New and Improved 2008 Draft Prospects Thread

Irish

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Been looking at a number of draft projections now that the non lottery spots are determined with ATL making the PO's and a number of them have the Suns taking Marreese Speights.

Any thoughts?

Here's his DE profile http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marreese-Speights-1183/

This is a great year for project big men. I fear he's one of them

Florida only got into the NIT (lost to eventual winner Ohio State), so he was a bit under the radar for fans. The fact that the Draft Express profile is from January is indicative.
 

Russ Smith

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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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i'm a fan of speights, but i think he either needs another year, or a very good nba coaching staff that is dedicated to developing him. unfortunately i don't think the suns fall into that latter category. i see him as a raw al horford at present with more potential upside, but less dedication.
 

mjb21aztd

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Well I think the suns will be fine and hopefully come out strong in game two and get the win they understand we must take game two to make it a series, if we lose game two its more then likley over be hard to come back after being down two to 0a
 

Russ Smith

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Bunch more guys declared. Memphis has both Antonio Anderson and Robert Dozier in without agents. Both are 2nd rounders at best.

Kansas has Chalmers in with no agent.

And Texas has both DJ Augustin and AJ Abrams in with no agent, Augustin is projected in the lottery.
 

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I think we could get either a really good PG or a project big man who could learn under Shaq, if we hadn't sold away our pick we could have had both or a sharp shooting wing.

Guys like Chalmers could be there for us, Hasheem Theebet, Chris Douglas Roberts, Devon Hardin, Tyler Hansborough, DJ White. It looks like ATL really fleeced us with the JJ trade, they get a perennial AS, keep their own picks and get Horford, Shelden Williams (pick could have been Brandon Roy), & Marvin Williams (pick could have been either Deron Williams or Chris Paul) because the pick were protected for three years.
Figures with our luck.
 

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Bunch more guys declared. Memphis has both Antonio Anderson and Robert Dozier in without agents. Both are 2nd rounders at best.

Kansas has Chalmers in with no agent.

And Texas has both DJ Augustin and AJ Abrams in with no agent, Augustin is projected in the lottery.

grrr....I was hoping that DJ would fall out of the lottery, so that the Suns could pick him.:crossesfingers:
 

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grrr....I was hoping that DJ would fall out of the lottery, so that the Suns could pick him.:crossesfingers:

i believe augustine will be there for the suns, but don't believe in selecting undersized guards who are not considered to be quicksilver (like tj ford).
 

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Tywon Lawson in with no agent. Still awaiting Hansbrough and Ellington from UNC.

And Collison has still not declared with all the PG's in there's a lot of speculation Collison might stay at UCLA but I still expect him to declare.

I figure Lawson will pull out he's a very good college PG but he can't shoot well enough I think he'll be on the bubble for the first round and will go back to UNC.


The Italian guy Danilo something or other also declared.

I also hear that John Riek the 7 footer at prepschool that came out of nowhere last summer is going to declare. He's apparently draft eligible because of his age and that he's already graduated HS(foreign) and so with prepschool he satisfies the at least one year out of HS requirement.
 

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i believe augustine will be there for the suns, but don't believe in selecting undersized guards who are not considered to be quicksilver (like tj ford).
IMHO his ceiling could be Nash(at best), or MarK Jackson, Tim Hardway, Gary Payton. I think he will be a better point guard than than Derrick Rose, who is overrated. IMHO
 

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After Rose gets taken in the first two picks, the point guards are problematic. Lawson, Augustine, and Collison all showed they are just too small to play defense in the NBA. Granted, Rose is going to make a lot of guys look bad but none of these guys look like future stars. Chalmers had a good game against Rose due mostly to a poor game plan by Memphis, but he looks like a backup at best.

Westbrook is a combo guard who can play defense, but is not viewed as a natural PG. He is a good shooter, but not a "make your own shot" guy. He's likely to be a solid NBA guy, but nothing I've read suggests he's a likely heir to Nash.
 

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If JaVale McGee is there when the Suns pick, I hope they take him. He is young and very talented.
 

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Anthony Randolph.

