7'0 with a standing reach of 7'0. But this isn't just about Miles and it isn't just about reach. It's a combination of issues not the least being who is playing next to him.

Steve

Drafted press show .25 difference in height but were picking nits here.

 

[Errntknght]

I suspect Hornacek is not having the players double team as a teaching strategy. As you know in defending post players the key thing is to not let them get the position they want and having to defend them alone probably helps the guys learn that - among other things. He said in a press conference a week or so ago that he was implementing a very basic defensive scheme to begin with but more to come later.

Incidentally, the Suns D is pretty good and its been improving fairly steadily. At present only the Pacers, Spurs and Bulls are defending better - and we're tied with the Warriors. Our opponents have been slightly better on offense than average - though some of our success might be due to them not expecting us to be an opponent worthy of their best effort. Miami, on the other hand is almost certainly getting opps best efforts so my guess is they are also better than us defensively though they lag us by 7% - their rating being dead average.

My current projection for our finish is the eighth/ninth seed in the West with Dallas, Denver, New Orleans and Memphis very close. OKC is also in that group now but I expect they will pull well away from the others.

 

[SirStefan32]

I wonder if Mitch McGary will slide down to Indiana's pick. He'd be a perfect addition down low. I think he might be that first big off the bench. He doesn't have the physical tools to be a star, but I think he'd make a perfect tough big man off the bench.