I've been intrigued by what I've read about Anthony Randolph. He's projected to go in the top ten, but I expect the listing will be change a lot as guys are check out. What intrigues me most is that he may turn out to be a Prince type SF. Here is the Draft Express profile:

Although he continues to largely slip underneath the radar screen as far as national attention goes, few freshman have shown more glimpses of potential than LSU power forward Anthony Randolph.

It all starts with his physical tools…6-10 or 6-11, incredibly long, left-handed, fluid, quick, explosive off his feet, with great open-court speed…Randolph fits the bill and then some. He does have an extremely lanky frame, though (think Brandan Wright), one that might struggle to put on significant weight even down the road.

Skinny or not, Randolph wows you at times with the versatility he displays offensively. He’s a very good ball-handler for his size, able to grab a rebound and take the ball all the way down the floor (weaving through traffic impressively) and finish the play himself, or even create shots for himself in the half-court. His first step is excellent, and he has some basic jab-steps or wiggle moves that keeps his matchup guessing constantly as to what his next move will be. Although he’s left-handed, he seems to be just as dangerous going right, which is quite intriguing considering his size, youth, and the fact that he’s seemingly living purely off his instincts at this point. This ability to face up and attack his man off the dribble makes him a huge mismatch threat at the next level, especially as he continues to polish up his ball-skills, learns how to minimize his turnovers, and becomes a better finisher around the basket. He also has some basic (mostly finesse) moves he can execute with his back to the basket, but his lack of strength hinders him from being as much of a presence here as he could.

Randolph’s jump-shot needs lots of work, even if there are definitely some things to work with as he’ll show from time to time by knocking down a smooth mid-range jumper, sometimes coming off a pick and pop play. His mechanics are strange, though, like many left-handed shooters (especially from 3-point range), releasing the ball while almost standing sideways, not quite squaring his shoulders or elevating off the floor, and getting extremely poor results—just 2/16 from behind the arc on the year.

That wouldn’t be so bad if Randolph didn’t have as much of a tendency as he does to settle for bad shots and force out of control drives. His whole team seems to play incredibly selfish basketball, and Randolph is at times just as much a culprit as his shot-happy guards. He doesn’t seem to quite know his limitations at this point, settling for weak, off-balance, turn-around jumpers from mid-range, fading away from contact in the post, and generally showing poor shot-selection and a limited feel for the game. It’s not hard to tell that Randolph still has plenty of room to improve with everything that has to do with his fundamentals.

Where Randolph seems to need the most work, especially when considering how he’ll have to be used at the next level, in his defense. He gets pushed around in the post mercilessly; being unable to hold his spot on the block, and thus letting most big men just have their way with him as they please.

The problem here is that Randolph doesn’t seem to put up much resistance, giving up too much space in the post, not showing a great deal of fire fighting back against stronger players, and displaying a laid-back demeanor that is somewhat concerning at times. He gambles for steals, shows poor awareness on the perimeter, and isn’t always quite as active as you might hope. He clearly has the quickness and length to hedge screens and stay in front of his man, as well as the instincts to get after the ball and make his presence felt, but he doesn’t seem to quite know how at this point. With that said, it’s hard not to be impressed by the physical tools, reactivity and nose for the ball he shows coming up with blocks, getting in the passing lanes, grabbing offensive rebounds and more—you’d just like to see it happen more often. There seems to have been some improvement in his effort (particularly as a rebounder) since LSU switched coaches a few weeks ago, so we’ll have to see how this continues in the near future.

All in all, Randolph might be viewed as one of the more intriguing long-term prospects in this draft once you get past the top 5-6 names on most team’s boards. He’ll probably be viewed as the type of hybrid face the basket 4/3 that is becoming very much en vogue in the NBA these days (see: Shawn Marion, Travis Outlaw, Tyrus Thomas, etc) as a mismatch threat playing on a very up-tempo team. There are still a lot of kinks he needs to work out in his game before he gets there--both physically and mentally--but considering the fact that he won’t turn 19 until July, time is obviously on his side. From what we’ve been hearing for quite some time, there is a very good chance that he’ll be in the draft.

His biggest weakness (other than being very young) is that he is not strong enough to be a standard PF. He could very well slip if that's the case. But a 6"11" Prince type SF could be an interesting addition. It will all depend on how he does in the workouts.
 

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After Rose gets taken in the first two picks, the point guards are problematic. Lawson, Augustine, and Collison all showed they are just too small to play defense in the NBA. Granted, Rose is going to make a lot of guys look bad but none of these guys look like future stars. Chalmers had a good game against Rose due mostly to a poor game plan by Memphis, but he looks like a backup at best.

Westbrook is a combo guard who can play defense, but is not viewed as a natural PG. He is a good shooter, but not a "make your own shot" guy. He's likely to be a solid NBA guy, but nothing I've read suggests he's a likely heir to Nash.

Augustine also showed he is the smartest PG in the country, and is very hard to keep out of the lane. I like the way that D.J. put the Texas team on his back without Kevin Durant.
 

Russ Smith

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After Rose gets taken in the first two picks, the point guards are problematic. Lawson, Augustine, and Collison all showed they are just too small to play defense in the NBA. Granted, Rose is going to make a lot of guys look bad but none of these guys look like future stars. Chalmers had a good game against Rose due mostly to a poor game plan by Memphis, but he looks like a backup at best.

Westbrook is a combo guard who can play defense, but is not viewed as a natural PG. He is a good shooter, but not a "make your own shot" guy. He's likely to be a solid NBA guy, but nothing I've read suggests he's a likely heir to Nash.

Collison didn't declare afterall he's staying at UCLA.

Westbrook is an iffy shooter if he has his feet set he can make it and he's pretty good in midrange pull up jumpers but a lot of teams this year just dared him to shoot and he struggled. Watch any of the 3 USC games this year he missed jumper after jumper. Most of his points are in transition or off the offensive glass.

Great athlete but he needs to really improve his ball handling to play PG. The thing is he played PG in HS until he had a late growth spurt so he sees the floor better than Collison. Great kid very hard worker.
 

Irish

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I'm waiting anxiously for the combine stuff. The guy I'm most interested in is Chris Douglas Roberts. H tore up Westbrook and seems to have great body control and a nose for the basket.
 

HooverDam

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The Suns will probably go with a 3 or 5 in the first round I imagine. Last years first round pick (Tucker) was a freaking waste, and I don't ever expect him to be much. He didn't really fill the hole theyll soon have gaping at the 3 (and DJ is perhaps a bit too small to play the 3). So CDR could be a good pick there.

But I wanted to talk about the 2nd round. I think taking a Euro point guard would be a good idea there.

Check out Anton Ponkrashov:

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/antonponkrashov.html

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Anton-Ponkrashov-1056/

6'7, 205lbs! amazing size for a PG. That would help since he'll be paired with the smallish LB in the back court in the future if he worked out (and possibly DJ at the 3). Sounds like a natural PG who needs to work on going right (he's lefty!) and his 3 point shot. Apparently he's not terribly athletic or a great jumper, but neither is Steve Nash, or John Stockton. Being unathletic is probably more acceptable for a PG than at any other position.

I'm also interested in Goran Dragic. 6'4'' Slovenian PG, who they seem to be comparing to Tony Parker in some ways.

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/gorandragic.html

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Goran-Dragic-1025/
 

Irish

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If we are going to talk about late second roundrers, I'd like to suggest Jamar Butler of Ohio State:

His team stats at OSU were not exceptional at 43%, but he had 5.9 assists and a 2/1 assist to turnover ration. He shot 94.3% from the line. Atj 6'2" 200 he's decent sized for pass first PG.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jamar-Butler-1090/

All-Portsmouth Invitational Tournament, First-Team
April 15, 2008
One player who exceeded our expectations in certain areas was Jamar Butler, whose performance in his team’s 3-0 run earned him the tournament MVP. Butler’s athleticism looked a bit better in person than it did on tape, and that’s probably something we didn’t give him enough credit for in his previous scouting report. It’s not as if his athleticism blew us away, and we’d still consider him a below average athlete by NBA standards, but he’s a bit quicker than previously thought.

Butler struggled to start the tournament, looking to have some jitters in his first game, never really hitting his stride and getting into a comfort zone. He picked things up after that, though, and progressively improved with each passing game, finishing with 18 points and 5 assists in the final.

On the dribble drive, Butler showed the same shiftiness and craftiness he showed at Ohio State, but got into the lane a bit more frequently here, mostly off high screens or when his defender didn’t have his feet completely set. In the lane, he converted with lay-ups, finger rolls, and floaters at times, but didn’t show the vertical explosiveness to consistently finish.

Butler’s outside shot has long been considered one of his greatest assets, and that looked to be true here, as he hit an impressive 8-for-18 from behind the arc, on spot-up and pull-up shots alike, mostly coming around screens. He had a few outbursts during the tournament where he got hot and hit a few in a row.

Butler didn’t dish out very many assists here, but that’s a misleading way to look at his point guard abilities, as he did a good job bringing the ball up the court and initiated his team’s offense, which was an extremely unselfish one that frequently saw a handful of players with 3+ assists each game. He showed proficiency in the pick-and-roll as he did in college, when given the opportunity.

All in all, not much has really changed in regards to our opinion of Butler. His game is still what we thought it was when we scouted him in January, though his performance here does bring him one step closer to the NBA, as he was able to perform well in this setting. It will be interesting to see if he can continue to thrive at the Orlando pre-draft camp, which he’s virtually assured of being invited to. He’s definitely someone who could catch on as a back-up point guard in the NBA sometime down the road, and possibly even immediately in the right situation, such as Mario West’s with the Atlanta Hawks.
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NCAA Weekly Performers, 1/23/08-- Part One
January 24, 2008
After a strong sophomore season as Ohio State’s starting point guard, Jamar Butler was forced to take a backseat as a junior, moving to the off-guard position to make room for the highly-touted Mike Conley. Now a senior, with Conley off to the pros, Butler is back at his natural position, and has really stepped up for the Buckeyes. His production and efficiency are up across the board, and he’s leading the team in both scoring and assists. Among draft prospects in our database, Butler ranks fifth in assists per game, pure point guard ratio and assist to turnover ratio, and is the only prospect in the top-5 in all three categories.

As a point guard, Butler’s style could best be described as solid but unspectacular, as his primary focus is on managing his team’s offense while minimizing mistakes, not making many flashy plays. He has a very controlled way about his game, possessing strong ball-handling ability with an assortment of crossovers and behind-the-back moves, though he only uses them when absolutely necessary. He keeps the ball close to him and low to the ground, rarely committing a turnover from mishandling the ball. In the half-court, Butler is very much a pick-and-roll point guard, creating the majority of his offense and offense for others out of pick-and-roll and pick-and-pop situations. He reads these situations well and does a good job creating open shots for both himself and his teammates out of these situations. In addition, Butler also does a good job keeping the ball moving and maintaining spacing in the half-court, finding open three-point shots for his teammates consistently through good ball movement. Butler definitely has somewhat of a laid-back approach to his point guard game, as he doesn’t create much through drive-and-dishing, not spending much time in the lane in general on the offensive end. In transition, Butler keeps his head up and makes strong, precise passes, showing a nice knack for one-handed passes and alley-oop lobs.

As for his own offense, Butler is predominantly an outside shooter, with a staggering 63% of his field-goal attempts coming from behind the three-point arc. He’s shooting a strong 42% from behind the arc on the season, and has pretty close to textbook form on his shot. One thing to notice with his jump-shot is that Butler always gets his feet underneath him and almost never takes an off-balanced shot, while rarely taking contested shots either. He gets most of his outside shots by dribbling off high screens in pick-and-roll situations, pulling up smoothly in space where he consistently makes the defense pay. He also gets a fair share of his shots by spotting up, though he rarely will pull-up on his man in isolation situations.

In terms of attacking the basket, Butler doesn’t do much of that, almost never breaking his man down in isolation, as he doesn’t have an explosive first step he isn’t overly athletic in general. If Butler ever is taking the ball to the basket, it’s off a high screen, where he does a good job using hesitation dribbles to gain additional separation, changing speeds well once in the lane. At the rim, Butler gets very little lift off the floor, so he has trouble finishing over defenders, while he doesn’t possess noteworthy creativity either, so he’s not a great finisher at the rim in general. He relies on his right-handed floater in the lane often, which he hits fairly consistently, and shows good touch on. Butler shows good touch at the rim when he gets out in transition as well, where he doesn’t have to deal with as much defense at the basket. Butler doesn’t attack the rim much, but he pulls up from mid-range even less, with almost all of his offense coming within five feet of the basket or from behind the arc.

On the defensive end, Butler has some room for improvement, showing an inconsistent defensive stance, which can appear somewhat lackadaisical at times, and not really consistently applying himself as much as one would like. He doesn’t fight very hard through screens, and could show a lot more effort with his lateral movement, being beat by low-conference guards at times. He’ll never be a great defender, as he is average at best athletically, but he definitely can apply himself much more than he currently does. To his credit, he shows good awareness and doesn’t lose his man without the ball, while also making impact in the passing lanes with his hands.

A senior, Butler will be automatically eligible for the draft this year, and seems to be a perfect candidate for the Portsmouth pre-draft camp, where he can try to stand out more individually as a player. He has a lot of good things going for him, most notably his outside shot and style of managing offense, which is what many teams look for in a backup point guard, but he will need to show consistency from NBA three-point range and improved defense to have a real chance at that kind of role. At this stage, Butler likely projects as an undrafted free agent, though he should have ample chance to prove himself to NBA executives in pre-draft camps, workouts, training camps, and the summer league. If he doesn’t make it, he looks to have high-level potential for European basketball.
 

Russ Smith

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I can't read the whole thing it's insider but I guess ESPN is saying that Mayo's stock has shot up since he filed he's now rated 3rd behind Beasley and Rose on most boards.

The part I gather is they said alot of NBA people were impressed with Mayo's behavior at USC after busting Hackett's jaw he pretty much didn't display any behavioral problems like he did in HS. That seems to have convinced some people he matured quite a bit. I continue to read that NBA scouts think he was played outof position at USC he should have been playing PG not SG and that's another reason scouts are higher on him now.

Talented player but I have to say most of the year he showed very little to make you think he's ready to play PG in the NBA, he was way too careless with the ball.
 

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I can't read the whole thing it's insider but I guess ESPN is saying that Mayo's stock has shot up since he filed he's now rated 3rd behind Beasley and Rose on most boards.

The part I gather is they said alot of NBA people were impressed with Mayo's behavior at USC after busting Hackett's jaw he pretty much didn't display any behavioral problems like he did in HS. That seems to have convinced some people he matured quite a bit. I continue to read that NBA scouts think he was played outof position at USC he should have been playing PG not SG and that's another reason scouts are higher on him now.

Talented player but I have to say most of the year he showed very little to make you think he's ready to play PG in the NBA, he was way too careless with the ball.

Russ ....... I always enjoy and respect your posts on this board. I have seen Mayo play numerous times and I feel he would make an excellent SG
in the NBA. He is definitely athletic enough to eventually grow into a decent
PG, but I think he is better suited for the shooting guard spot. What a smooth, natural shooting touch he has. He might very well end up being the best NBA player of this very strong Freshmen class. Can't wait to see him play against the big boys.
 

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A year ago people projected Mayo to the first pick in this draft, so I'm not shocked he's ranked that high. Bayless did not have quite the same level of hype although he has been consistently viewed as a lottery pick from the start. But neither appears to be well suited to play PG.
 

Russ Smith

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Russ ....... I always enjoy and respect your posts on this board. I have seen Mayo play numerous times and I feel he would make an excellent SG
in the NBA. He is definitely athletic enough to eventually grow into a decent
PG, but I think he is better suited for the shooting guard spot. What a smooth, natural shooting touch he has. He might very well end up being the best NBA player of this very strong Freshmen class. Can't wait to see him play against the big boys.

Yep, and the stuff about him taking cash will have no impact on his NBA draft stock because I think most everyone already knew Mayo was on the take this is just confirming it.

He's a very skilled player he reminds me of a more athletic Billups.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Yep, and the stuff about him taking cash will have no impact on his NBA draft stock because I think most everyone already knew Mayo was on the take this is just confirming it.

He's a very skilled player he reminds me of a more athletic Billups.

i think an athletic billups/cassell is a good comparison. even when mayo's athleticism starts to slip i can see him becoming a very effective post scorer due to his size and girth.
 

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